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Long-term roster-building discussion (Full contract chart in post #1)

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Old
04-12-2013, 04:18 PM
  #376
Waffle Fries
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
But that's 200k in cap space, not salary - pal. While Burkle has deep pockets, don't think that 750k just for that player not to play in your lineup, and then only to replace that player for someone who's only 125-200k cheaper makes ANY sense. If they're that worried about saving 125-200k in cap space, there's other places to skimp. While Glass hasn't been great... he hasn't been that bad either.
I'm not saying Glass will or will not be bought out, but I will say the salary that would need to be paid will have nothing to do with it. Burkle does have deep pockets, $3 billion deep. Both Burkle and Mario are committed to putting the best possible product on the ice. If it takes paying 750k to do that, they will.

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04-14-2013, 08:38 AM
  #377
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Post I made on the main board;

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...9&postcount=54

Thoughts?

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Old
04-14-2013, 08:50 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Post I made on the main board;

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...9&postcount=54

Thoughts?
we aren't signing Dupuis for 2 million. 3 would be a good deal for us.

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04-14-2013, 08:57 AM
  #379
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We'd still be able to fit him in. Just. But I think he'd at most ask for $2.5m.

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04-14-2013, 09:02 AM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
We'd still be able to fit him in. Just. But I think he'd at most ask for $2.5m.
If he tests FA, someone is offering him 4M within the first few hours of free agency opening up. No doubt in my mind.

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04-14-2013, 09:48 AM
  #381
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Dupuis is hard to predict. I thought he could have easily got more than 1.5 million last time he hit UFA but he chose to re-sign for that discounted price instead. He seems to like it here and that seems to be a big factor with him. He probably deserves 3 million but I think he is one of those guys that likes it here enough to stay for less than that.

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Old
04-14-2013, 09:54 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Dupuis is hard to predict. I thought he could have easily got more than 1.5 million last time he hit UFA but he chose to re-sign for that discounted price instead. He seems to like it here and that seems to be a big factor with him. He probably deserves 3 million but I think he is one of those guys that likes it here enough to stay for less than that.
what I'm saying is I think 3M would be him staying here for less. His UFA worth is definitely move than 3M.

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04-14-2013, 10:10 AM
  #383
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Safe prediction is $2.25-3M in Pittsburgh, $3.25-4M elsewhere.

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04-14-2013, 10:12 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
what I'm saying is I think 3M would be him staying here for less. His UFA worth is definitely move than 3M.
Yep. It's not just the caphit/salary. Other teams will offer him a longterm contract. We can't do that. Too much roster turnover that will go on the next few years.

My hunch this offseason is that Cooke walks in free agency, TK is traded and Dupuis takes a big contract elsewhere. Retaining Iggy is a must. Morrow would be a nice Cooke replacement. JJ at 2.1 mil is also a great asset to have next season.

Gets tricky beyond that. Retaining those players leaves us with little cap room to fill out the 4th line and 6/7 D.

Hopefully Iggy will take less than 5 on a multi-year deal. And Morrow will sign on the cheap.

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04-14-2013, 10:36 AM
  #385
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Yep. It's not just the caphit/salary. Other teams will offer him a longterm contract. We can't do that. Too much roster turnover that will go on the next few years.

My hunch this offseason is that Cooke walks in free agency, TK is traded and Dupuis takes a big contract elsewhere. Retaining Iggy is a must. Morrow would be a nice Cooke replacement. JJ at 2.1 mil is also a great asset to have next season.

Gets tricky beyond that. Retaining those players leaves us with little cap room to fill out the 4th line and 6/7 D.

Hopefully Iggy will take less than 5 on a multi-year deal. And Morrow will sign on the cheap.
we will have a lot to talk about this off-season. So will everyone else I guess. Buyouts and trades will certainly add some excitement as everyone tries to get under the new cap.

question: are teams allowed to use the compliance buyouts on players and then immediately re-sign them? Because that would be a hell of a loophole for players on the last year of their deals just to get under the big dip this year before it starts to come back up.

"Hey Brooks, we want to buy you out, then sign you again for less money. You get paid both the buyout salary and this new salary, and we get to keep you for the lower cap hit. Deal?"

Also, if you sign someone to a one year deal, could you immediately extend them with the deal that starts the year after? Could a player get bought out, sign a 1 year deal, then sign an extension all in the same day?

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04-14-2013, 11:09 AM
  #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
we will have a lot to talk about this off-season. So will everyone else I guess. Buyouts and trades will certainly add some excitement as everyone tries to get under the new cap.

question: are teams allowed to use the compliance buyouts on players and then immediately re-sign them? Because that would be a hell of a loophole for players on the last year of their deals just to get under the big dip this year before it starts to come back up.

"Hey Brooks, we want to buy you out, then sign you again for less money. You get paid both the buyout salary and this new salary, and we get to keep you for the lower cap hit. Deal?"

Also, if you sign someone to a one year deal, could you immediately extend them with the deal that starts the year after? Could a player get bought out, sign a 1 year deal, then sign an extension all in the same day?
Nope.

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Old
04-14-2013, 12:17 PM
  #387
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I haven't ever used the CapGeek calculator, and I don't think it allows one to input "projected" salaries for guys who are unsigned. So anyway, here is a cut-and-paste of my line-up for next year. As far as I can see, we do have enough money by moving TK + Orpik. Also, based on my line-up: it includes Glass for now (but I want to find a cheaper 13th forward and actually play Vitale and Jeffrey regularly), re-signing Adams at the slight bump (he may actually re-sign for less), and re-signing Cooke and Dupers at arbitrary values (Cooke may sign for less if we gave him 2 or 3 years, and Dupers won't swing for the fences, but I bumped him up to a reasonable number). We can easily afford an extra $500k for Dupers (if he even demands that) by finding a replacement for Glass at half the price.

I also included Iginla at $4.5 million, which should be close to what we should get him for. I also showed us re-signing Eaton as a cheap depth #7/8. I would prefer to keep Martin: he has to stay, has performed great, and we need him for his offense/transition game. Also, Jokinen is a great fill-in for us now, but it will be easy to trade him at only 70% of his salary (CAR still eats 30%), and should at least be able to get a 6th rounder, if not even bit better than that.

PLAYER SALARY

Sidney Crosby 8,700,000
Evgeni Malkin 8,700,000
James Neal 5,000,000
Jarome Iginla 4,500,000*
Chris Kunitz 3,750,000
Pascal Dupuis 2,500,000*
Brandon Sutter 2,100,000
Matt Cooke 1,800,000*
Tanner Glass 1,100,000
Beau Bennett 900,000
Craig Adams 700,000*
Dustin Jeffrey 800,000*
Joe Vitale 550,000


Paul Martin 5,000,000
Kris Letang 3,500,000
Matt Niskanen 2,300,000
Brian Dumoulin 900,000
Simon Despres 850,000
Robert Bortuzzo 750,000*
Mark Eaton 700,000*
Deryk Engelland 565,000


Marc-Andre Fleury 5,000,000
Tomas Vokoun 2,000,000

* denotes "projected" salary for guys who are UFAs/RFAs

Total Salaries: $62,655,000

Free Cap Space: $1,635,000


Line-up based on the above:

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Neal-Malkin-Iginla
Cooke-Sutter-Bennett
Adams-Jeffrey-Vitale

(Glass or other 13th)

Dumoulin/Despres-Letang
Dumoulin/Despres-Martin
Niskanen-Bortuzzo

(Engelland + Eaton as #7/8) - pairings could be reconfigured based on performance/chemistry/etc.

Fleury
Vokoun

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Old
04-14-2013, 12:34 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
I haven't ever used the CapGeek calculator, and I don't think it allows one to input "projected" salaries for guys who are unsigned.
It actually does if I understand your thinking. You can click "create" and that lets you add a player by inserting the name and salary that you want.


Edit: Here it is from CapGeek- I accidentally left in Jokinen but I actually like that lineup.

FORWARDS
James Neal ($5.000m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / Jarome Iginla ($4.500m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($2.500m)
Jussi Jokinen ($2.100m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Dustin Jeffrey ($0.688m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Matt Cooke ($1.800m)
Tanner Glass ($1.100m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Simon Despres ($0.840m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Brian Dumoulin ($0.900m) / Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Matt Niskanen ($2.300m) / Deryk Engelland ($0.567m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.578m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)
OTHER
Buyout: Brooks Orpik ($0.000m)



SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,013,333; BONUSES: $85,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,371,667


Last edited by Beauner: 04-14-2013 at 12:41 PM.
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Old
04-16-2013, 08:57 PM
  #389
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So everybody is content with Vokoun as a two million dollar back up? I'm certainly not suggesting you shouldn't be. I'm just mildly surprised nobody is pointing to that 2G spot as a quick way to shave off an extra 1M in cap. Especially with some promising youngsters aboard. The reason I'm curious is that Smith looks to be bailing on the Yotes, and we will need a cheap replacement. I thought of Vokoun and figured he'd be available. Yet I see him in every one of these projected line ups. Just thought I'd ask and get a better understanding of the situation.

Cliff's Notes: what's the scoop with Vokoun?

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04-16-2013, 09:01 PM
  #390
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The extra million is more than worth the insurance policy.

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04-16-2013, 09:01 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
So everybody is content with Vokoun as a two million dollar back up? I'm certainly not suggesting you shouldn't be. I'm just mildly surprised nobody is pointing to that 2G spot as a quick way to shave off an extra 1M in cap. Especially with some promising youngsters aboard. The reason I'm curious is that Smith looks to be bailing on the Yotes, and we will need a cheap replacement. I thought of Vokoun and figured he'd be available. Yet I see him in every one of these projected line ups. Just thought I'd ask and get a better understanding of the situation.

Cliff's Notes: what's the scoop with Vokoun?
Budja just signed for 1.6m. 2 for A pretty good back up isn't that crazy. They needed a good insurance policy for Fleury after last years playoffs

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04-16-2013, 09:56 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
So everybody is content with Vokoun as a two million dollar back up? I'm certainly not suggesting you shouldn't be. I'm just mildly surprised nobody is pointing to that 2G spot as a quick way to shave off an extra 1M in cap. Especially with some promising youngsters aboard. The reason I'm curious is that Smith looks to be bailing on the Yotes, and we will need a cheap replacement. I thought of Vokoun and figured he'd be available. Yet I see him in every one of these projected line ups. Just thought I'd ask and get a better understanding of the situation.

Cliff's Notes: what's the scoop with Vokoun?
As of right now, Vokoun isn't going anywhere. He had a few ugly outings this season but has been very valuable in the locker room regardless of whether he's starting or not.

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Old
04-16-2013, 10:07 PM
  #393
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Here's a question I never thought I'd seriously ask:

Would you rather sign Iginla for 2 years at $5m per or Dupuis for 2 years at $3m per?

I LOVE Iginla, but Dupuis might be the smarter move as he's absolutely perfect for this team and keeps improving. Plus it would save cap space to hold onto Murray.

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Old
04-16-2013, 10:26 PM
  #394
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FORWARDS
Beau Bennett ($0.900m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) ($0.900m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Jarome Iginla ($5.000m)
Pascal Dupuis ($2.500m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Matt Cooke ($1.500m)
Dustin Jeffrey ($0.688m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Craig Adams ($0.675m)
DEFENSEMEN
Simon Despres ($0.840m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Scott Harrington ($0.894m)
Matt Niskanen ($2.300m) / Douglas Murray ($2.000m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.701m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)
OTHER
Buyout: Brooks Orpik ($0.000m)
Buyout: Jussi Jokinen ($0.000m)
Buyout: Tanner Glass ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,238,833; BONUSES: $307,500
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $2,368,667

How does this seem? Id love to keep juice but i dont think we have space for him.
Enough space for a spare forward.

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04-17-2013, 10:14 PM
  #395
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Magnus paajarvi

I know over the summer we won't be able to sign all the players we got in trades... But I would love for the pens to acquire this guy which I think could flourish here.. So question is would it take to get him and would we be intrested....

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04-17-2013, 10:16 PM
  #396
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Sure, give the Oilers Orpik. Their defense almost makes him look good.

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04-17-2013, 10:16 PM
  #397
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I know over the summer we won't be able to sign all the players we got in trades... But I would love for the pens to acquire this guy which I think could flourish here.. So question is would it take to get him and would we be intrested....
I don't see the point. I'm sure someone like RRP will strike me down, but I don't think MPS would get a long rope with Disco.

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04-17-2013, 10:24 PM
  #398
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i was actually thinking the other day about the Oilers signing Dupuis to a ginormous contract so he could mentor PVR et al

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Old
04-17-2013, 10:28 PM
  #399
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Off Season 2013

Who do we expect to loose from tns current roster?

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04-17-2013, 10:30 PM
  #400
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check out this thread. lots of good discussion about the off-season.

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