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All Encompassing Tortorella..ella..ella..eh..eh...and Glen Cigar Thread Part III

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:24 PM
  #426
JeffMangum
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I just don't think this is a player problem. Tortorella looks like he has lost the team.

We have 4 top-3 defenseman. A great depth defender in Stralman. 3 good centers, talent and size at wing, and solid utility players in Boyle, Powe, Hagelin, and Asham.

Maybe I'm wrong. The only way to find out whether it's a player or coach problem, though, is to fire the coach.

If it is a player problem...well, the purging needs to begin.

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04-16-2013, 11:25 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Hey, remember when the deadline moves were supposed to strengthen the Rangers through depth and secondary scoring?

3-2-1 in their last six games, the Rangers have scored 14 goals in that span. That comes out to an average of 2.33, which is exactly what their season average is. Good enough for 27th in goals per game.
I'd be moving on to a much bigger question (I already did, a while ago). What's wrong with the way the team plays this team game?

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:28 PM
  #428
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Feel me once shame on me



Fool me a million times, well shame on the rest of the fans who thought these were great moves, because this was expected.





Actually, if I did that, it would be shame on me.

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04-16-2013, 11:31 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
I just don't think this is a player problem. Tortorella looks like he has lost the team.

We have 4 top-3 defenseman. A great depth defender in Stralman. 3 good centers, talent and size at wing, and solid utility players in Boyle, Powe, Hagelin, and Asham.

Maybe I'm wrong. The only way to find out whether it's a player or coach problem, though, is to fire the coach.

If it is a player problem...well, the purging needs to begin.
How many players have come in and sucked since Torts took over outside of gaborik?.. Those guys are gone, new guys are here, and we still can't score goals. Whats the one constant if guys are being brought in and shipped out? Torts.

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04-16-2013, 11:31 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by NYR1967 View Post
Actually, if I did that, it would be shame on me.
Exactly. lol.

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04-16-2013, 11:32 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
How many players have come in and sucked since Torts took over outside of gaborik?.. Those guys are gone, new guys are here, and we still can't score goals. Whats the one constant if guys are being brought in and shipped out? Torts.
Another constant: Glen Sather.

Both of them need to go. Ugh.

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04-16-2013, 11:35 PM
  #432
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No amount of complaining would ever get Sather fired, so it's not even worth the breath. He has to retire eventually .

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04-16-2013, 11:36 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Another constant: Glen Sather.

Both of them need to go. Ugh.
And the constant of Mister Sather won't be going anywhere. Because of baby Dolan who loves him. Mediocrity is ok with Glen and Baby Dolan. Just keep filling those seats at premium prices.

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04-16-2013, 11:37 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by 17futurecap View Post
No amount of complaining would ever get Sather fired, so it's not even worth the breath. He has to retire eventually .
He will be the next Castro. He will go on and on. He will never go away unfortunately. Please Glen GET LOST. RETIRE.

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04-16-2013, 11:39 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Another constant: Glen Sather.

Both of them need to go. Ugh.
I have to agree with you there, I know he's done OK recently, but he's had 13 years.....

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04-16-2013, 11:39 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
I just don't think this is a player problem. Tortorella looks like he has lost the team.

We have 4 top-3 defenseman. A great depth defender in Stralman. 3 good centers, talent and size at wing, and solid utility players in Boyle, Powe, Hagelin, and Asham.

Maybe I'm wrong. The only way to find out whether it's a player or coach problem, though, is to fire the coach.

If it is a player problem...well, the purging needs to begin.
That's one way of looking at it, but there's another way, too.

- No #1 center/playmaker

- No #1 offensive defenseman

- Richards playing poorly

- Clowe channeling Taylor Pyatt

- Offensive zero 4th liner in Boyle playing top 9 minutes

- Practically no offense from the blueline what so ever

- Pathetically inept power play

I don't know if it is the players or the coach. I can't help but think that it is both.

Maybe the problem is perched in a skybox far above the rink, puffing on a big fat cigar, continuing to prove, as he has brilliantly for about 20 years now, that he hasn't even the slightest idea of how to competently perform his job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trilobyte View Post
I'd be moving on to a much bigger question (I already did, a while ago). What's wrong with the way the team plays this team game?
I started mulling that one over about 10 years ago. Didn't take long to figure out the answer: not enough talent. Problem is, the man tasked with finding the solution to that question still hasn't been able to figure it out.

When you just don't have the players to compete, you don't have a realistic change of winning.

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04-16-2013, 11:40 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
I just don't think this is a player problem. Tortorella looks like he has lost the team.

We have 4 top-3 defenseman. A great depth defender in Stralman. 3 good centers, talent and size at wing, and solid utility players in Boyle, Powe, Hagelin, and Asham.

Maybe I'm wrong. The only way to find out whether it's a player or coach problem, though, is to fire the coach.

If it is a player problem...well, the purging needs to begin.
I don't see the talent. This may very well be a bottom 5 forward corps on paper and on results (evidently by low GF). This team has 4 decent forwards (Stepan, Nash, Callahan, Hagelin), unknown commodities (Zuccarello mainly) and garbage/proven career underachievers after that (Boyle, Pyatt, Powe, Asham, Clowe, Brassard, Richards). The definition of mediocre.

The defense is probably top 10 on paper. But the lack of competent 3rd defense pairing hinders this down from the elite tier.

Goalies are the only bright spots. Hank is the best in the world and Marty is one of the better backups. They carry this team.

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04-16-2013, 11:40 PM
  #438
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And when Sather does finally retire, he will be allowed to handpick his successor, and Dolan won't hold him accountable either. And the cycle will go on, and on, and on....

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:42 PM
  #439
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T-O-R-T-S has to GO

speaking of replacements.......I would settle for anyone right now as long as Torts is gone. Is Blind Monkey available? Because I would think he'd know more about Offense and PP than our current

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:43 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
That's one way of looking at it, but there's another way, too.

- No #1 center/playmaker

- No #1 offensive defenseman

- Richards playing poorly

- Clowe channeling Taylor Pyatt

- Offensive zero 4th liner in Boyle playing top 9 minutes

- Practically no offense from the blueline what so ever

- Pathetically inept power play

I don't know if it is the players or the coach. I can't help but think that it is both.

Maybe the problem is perched in a skybox far above the rink, puffing on a big fat cigar, continuing to prove, as he has brilliantly for over a decade now, that he hasn't even the slightest idea of how to competently perform his job.
Well, yeah, that's where the change needs to occur. I've resigned myself to the fact that Sather will be here as long as he wants, though.

FWIW, I think Stepan has been a #1 center/playmaker this season, and I think the lack of offense from the D directly correlates to Tortorella's 'system'. They don't get points because the puck never gets back to the point, and when it does, they don't shoot. Any defenseman can shoot, and the ones we have aren't even poor in that facet, aside from Girardi, they just need to get it to the net. The lack of a #1 catalyst on the D does sting (pun?), though.

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04-16-2013, 11:43 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I don't see the talent. This may very well be a bottom 5 forward corps on paper and on results (evidently by low GF). This team has 4 decent forwards (Stepan, Nash, Callahan, Hagelin), unknown commodities (Zuccarello mainly) and garbage/proven career underachievers after that (Boyle, Pyatt, Powe, Asham, Clowe, Brassard, Richards). The definition of mediocre.

The defense is probably top 10 on paper. But the lack of competent 3rd defense pairing hinders this down from the elite tier.

Goalies are the only bright spots. Hank is the best in the world and Marty is one of the better backups. They carry this team.
I think Brassard has been a bright spot, especially on the PP.. I agree with pretty much everyone else, and its sad because Richards was absolutely on fire (2nd half/playoffs) just less than a year ago.

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:44 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by NashtyAttack View Post
If the players are able to carry it in, they will carry it in. He doesn't stand there on the bench saying "You'll get benched if you even try to carry the puck in." The coach's plan isn't some almighty code. If the players are losing races to the puck, then it's their issue, not the coach's. You guys almost seem like you don't want to blame the team, or even Sather for ****ing with last year's roster.
I considered posting this exactly before I read it and I decided against it because he seemed hopeless. I guess I'd be mad too if I actually thought the coach was saying, "You'll get benched if you even try to carry the puck in. You have tons of space? Dump and chase anyway! I like that better!"

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04-16-2013, 11:44 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I don't see the talent. This may very well be a bottom 5 forward corps on paper and on results (evidently by low GF). This team has 4 decent forwards (Stepan, Nash, Callahan, Hagelin), unknown commodities (Zuccarello mainly) and garbage/proven career underachievers after that (Boyle, Pyatt, Powe, Asham, Clowe, Brassard, Richards). The definition of mediocre.

The defense is probably top 10 on paper. But the lack of competent 3rd defense pairing hinders this down from the elite tier.

Goalies are the only bright spots. Hank is the best in the world and Marty is one of the better backups. They carry this team.
I don't know why I even bother, but Brassard has been very good since coming here. And Clowe has been OK. Not great, but not horrible.

Otherwise, though, I see where you're coming from. I think the potential is there, though.

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04-16-2013, 11:46 PM
  #444
Kel Varnsen
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
Very simple reason as to why they lose races to the puck: (Along the boards)

They're told to collapse towards the middle of the ice in the D zone. OK, fine. Naturally, however, the opposing forwards will be more on the outside, and closer to the walls. Because the Rangers are all in the middle of the ice, when there's a loose puck, and it's between an opposing player who has been along the wall all along, or a Ranger trying to race back from the middle of the circles, who do you think is winning the race?
You're conflating O zone strategy with D zone strategy. There's a whole neutral zone in between the two.

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04-16-2013, 11:47 PM
  #445
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If Torts gets fired do we ever see Kel again?

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04-16-2013, 11:48 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
And when Sather does finally retire, he will be allowed to handpick his successor, and Dolan won't hold him accountable either. And the cycle will go on, and on, and on....
Gorton won't be any better imo.

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:52 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I don't see the talent. This may very well be a bottom 5 forward corps on paper and on results (evidently by low GF). This team has 4 decent forwards (Stepan, Nash, Callahan, Hagelin), unknown commodities (Zuccarello mainly) and garbage/proven career underachievers after that (Boyle, Pyatt, Powe, Asham, Clowe, Brassard, Richards). The definition of mediocre.

The defense is probably top 10 on paper. But the lack of competent 3rd defense pairing hinders this down from the elite tier.

Goalies are the only bright spots. Hank is the best in the world and Marty is one of the better backups. They carry this team.
wrong post, sorry

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:53 PM
  #448
Kel Varnsen
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Pierre Mcguire was dumbfounded as to why Nash wasn't getting 1st PP unit playing time and it's a shame none of us could fill him on how our stubborn, helpless coach needs to send messages to players to the detriment of our team in order to maintain his egotistical coaching style.
Well he logged the third most PP time of forwards, so that's first grouping. Perhaps there was some strategy to get Nash up against the Flyers number twos... but not that's not possible right? Or some other reasonable explanation? Nah, it's more likely the guy with a cup and a jack adams award is just an idiot.

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04-16-2013, 11:54 PM
  #449
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watching teh Kings/Sharks game.....2 goals scored by SJ in less than minute. Goals that the Rangers would never EVER score, especially on a team like the Kings with Quick in net.

It's a SYSTEM Failure........the Talent and Skill with the players is there. No we're not on the same level skillwise as the Pens nor Hawks, nor Kings. But we have more than enough where we shouldn't be struggling to buy a Goal, which is the case night in and night out. It is clearly a SYSTEMIC issue. So Clear, Cut, and Dry

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04-16-2013, 11:54 PM
  #450
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
snip....snip

I started mulling that one over about 10 years ago. Didn't take long to figure out the answer: not enough talent. Problem is, the man tasked with finding the solution to that question still hasn't been able to figure it out.

When you just don't have the players to compete, you don't have a realistic change of winning.
I do agree about Sather. He gets accolades for being a sharp trader, a good portion of which are required due to UFA signing blunders. To be completely above board and on the level, I was excited when Gomez and Drury were signed. To my credit, I hated the Redden signing from day one and onward.

Still, the Sather factor being undeniable, I still hold with my belief that this team's talent should be doing better. It's what I see on the ice, just so blah.

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