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ANA-PIT Proposal

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Old
08-28-2006, 10:04 AM
  #26
Jaded-Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Hutz View Post
Pens have Malkin so...they should help other teams....is that the rationale here?
You forgot that we supposedly don't have any money so that automatically = we will give any and all players away for garbage, even the inexpensive ones. Afterall they will cost money some day. I really think that period where we had to give away players like Jagr for a bag of beans has made all fans of opposing teams on these boards idiots when it comes to the Pens and has produced the flurry of dumb Malkin/Pens trade proposals that litter these boards almost continuously. No team has as many dumb proposals thrown their way as the Pens.

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Old
08-28-2006, 11:26 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAF View Post
And we acquired Patrick Ehelechner (who is 20) via trade from SJ. He will play in Germany this season, but is likely to play in NA again in 07-08. There is no need for J.P. Lavasseur on the Penguins (at least this season).

He is almost 22!! (sept 23, 1984 birthday)

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Old
08-28-2006, 02:50 PM
  #28
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Any talks between Pitts. and Ana. would involve young D such as Beauchimen or young wingers, which the Ducks have in spades.

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Old
08-28-2006, 04:46 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varius View Post
Ok, seems this proposal wasn't a hit at all heh...oh well

However, can someone please explain how PIT doesn't need any G prospects in ther system? (Or answer my question about Sabourin maybe, that could clear the whole point up.)
Tey need Orpik and Malone in thier system far more than another goalie prospect. I mean this deal isnt close to being fair. You basicly create a much bigger problem than a lack of a goalie prospect if you remove these two players....
And BTW, how do you figure Malone is behind EC, Talbot etc on the depth chart????

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Old
08-28-2006, 08:23 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varius View Post
What do you guys think of this proposal ?

TO ANA:
Brooks Orpik
Ryan Stone

TO PIT:
Sean O'Donnell
J.P. Levasseur
3rd-round pick

FOR ANAHEIM:

- They save about 500K, and pickup a great young defender who can probably be their #3/4 guy for years to come. They won't exactly miss O'Donnel's leadership as they have Niedermayer/Pronger there.

- They pickup a great C prospect who I think would fit in their system nicely.


FOR PITTSBURGH:

- They get a decent G prospect, something they really don't have. The prospect they give up is a potential 2nd-line C, but right now is behind Crosby/Malkin/Talbot/Christenson on the depth charts an I don't see Crosby/Malkin not being #1 and #2 anytime soon.

- If Malkin plays up to at least half the hype he receives, I think the Pens have a good shot at the Playoffs (and then, who knows!). They are already blessed with a core of young defenders, who would probably benefit from O'Donnell's leadership and experience. He is almost always a plus (+/-) player as well and is solid in his own end aside from taking some bad penalties.

- They pickup a draft pick, which are never bad assets.

Thoughts ??

I can see Ducks' fans not liking it for giving up Levasseur (but I think McKee/Leighton are fine for now, while Giguere/Bryz are still both rather young - long as they get re-signed)

I can see Pittsburgh fans not liking it because Orpik is a popular player there...

Note: What's the status on Sabourin for PIT? He seems to have had a great year in the AHL, but HF doesn't list him on the Penguin's page ?? If they ve him, the deal might not make as much sense.
Now lets do a fair trade

TO ANA:
Brooks Orpik
Ryan Stone

TO PIT:
Dustin Penner
2nd-round pick

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Old
08-28-2006, 08:27 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MALKIN IS GOD !!!!!! View Post
Now lets do a fair trade

TO ANA:
Brooks Orpik
Ryan Stone

TO PIT:
Dustin Penner
2nd-round pick
not so fair...

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Old
08-28-2006, 08:40 PM
  #32
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I would give Souray for Orpik straight up...

Remember the six points game dudes???


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Old
08-28-2006, 11:35 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varius View Post
What do you guys think of this proposal ?

TO ANA:
Brooks Orpik
Ryan Stone

TO PIT:
Sean O'Donnell
J.P. Levasseur
3rd-round pick
Yet another garbage + a pick for our youngsters... yikes.

And why always with the pick? Its basically hitting the reset button on several years development spent on these guys. The Pens may be rebuilding, but that doesn't mean that they'll trade anyone for the right amount of draft picks.

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Old
08-29-2006, 04:23 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Cairns
Ehelechner
3rd rounder

for

Beauchemin
Konopka

See, it doesn't work.
Works on the Pens side.

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Old
08-30-2006, 01:52 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennTheFrog View Post
Yet another garbage + a pick for our youngsters... yikes.

And why always with the pick? Its basically hitting the reset button on several years development spent on these guys. The Pens may be rebuilding, but that doesn't mean that they'll trade anyone for the right amount of draft picks.
JP is far from garbage.

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Old
08-30-2006, 02:58 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyKiller View Post
JP is far from garbage.
7th rounder huh? it if smells like, sounds like it....

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Old
08-30-2006, 03:07 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAF View Post
We got Fleury (who is still 21) with the big club.

Sabourin was voted as the best goaltender in the AHL last season, but is no prospect anymore. I hope we do re-sign him. We also signed Andrew Penner to play in the AHL. And we acquired Patrick Ehelechner (who is 20) via trade from SJ. He will play in Germany this season, but is likely to play in NA again in 07-08. There is no need for J.P. Lavasseur on the Penguins (at least this season).
Ehelechner has got to have the most professional personal website as well. Beware the White Tiger!!!!

www.ehelechner.com/

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Old
08-31-2006, 01:36 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WpgPens View Post
7th rounder huh? it if smells like, sounds like it....
Really? I guess you've never heard of players like Luc Robitaille, Theoren Fleury and Adam Oates. The first two were picked very late in their respective drafts. Adams Oates wasn't even drafted. (There are plenty of other examples. These were just the first three that came to mind.)

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Old
08-31-2006, 06:53 PM
  #39
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- They get a decent G prospect, something they really don't have.
there is a guy named Fleury who might just fit the bill

thats like going to New Jersey 10 years ago and offering them Jocelyn Thibault for Brendan Morrison because they're lacking goaltending depth lol Fleury is a guy who doesn't need depth, he's got Thibault if an injury comes up and he's a suitable injury replacement so why give away a solid prospect and a good defenceman for a useless defenceman that would play on WBS, and Orpik who should be a top 4 defenceman

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Old
08-31-2006, 06:54 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by WpgPens View Post
Ehelechner has got to have the most professional personal website as well. Beware the White Tiger!!!!

www.ehelechner.com/
i completely forgot about that lol

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Old
08-31-2006, 07:09 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kick Save View Post
Really? I guess you've never heard of players like Luc Robitaille, Theoren Fleury and Adam Oates. The first two were picked very late in their respective drafts. Adams Oates wasn't even drafted. (There are plenty of other examples. These were just the first three that came to mind.)
Oh relax...

It was a comment about one player specifically, and I could make a list of late rounders that amounted to nothing at all that I still wouldnt be done posting it by next draft time.

Levasseur at best will be a career AHLer.

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Old
08-31-2006, 07:10 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Ry-Dogg View Post
there is a guy named Fleury who might just fit the bill

thats like going to New Jersey 10 years ago and offering them Jocelyn Thibault for Brendan Morrison because they're lacking goaltending depth lol Fleury is a guy who doesn't need depth, he's got Thibault if an injury comes up and he's a suitable injury replacement so why give away a solid prospect and a good defenceman for a useless defenceman that would play on WBS, and Orpik who should be a top 4 defenceman
Fleury is not a prospect anymore really...he's pretty much pegged in as their franchise starter

I still do think O'Donnell would be a help to PIT for the reasons I explained, but I guess I stand alone there. Either I overvalue him (though I never said he's a great D-man...), or you guys underrate him quite a bit.

Regardless, I admitted its a bad proposal when it seems people are higher on Stone than I would have thought, as well as the fact everyone seems to think JPL is garbage (I don't, but seems that's the consensus here).

So can the thread die now por favor ?

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Old
09-01-2006, 12:42 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by WpgPens View Post
Oh relax...

It was a comment about one player specifically, and I could make a list of late rounders that amounted to nothing at all that I still wouldnt be done posting it by next draft time.

Levasseur at best will be a career AHLer.
I am relaxed, but you need to re-read your original comment, rather than put a new spin on it. In case you've forgotten, you said: "7th rounder huh? it if smells like, sounds like it...."

There's only one reasonable interpretation of that comment: LaVasseur is not worth anything because he was picked in the 7th round. You made no attempt whatsoever to assess his talent. You belittled him simply because he was picked in the 7th round.

BTW, your comment that you " . . .could make a list of late rounders that amounted to nothing at all that I still wouldnt be done posting it by next draft time . . ." is asinine. Obviously, guys picked in the first round or two are much more likely to achieve success in the NHL than guys picked in the later rounds. If that weren't the case, there'd be little point in spending money on scouting.

Do you have a crystal ball or are you just prescient? Otherwise, I'd love to know how you determined that "Levasseur at best will be a career AHLer." If I'm not mistaken, Kyle Woodward rated LaVasseur the best goalie in last year's draft crop. I'm sure you'll have some retort about how he doesn't know anything. If so, I'm wondering what your credentials are?

One final thought: I would have loved to see your assessment of Dustin Penner prior to last season. After all, he's a Manitoba kid, so you probably had a lot more chance to see him than LaVasseur (who played in the Q). I'm sure you were able to predict that he would be successful in the NHL.

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Old
09-01-2006, 04:30 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WpgPens View Post
7th rounder huh? it if smells like, sounds like it....
Yeah every player drafted late is garbage..

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Old
09-01-2006, 05:25 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Kick Save View Post
I am relaxed, but you need to re-read your original comment, rather than put a new spin on it. In case you've forgotten, you said: "7th rounder huh? it if smells like, sounds like it...."

There's only one reasonable interpretation of that comment: LaVasseur is not worth anything because he was picked in the 7th round. You made no attempt whatsoever to assess his talent. You belittled him simply because he was picked in the 7th round.

BTW, your comment that you " . . .could make a list of late rounders that amounted to nothing at all that I still wouldnt be done posting it by next draft time . . ." is asinine. Obviously, guys picked in the first round or two are much more likely to achieve success in the NHL than guys picked in the later rounds. If that weren't the case, there'd be little point in spending money on scouting.

Do you have a crystal ball or are you just prescient? Otherwise, I'd love to know how you determined that "Levasseur at best will be a career AHLer." If I'm not mistaken, Kyle Woodward rated LaVasseur the best goalie in last year's draft crop. I'm sure you'll have some retort about how he doesn't know anything. If so, I'm wondering what your credentials are?

One final thought: I would have loved to see your assessment of Dustin Penner prior to last season. After all, he's a Manitoba kid, so you probably had a lot more chance to see him than LaVasseur (who played in the Q). I'm sure you were able to predict that he would be successful in the NHL.
Ok, I really don't think you're too relaxed being so argumentative.

Never even heard of Kyle Woodward so taking that into account I wouldn't value his opinion very high.

Btw to complete the saying. If it smells like it, sounds like it, looks like it, it probably is it. (feel free to replace "it" with any expletive you deem worthy)

No new spin either, oh oh, wait.....nope sorry my friend no new spin. I was referencing the comment regarding Levasseur directly, although cynically.

Regarding my comment in retort, you brought up the short list of star players that made it big despite being a late rounder, not I. So don't try brushing off a valid response to your original comment.

Precient, me? Naw, I like the term clairvoyant mucho bettero, and those skills don't really work in this realm of reality. I wouldn't draw upon those abilities for a ho-hum prospect such as this guy. Can't say I really have any legitmate credentials per se. Following hockey closely and being a very dedicated fan of the sport since the mid 70's I have seen a lot I must admit. Draft picks come and go, most don't amount to anything, especially late rounders. That's just fact my friend that has been proven over and over again. Don't have to be a so-called hockey journalist or analyst, whatever, to know the game inside and out.

Dustin Penner is a rare find, his work ethic and pure dedication is what got him where is now. Very rarely will you see a situation like his. I really give him a lot of credit, good job Dustin!!!!

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Old
09-02-2006, 02:15 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WpgPens View Post
Ok, I really don't think you're too relaxed being so argumentative.

Never even heard of Kyle Woodward so taking that into account I wouldn't value his opinion very high.

Btw to complete the saying. If it smells like it, sounds like it, looks like it, it probably is it. (feel free to replace "it" with any expletive you deem worthy)

No new spin either, oh oh, wait.....nope sorry my friend no new spin. I was referencing the comment regarding Levasseur directly, although cynically.

Regarding my comment in retort, you brought up the short list of star players that made it big despite being a late rounder, not I. So don't try brushing off a valid response to your original comment.

Precient, me? Naw, I like the term clairvoyant mucho bettero, and those skills don't really work in this realm of reality. I wouldn't draw upon those abilities for a ho-hum prospect such as this guy. Can't say I really have any legitmate credentials per se. Following hockey closely and being a very dedicated fan of the sport since the mid 70's I have seen a lot I must admit. Draft picks come and go, most don't amount to anything, especially late rounders. That's just fact my friend that has been proven over and over again. Don't have to be a so-called hockey journalist or analyst, whatever, to know the game inside and out.

Dustin Penner is a rare find, his work ethic and pure dedication is what got him where is now. Very rarely will you see a situation like his. I really give him a lot of credit, good job Dustin!!!!
Look, I don't think you know too much about the whole Levasseur-draft debacle. Allow me to inform you:

Many draft rankings had JP going in the 1st round, being one of the top, if not the top, goaltenders available. His stock dropped towards the end of the '04-'05 season when his team (Rouyn-Noranda) traded for what was supposed to be a backup goalie. The supposed backup, Sylvain Michaud dazzled in the second half, winning the starting job. As a result of this, JP's playing time dropped considerably, hence the drop in stock.

It really is amazing to me, and others, that no team even took a chance on him in the 4th-6th rounds. Well, it seems as though the Ducks got a steal with JP. And you're probably wrong about him being "a career AHLer at best". He is projected to be a starting goalie in this league and is currently Anaheim's top prospect in net (some prefer giving that title to NCAA standout Dave McKee).

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