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All Encompassing Tortorella..ella..ella..eh..eh...and Glen Cigar Thread Part III

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Old
04-16-2013, 09:46 PM
  #401
M Gaz
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Oh please stop with the bs. The players play the coaches system. Have you played organized sports? Have you played to at least the college level? Because I have. If a coach asks you to do something or play a certain system, you do it. You certainly don't go out and do whatever you want. This team plays a dump and chase offense. They play a grind it out game. Are you not seeing that or are you being naive like someone else here? I guess you were satisfied with the puck possession in the last 5 minutes of the game. They were getting beaten to pucks, couldn't carry the puck in, and any time they might have been able to carry it in or make a quick outlet/short pass they dumped it in instead. They play to the tune of what torts wants. It hasn't worked ALL YEAR. It's magnified even more now with 6 games left.
If the players are able to carry it in, they will carry it in. He doesn't stand there on the bench saying "You'll get benched if you even try to carry the puck in." The coach's plan isn't some almighty code. If the players are losing races to the puck, then it's their issue, not the coach's. You guys almost seem like you don't want to blame the team, or even Sather for ****ing with last year's roster.

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04-16-2013, 09:46 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by NashtyAttack View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't the players the ones playing the game? And they've played hockey before, right? I have a feeling that MAYBE the blame should be on them. I know, it's crazy-talk.
In any job I have ever had (and being a professional hockey player is a job), morale and productivity whether good or bad, was directly tied to management and their decisions. That's not to say that you don't get bad apples once in a while - people with an overblown sense of entitlement, or people who are lazy, but they are usually the exception if there is a good management team in place. just sayin'

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04-16-2013, 09:49 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by NashtyAttack View Post
If the players are able to carry it in, they will carry it in. He doesn't stand there on the bench saying "You'll get benched if you even try to carry the puck in." The coaches plan isn't some almighty code. If the players are losing races to the puck, then it's their issue, not the coach's.
Very simple reason as to why they lose races to the puck: (Along the boards)

They're told to collapse towards the middle of the ice in the D zone. OK, fine. Naturally, however, the opposing forwards will be more on the outside, and closer to the walls. Because the Rangers are all in the middle of the ice, when there's a loose puck, and it's between an opposing player who has been along the wall all along, or a Ranger trying to race back from the middle of the circles, who do you think is winning the race?

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04-16-2013, 09:49 PM
  #404
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Pierre Mcguire was dumbfounded as to why Nash wasn't getting 1st PP unit playing time and it's a shame none of us could fill him on how our stubborn, helpless coach needs to send messages to players to the detriment of our team in order to maintain his egotistical coaching style.

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04-16-2013, 09:51 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by NYR1967 View Post
In any job I have ever had (and being a professional hockey player is a job), morale and productivity whether good or bad, was directly tied to management and their decisions. That's not to say that you don't get bad apples once in a while - people with an overblown sense of entitlement, or people who are lazy, but they are usually the exception if there is a good management team in place. just sayin'
Then if Torts IS the problem, then why don't the guys step up and try to take charge? The players need to take matters into their own hands, if coaching is really an issue. Call it mutiny, call it whatever, but it'll diagnose the problem.

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04-16-2013, 09:54 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
Very simple reason as to why they lose races to the puck: (Along the boards)

They're told to collapse towards the middle of the ice in the D zone. OK, fine. Naturally, however, the opposing forwards will be more on the outside, and closer to the walls. Because the Rangers are all in the middle of the ice, when there's a loose puck, and it's between an opposing player who has been along the wall all along, or a Ranger trying to race back from the middle of the circles, who do you think is winning the race?
Then Callahan or one of the other "leaders" needs to open their damn mouth in practice or a 1 on 1 conversation with the coach. I don't see how that could make things any worse.

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04-16-2013, 09:56 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by NashtyAttack View Post
Then if Torts IS the problem, then why don't the guys step up and try to take charge? The players need to take matters into their own hands, if coaching is really an issue. Call it mutiny, call it whatever, but it'll diagnose the problem.
The players should step up and overthrow the coach? What world are you living in. The players on this team are not of that character. They are for the most part blue collar, coachable players. They will adhere to the coaches system. You will not see Callahan go to Sather and tell him Torts needs to be fired They will play for Torts until Torts is fired. He needs to go.

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04-16-2013, 09:59 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by NashtyAttack View Post
Then if Torts IS the problem, then why don't the guys step up and try to take charge? The players need to take matters into their own hands, if coaching is really an issue. Call it mutiny, call it whatever, but it'll diagnose the problem.
I don't have an answer for that. I don't know. And just to be clear, I don't think the players are completely blameless either. I just find it very hard to believe that the attitude of all 23 men on that roster is "**** it. Who cares?", unless there is another very serious issue that we aren't privy to.

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04-16-2013, 09:59 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by NashtyAttack View Post
If the players are able to carry it in, they will carry it in. He doesn't stand there on the bench saying "You'll get benched if you even try to carry the puck in." The coach's plan isn't some almighty code. If the players are losing races to the puck, then it's their issue, not the coach's. You guys almost seem like you don't want to blame the team, or even Sather for ****ing with last year's roster.
You are partially correct and partially very very wrong...

1) A coaches system is not an almighty code ( here is where you are partially correct )

2) When players dont attempt to at the very least try to play withing the parameters of the code, they will get benched......or traded or sent down. ( here is where you are very wrong ).

A coaches system is the structure that a team uses to play a game at a professsional level. Do you think the Devils throughout the last 10 years ( minus the last one or two seasons ) just happen to be really lucky in being constantly at the top of the leauge in allowig the fewest goals against ?? Do you think it just happens to be a coincidence that the devils also averaged some of the lowest number of goals scored in those years...........nope, it was a system?

Take a look at the NYR.......terrible in terms of goals for........very good in allowing the some of the fewest goals in the leauge.....

Its called a system.......and torts' system isnt working in terms of allowing us to score goals........PERIOD!!

A team can be blamed, but a coaches system ( as well as sullivans horrible powerplay system ) is what dictates how the players play the game......and ultimately leads to success or failure.

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04-16-2013, 10:00 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
The players should step up and overthrow the coach? What world are you living in. The players on this team are not of that character. They are for the most part blue collar, coachable players. They will adhere to the coaches system. You will not see Callahan go to Sather and tell him Torts needs to be fired They will play for Torts until Torts is fired. He needs to go.
I'm not talking about overthrowing anybody. I'm saying that someone should step up and talk to the coaches about altering the defensive gameplan a bit. They respect the blue collar guys like Callahan and Girardi and the way they play. It's not like they won't listen.

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04-16-2013, 10:01 PM
  #411
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I'm not talking about overthrowing anybody. I'm saying that someone should step up and talk to the coaches about altering the defensive gameplan a bit. They respect the blue collar guys like Callahan and Girardi and the way they play. It's not like they won't listen.
If you really want to catch the organizations ear, Hank should speak up.

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04-16-2013, 10:03 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by noupf View Post
You are partially correct and partially very very wrong...

1) A coaches system is not an almighty code ( here is where you are partially correct )

2) When players dont attempt to at the very least try to play withing the parameters of the code, they will get benched......or traded or sent down. ( here is where you are very wrong ).

A coaches system is the structure that a team uses to play a game at a professsional level. Do you think the Devils throughout the last 10 years ( minus the last one or two seasons ) just happen to be really lucky in being constantly at the top of the leauge in allowig the fewest goals against ?? Do you think it just happens to be a coincidence that the devils also averaged some of the lowest number of goals scored in those years...........nope, it was a system?

Take a look at the NYR.......terrible in terms of goals for........very good in allowing the some of the fewest goals in the leauge.......i

Its called a system.......and torts' system isnt working in terms of allowing us to score goals........PERIOD!!

A team can be blamed, but a coaches system ( as well as sullivans horrible powerplay system ) is what dictates how the players play the game......and ultimately leads to success or failure.
The key here is the Rangers are emulating the Devils. The problem is, when's the last time the Devils won a cup? The game has changed. It is faster. It is more goal oriented. Yet the rangers play a system that would win a cup in the late 90's/early 2000's. I love how we have Kel V calling people out for trying to claim that they know better than Tortorella...when in reality it has nothing to do with people claiming they know more...it has come down to a mass group of people seeing something that Tortorella can't. What's the expression?...forcing a square peg in a round hole....

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04-16-2013, 10:03 PM
  #413
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Whatever, I've said what I feel and explained it the way I feel I should. If you don't agree, or you think I'm an idiot, that's fine. We agree to disagree.

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04-16-2013, 10:08 PM
  #414
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Whatever, I've said what I feel and explained it the way I feel I should. If you don't agree, or you think I'm an idiot, that's fine. We agree to disagree.
No one is saying to not like Torts. No one is saying the players weren't at fault tonight. The players did not show up, however, their system still restricts them from scoring goals. Did anybody else read the Flyers lineup? Especially the 6 defensemen? I mean if these guys were such blue chip prospects don't you think they would've kept JVR rather than deal him for a mediocre Luke Schenn? Or that they wouldn't had to pick up project after project? And only after they went through multiple journeymen who sustained injury after injury did they finally revert to no name defensemen. They should have been peppering this defense and Mason. Were they that concerned about carrying the puck in? But I truly believe it has gotten to the point where the rangers player hockey sense has been altered...aka their reactions and thinking has changed. When they carry the puck they so easily fall back on dump and chase. It is due to a whole season of this dump and chase system mentality.

FIRE TORTS

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04-16-2013, 10:08 PM
  #415
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Is anyone tired of hearing the whole "Gaborik being traded proves Torts is staying" bs? There are more logical and realistic why he got traded. Oh and I'm pretty sure they got Clowe to address depth and toughness. Not because he's a "Torts type of guy."

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04-16-2013, 10:11 PM
  #416
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Then Callahan or one of the other "leaders" needs to open their damn mouth in practice or a 1 on 1 conversation with the coach. I don't see how that could make things any worse.
Some of them just seem okay with their play this year... Callahan has shown nothing in PGT games after disgusting loses. "We need to play better." No ****ing duh, Ryan and that starts with you...

On Torts end... I just don't see how a motivational coach doesn't prepare his team for a hockey game until the 3rd period. It's pathetic. The only good first period we've had was the game against Pittsburgh. This team is heading for a first round sweep. And a lot of that blame lies on Torts. Too much young talent on this team rift now to be playing the way they are. Completely passive.

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04-16-2013, 10:11 PM
  #417
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Hey, remember when the deadline moves were supposed to strengthen the Rangers through depth and secondary scoring?

3-2-1 in their last six games, the Rangers have scored 14 goals in that span. That comes out to an average of 2.33, which is exactly what their season average is. Good enough for 27th in goals per game.

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04-16-2013, 10:13 PM
  #418
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Someone of them just seem okay with their play this year... Callahan has shown nothing in PGT games after disgusting loses. "We need to play better." No ****ing duh, Ryan and that starts with you...

On Torts end... I just don't see how a motivational coach doesn't prepare his team for a hockey game until the 3rd period. It's pathetic. The only good first period we've had was the game against Pittsburgh. This team is heading for a first round sweep. And a lot of that blame lies on Torts. Too much young talent on this team rift now to be playing the way they are. Completely passive.
This is one of the biggest underlying issues ALL YEAR. This team has not been ready to play all year. What has Torts been saying to them? Are we still blaming a shortened camp? How many times have we NOT scored first. It's sad.

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04-16-2013, 10:14 PM
  #419
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This is one of the biggest underlying issues ALL YEAR. This team has not been ready to play all year. What has Torts been saying to them? Are we still blaming a shortened camp? How many times have we NOT scored first. It's sad.
I remember us not scoring first a lot last year too. Difference is, when that happened last year, I was never once worried about it.

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04-16-2013, 10:16 PM
  #420
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Maybe we'll call up Kreider and give him some minutes against a mediocre Panthers team. Give a little more slack on the leash and put the whip away and let Kreider go out there and play his game.

Nahhhh let's keep putting the mediocre offense out there so we can watch paint dry against the panthers on thursday.

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04-16-2013, 10:17 PM
  #421
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I remember us not scoring first a lot last year too. Difference is, when that happened last year, I was never once worried about it.
Even then it was stressful.

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04-16-2013, 10:18 PM
  #422
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Maybe we'll call up Kreider and give him some minutes against a mediocre Panthers team. Give a little more slack on the leash and put the whip away and let Kreider go out there and play his game.

Nahhhh let's keep putting the mediocre offense out there so we can watch paint dry against the panthers on thursday.
even if we did, he'd be benched for a rookie mistake or he'd be sent back to the A after that game.

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04-16-2013, 10:22 PM
  #423
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even if we did, he'd be benched for a rookie mistake or he'd be sent back to the A after that game.
He'd get two shifts in the 1st period, one shift in the 2nd period, and then benched in the 3rd period. Then he'd ride the bus back to connecticut of friday. All because he was breathing out of the wrong nostril

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04-16-2013, 10:23 PM
  #424
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even if we did, he'd be benched for a rookie mistake or he'd be sent back to the A after that game.
I'd rather he play 15+ minutes a night and actually learn something. Same with Miller. More time for development and a full training camp should work wonders for them.

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04-16-2013, 10:24 PM
  #425
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Hey, remember when the deadline moves were supposed to strengthen the Rangers through depth and secondary scoring?

3-2-1 in their last six games, the Rangers have scored 14 goals in that span. That comes out to an average of 2.33, which is exactly what their season average is. Good enough for 27th in goals per game.
Feel me once shame on me



Fool me a million times, well shame on the rest of the fans who thought these were great moves, because this was expected.






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