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The Mikhail Grigorenko Thread Part II (assigned to Québec)

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Old
04-16-2013, 12:15 PM
  #176
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I wonder if the plan is to give him 1 more game in Buffalo and then move him to Rochester?

this whole thing is weird.

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04-16-2013, 12:19 PM
  #177
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I would imagine they're looking at it as to whether or not he can play in the AHL playoffs. I know that if I was Cassidy and he was assigned but ineligible for the post-season than I wouldn't be messing with my lines to accommodate him and tampering with any chemistry. Buffalo doesn't have anything to play for so its better to force feed him minutes against higher competition.

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Old
04-16-2013, 01:21 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
Well, I feel he didn't adjust to having John Scott as his linemate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
Well John Scott is such an offensive juggernaut. That's what I'm mad about. It's trivial but he should be playin with better line mates than that. I have no qualms with him and Hecht because it seemed like they did something right. But I just don't think he belongs with the Matt ellises an the John Scott's of the world as line mates.
Mikhail Grigorenko's four most common forward linemates at 5-on-5:

Jochen Hecht (58.0%)
Steve Ott (36.6%)
Drew Stafford (24.7%)
Marcus Foligno (23.7%)

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_...24+25+26+27+28

Can we now finally put to bed this myth that Grigorenko never got an opportunity with decent linemates, please?

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Old
04-16-2013, 01:28 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Mikhail Grigorenko's four most common forward linemates at 5-on-5:

Jochen Hecht (58.0%)
Steve Ott (36.6%)
Drew Stafford (24.7%)
Marcus Foligno (23.7%)

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_...24+25+26+27+28

Can we now finally put to bed this myth that Grigorenko never got an opportunity with decent linemates, please?
But 3 of those 4 haven't even been decent offensively.

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Old
04-16-2013, 01:33 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
But 3 of those 4 haven't even been decent offensively.
They're still far more competent offensively than Scott. Some would have you believe Grigorenko played a huge amount of his ES minutes with John Scott. That's just flat wrong.

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Old
04-16-2013, 02:00 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Mikhail Grigorenko's four most common forward linemates at 5-on-5:

Jochen Hecht (58.0%)
Steve Ott (36.6%)
Drew Stafford (24.7%)
Marcus Foligno (23.7%)

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_...24+25+26+27+28

Can we now finally put to bed this myth that Grigorenko never got an opportunity with decent linemates, please?
I was going to post the same thing.


Grigs struggles were his own.

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Old
04-16-2013, 02:03 PM
  #182
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I never said he had to deal with John Scott as his linemate 100% of his shifts, it just happened. It was something he hadn't been used to considering he was playing with highly skilled players at his age level in Russia and Quebec.

And to the other point, it seems like those 4 other players (Hecht, Ott, Stafford, and Foligno) were playing mostly defensive-oriented styles of play when Grigorenko was up with Buffalo. Clearly it was a tremendous learning curve for him as he is used to dominating the opposition most nights.

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Old
04-16-2013, 02:04 PM
  #183
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Grigs never got much of a chance with the premier talent on the team. Not saying he earned it but Ennis/Poms/Vanek are clearly a step above this year.

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Old
04-16-2013, 02:07 PM
  #184
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Again with excuses for Grigs. He consistantly lost 1 on 1 battles or didn't even engage in them. That has nothing to do with who he plays with, nothing. It was also an issue for him at times in juniors as reported by many of those that watched him there.

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Old
04-16-2013, 02:16 PM
  #185
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Plain and simple, Grigorenko will get opportunity with the Sabres when he is ready for that role. Right now he is not, he needs to get much stronger and faster to be a top 6 forward at the NHL level, that should come with time. He is still very lanky and probably only 190-195 pounds.


looking around the league at similar 6-3 centers the range from 210-230 for the most part, even if he played at 215 that would make a big difference physically for him


Last edited by 1972: 04-16-2013 at 02:23 PM.
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Old
04-16-2013, 02:16 PM
  #186
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At the Junior level, he was extremely effective on the PP. He never seemed to really get a chance to play on the PP in Buffalo despite us having one of the worst PP in the league. We should've at least given him a legitimate chance on the PPnit really couldn't have hurt.

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Old
04-16-2013, 02:20 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
I never said he had to deal with John Scott as his linemate 100% of his shifts, it just happened. It was something he hadn't been used to considering he was playing with highly skilled players at his age level in Russia and Quebec.

And to the other point, it seems like those 4 other players (Hecht, Ott, Stafford, and Foligno) were playing mostly defensive-oriented styles of play when Grigorenko was up with Buffalo. Clearly it was a tremendous learning curve for him as he is used to dominating the opposition most nights.
The learning curve may be more that he has to move his feet and compete for pucks regardless of who he's playing with.

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Old
04-16-2013, 03:10 PM
  #188
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Some 18/19 yr-olds are just that. Others are Gretzky or Crosby. Look at how the Leafs handled Kadri and the returns are much better this year as a result. I say don't rush Grigs.

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Old
04-16-2013, 03:21 PM
  #189
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Fans are rushing Grigs

He is 19 let him develop.

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Old
04-16-2013, 03:29 PM
  #190
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The learning curve may be more that he has to move his feet and compete for pucks regardless of who he's playing with.
This. I want the kid to succeed as much as the next guy but if he doesn't start doing this, he's not going to make it in the NHL like we need him to.

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04-16-2013, 03:32 PM
  #191
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This. I want the kid to succeed as much as the next guy but if he doesn't start doing this, he's not going to make it in the NHL like we need him to.
I don't understand how he's gotten this far in competitive hockey and a coach hasn't mentioned it to him. How you can play this game and decide you're not even going to try and compete in puck battles is just completely nonsensical to me. NHL hockey especially is basically just a giant puck battle, there's very little time and space available.

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04-16-2013, 03:49 PM
  #192
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I don't understand how he's gotten this far in competitive hockey and a coach hasn't mentioned it to him. How you can play this game and decide you're not even going to try and compete in puck battles is just completely nonsensical to me. NHL hockey especially is basically just a giant puck battle, there's very little time and space available.
Maybe I'm wrong, but because he was producing at a very good pace in the Juniors with the time and space allowed to him, no one ever said he was "doing it wrong". Then he gets a shot in the NHL with little time and space and he's simply not prepared for it. At this point in his development he needs to transfer from needing time and space to be effective, to being effective without the time and space. It will be a interesting road for him. I think he'll get there, it just may take 2-3 more years

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Old
04-16-2013, 03:54 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
I don't understand how he's gotten this far in competitive hockey and a coach hasn't mentioned it to him. How you can play this game and decide you're not even going to try and compete in puck battles is just completely nonsensical to me. NHL hockey especially is basically just a giant puck battle, there's very little time and space available.
He's Russian, so that's not really going to be a focus.
Most of the emphasis is placed on puck skills and skating.

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Old
04-16-2013, 04:00 PM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
I don't understand how he's gotten this far in competitive hockey and a coach hasn't mentioned it to him. How you can play this game and decide you're not even going to try and compete in puck battles is just completely nonsensical to me. NHL hockey especially is basically just a giant puck battle, there's very little time and space available.
There's a lot more time and space in European and junior hockey. The speed of the game and the decision-making, as well as the strength of regular NHLers, is something that a lot of young players struggle to acclimate to. It's not something that's special to Grigorenko.

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Old
04-16-2013, 04:01 PM
  #195
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Foot movement and movement in general is needed in the NHL. I don't care who is playing. You can argue it yes. But it just seems like the best players would keep moving not staying stationary per se.

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Old
04-16-2013, 04:28 PM
  #196
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He's Russian, so that's not really going to be a focus.
Most of the emphasis is placed on puck skills and skating.
This.

Kugryshev made that kind of comment when he played for Quebec. In Russia, young forwards are never taught to play well defensively and along the boards.

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Old
04-16-2013, 04:49 PM
  #197
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Patrick Roy says if Grigorenko is sent back to the QMJHL next season, he won't play for Quebec because he'll never be able to get a guarantee from Buffalo. So he prefers drafting another young player.

Quebec has a good chance of hosting the Memorial Cup 2015 so Roy probably hopes Grigorenko gets sent back and he can cash in on his return by trading him. If not, at least he'll have the chance to develop a player during two seasons before the Mem Cup.

http://www.radio-canada.ca/regions/q...igorenko.shtml

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04-16-2013, 06:36 PM
  #198
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Per Darcy, he is eligible for the Calder Cup playoffs. Good news.

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Old
04-16-2013, 06:42 PM
  #199
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Per Darcy, he is eligible for the Calder Cup playoffs. Good news.
Let's hope Darcy is correct ....

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04-16-2013, 07:42 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
Patrick Roy says if Grigorenko is sent back to the QMJHL next season, he won't play for Quebec because he'll never be able to get a guarantee from Buffalo. So he prefers drafting another young player.

Quebec has a good chance of hosting the Memorial Cup 2015 so Roy probably hopes Grigorenko gets sent back and he can cash in on his return by trading him. If not, at least he'll have the chance to develop a player during two seasons before the Mem Cup.

http://www.radio-canada.ca/regions/q...igorenko.shtml
Good on Roy.
I wouldn't want to deal with Regier and his indecisiveness either.


Also, this could possibly create an interesting situation.
If he was released outright, I believe he'd be eligible to play in the AHL next season.
It's a bit of a grey area to say the least since these CHL-NHL agreement is not public, but this is what I've heard before.

Of course, this doesn't apply if he's just traded or released and subsequently picked again in the Import Draft (see: Makarov).

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