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Phoenix LXXIV: Be Seeing You

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Old
04-16-2013, 02:45 PM
  #601
Llama19
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Best article yet...

"Glendale says it will solicit bids to manage its arena. That’s a laudable precaution. But transparency does have its risks. The NHL is asking too much for the Coyotes, so potential buyers want a subsidy from the city. That’s been hidden in the management fee so far. But if the city establishes an honest price for the management fee, where is it going to hide the subsidy?"

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/insiders/ro...e-the-subsidy/

Be seeing you!

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04-16-2013, 02:52 PM
  #602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
Best article yet...

"Glendale says it will solicit bids to manage its arena. That’s a laudable precaution. But transparency does have its risks. The NHL is asking too much for the Coyotes, so potential buyers want a subsidy from the city. That’s been hidden in the management fee so far. But if the city establishes an honest price for the management fee, where is it going to hide the subsidy?"

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/insiders/ro...e-the-subsidy/

Be seeing you!
Free cupcakes for the first 5000 fans buying tickets.

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Old
04-16-2013, 03:08 PM
  #603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
Best article yet...

"Glendale says it will solicit bids to manage its arena. That’s a laudable precaution. But transparency does have its risks. The NHL is asking too much for the Coyotes, so potential buyers want a subsidy from the city. That’s been hidden in the management fee so far. But if the city establishes an honest price for the management fee, where is it going to hide the subsidy?"

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/insiders/ro...e-the-subsidy/

Be seeing you!
Hmmmmm. Seems everybody gets there info / questions off of HFB. I remember asking that question ~100 posts back.

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Old
04-16-2013, 03:20 PM
  #604
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Hmmmmm. Seems everybody gets there info / questions off of HFB. I remember asking that question ~100 posts back.

I think you meat 1,000,000 posts back.....

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04-16-2013, 04:28 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Oh aye? Was his Mentor Tommy Scallen? A Minnesota native who at one time owned the Ice Capades & Harlem Globetrotters, original owner of the Vancouver Canucks circa 1970/74? Orchestrated a stockplay with a medical company called Medicor & wound up getting thrown in the joint, his sorry ass then Deported from Canada?..... makes sense.
Boy there is a name from the very distant past! Tom Scallen and then the infamous Bob Short! Scallen was the epitome of the street hustler, always looking for another venture/scam! Finally all caught up with him.

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04-16-2013, 05:55 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post

Had they had half a brain between the two of them and were indeed set on Phoenix to begin with, they'd have moved into the old Arizona War Vets Memorial Arena on the State Fair Grounds, renovated & retro-fitted it, gone & got themselves some lunch bucket hard hat hockey players & gone Old School. Packed the joint. Built the brand, a loyal following. Then & only then going to Scottsdale or possibly on the Fair Grounds building a new barn.
Its been 20 years since the Suns left the Vets Memorial Arena, but I seem to recall that that wasn't a nice part of town. Anyone from Phoenix care to clear that up?

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04-16-2013, 05:58 PM
  #607
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This may be a bit open ended, but I have a question about how the Coyotes got to Phoenix in the first place. I was on the east coast at the time, with limited interest in the business aspect of the NHL. But, I remember that there was some interest in Mpls/St Paul about the Jets moving there. Northwest Airlines had something to do with it, because there was some buzz about the "Northwest Jets." It seems, in my rather fuzzy memory, that there were potential owners (I don't remember the names), and I forget which Municipality was working on the situation, but an arena deal fell through, and then the only landing spot was in Phoenix?

Can someone fill in the details for me? If there are links to news articles, that's great, too.
You have a good memory. In addition to what Killion and Mesamonster have responded, I can add this to the early part of the saga that led the Jets to Glendale: Burke wanted the Jets to play in Target Center in Minneapolis, but he asked the moon of the Mpls. City Council, and like the Bloomington council before with Norm Green, they refused to turn into bankers for a hockey franchise, so the deal collapsed. At least one of the city council members had wanted an understanding that Mpls. city support would come with the team being named the Minneapolis Jets, or at least have the name Minneapolis in it, which would have been a disaster trying to market to St. Paul hockey fans, who don't consider themselves any kind of suburb to Mpls. But you're right about the idea of the name Northwest Jets. It was sports columnist Charlie Walters of the St. Paul Pioneer Press, a former pitcher with the Twins, who first reported this. Northwest Airlines had been a sponsor of the North Stars - some might remember that big rubber airplane that'd squeeze its way out of the Zamboni chute and onto the ice before games in the latter years. The idea was that Northwest would become a bigger sponsor - so big, in fact, that the franchise would be named after them, the Northwest Jets. And here's an intriguing thing for Winnipeg fans. Burke initially suggested the team would be open to playing a few of its games back in Winnipeg each year, although under a Minneapolis/or Minnesota/or Northwest name, not Winnipeg's. If he meant it, I think it would have been a nice gesture to a wounded fanbase, although I wish for their sake he would have just left the team in Manitoba where it belonged. Could that have worked and let Winnipeg fans at least enjoy some NHL hockey? You'd think it wouldn't last many seasons, given the potential revenue-producing disparity between the Target Center and Winnipeg Arena, but remember that Target Center was going to have to split some of that revenue stream between the Timberwolves and Jets. Could it work like the Kansas City-Omaha Kings did for a while, where two cities shared a franchise? Or Philly and Pittsburgh sharing the Steelers/Eagles during the Depression/war years? Don't know, but I would have liked to see Winnipeg not stripped of the team they way they were. In the end, in May, 1995, when Minneapolis wouldn't give Burke what he wanted, it being too late to do his due diligence to see where else he might want the franchise to land, he decided the team would play one more year in the Peg, giving fans there a full year to give the team a send-off, and that last memorable playoff series where they surprised the powerful Red Wings a couple times. Burke didn't keep the team long, and the rest, as they say, is history and duly recorded in these pages.

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04-16-2013, 05:59 PM
  #608
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Its not in a good area, they host the state and county fairs there. Its about NW 6 or so miles miles or so from downtown Phoenix.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
Its been 20 years since the Suns left the Vets Memorial Arena, but I seem to recall that that wasn't a nice part of town. Anyone from Phoenix care to clear that up?

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04-16-2013, 06:02 PM
  #609
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Yes, its an interesting thing to consider. Its just possible PKP's playing hardball with Bettman & the NHL, though to what extent if at all is difficult to imagine let alone ascertain. He clearly wants an NHL franchise and in a big way. As QC is app the same size as Winnipeg, I cant imagine the league would want to ding him for much more than what they paid including the Relo Fee, though I suppose they might tack on a bit more.
It gets tossed around here a lot that PKP may/is/will play hardball with the NHL. Where does this come from? Is it just something people throw out or is there any source/link/real information that would indicate that thats the case?

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04-16-2013, 06:18 PM
  #610
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It gets tossed around here a lot that PKP may/is/will play hardball with the NHL. Where does this come from? Is it just something people throw out or is there any source/link/real information that would indicate that thats the case?
I have often said that I'd be surprised if Quebecorp/PKP had any interest in moving a franchise into the old facility. However, I have no idea what NHL content is worth to a media corporation. Maybe it's a substantial amount. Otherwise, why park a team in a building that lacks modern revenue producing capabilities?

Also, my understanding is that Quebecorp's lease costs a lot more with an NHL team. Something along the lines of an additional $30MM up front in naming rights, plus an extra $2MM per year. There doesn't appear to be any need for Quebecorp to rush into anything.

Wait a minute... this isn't the Quebec thread. [/discontinue]

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04-16-2013, 06:32 PM
  #611
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They'll take it when it's available. I'm sure they wouldn't risk passing up on a franchise and end up stuck without one later on.

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Old
04-16-2013, 06:33 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
I have often said that I'd be surprised if Quebecorp/PKP had any interest in moving a franchise into the old facility. However, I have no idea what NHL content is worth to a media corporation. Maybe it's a substantial amount. Otherwise, why park a team in a building that lacks modern revenue producing capabilities?
The new TVA SPORT channel has lost 20millions in the last year. With a team in Quebec, it would be a huge profit for this channel.
So yes PKP would lose some money in the old Colisee, however it is not a big deal since he is already losing a lot $$ elsewhere


Last edited by Matrix78: 04-16-2013 at 06:38 PM.
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Old
04-16-2013, 06:46 PM
  #613
Killion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
It gets tossed around here a lot that PKP may/is/will play hardball with the NHL. Where does this come from?
Pure speculation aqib.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
I have often said that I'd be surprised if Quebecorp/PKP had any interest in moving a franchise into the old facility. ...There doesn't appear to be any need for Quebecorp to rush into anything.
Could well be the case.

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The new TVA SPORT channel has lost 20millions in the last year. With a team in Quebec, it would be a huge profit for this channel.
So yes PKP would lose some money in the old Colisee, however it is not a big deal since he is already losing a lot $$ elsewhere
So basically it would just be a wash. Whatever he loses on the arena he'll make back on the media side of the equation, then once the new buildings up & running, be showing a nice profit for years to come. So sure, as CF suggests, why rush it?

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04-16-2013, 06:57 PM
  #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Pure speculation aqib.



Could well be the case.



So basically it would just be a wash. Whatever he loses on the arena he'll make back on the media side of the equation, then once the new buildings up & running, be showing a nice profit for years to come. So sure, as CF suggests, why rush it?
Well there is the danger of never getting a team that could be speeding up things. An available NHL franchise doesnt happen every year. Plus his communication stategy is all based on getting an NHl team at some point. This will give him content for his sport TV channel, his mobile branch content, his papers.

Getting an NHL secure is paramount for him.

Plus this PKP is playing hardball thing is all speculation coming from this board.

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04-16-2013, 07:32 PM
  #615
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Well there is the danger of never getting a team that could be speeding up things. An available NHL franchise doesnt happen every year. Plus his communication stategy is all based on getting an NHl team at some point. This will give him content for his sport TV channel, his mobile branch content, his papers.

Getting an NHL secure is paramount for him.

Plus this PKP is playing hardball thing is all speculation coming from this board.
I couldn't have said it better myself

Danger of never getting a team back, or see the project delayed, + increase cost.
With a team, yeah he would swap loses from the channel to the Colisee but he would make money from all other contents too

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04-16-2013, 07:38 PM
  #616
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Well there is the danger of never getting a team that could be speeding up things. An available NHL franchise doesnt happen every year. Plus his communication stategy is all based on getting an NHl team at some point. This will give him content for his sport TV channel, his mobile branch content, his papers.

Getting an NHL secure is paramount for him.

Plus this PKP is playing hardball thing is all speculation coming from this board.
Danger? Quebecorp isn't on the hook for debt service on construction of the arena. They don't appear to be in any danger at all. They have a very generous lease at the new arena without an NHL team. Maybe the communication strategy was to use the possibility of an NHL team to get a great deal on a new arena.

I find it easy to believe getting a team is paramount for fans but I wouldn't be so quick to project that desire on a corporation. Do you have a market report or study on the value of NHL content in Quebec, and how much of that revenue Quebecorp can reasonable expect to capture (ie- not streams they have to report and share with the NHL)? Without that, I don't think there can be an informed discussion about this. If you have one, post it in QC Thread

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04-16-2013, 08:32 PM
  #617
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With the Sac Kings vote being delayed, does this extend the verdict for the Yotes?

http://www.sacbee.com/2013/04/16/534...-nba-vote.html

Otherwise we'll hear more rhetoric for the gallery of the prospective wannabe owners. After all, what's another........two weeks?

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04-16-2013, 08:50 PM
  #618
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Why does one ask, if one already portends to know the future?


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Originally Posted by Mightygoose View Post
With the Sac Kings vote being delayed, does this extend the verdict for the Yotes?

http://www.sacbee.com/2013/04/16/534...-nba-vote.html

Otherwise we'll hear more rhetoric for the gallery of the prospective wannabe owners. After all, what's another........two weeks?

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Old
04-16-2013, 10:20 PM
  #619
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On Sportsnet, the Insiders just said:

The NHL and the potential owners will be negotiating a lease (together) in the next 2 weeks. They will be using Seattle as the threat for relocation.

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04-16-2013, 10:29 PM
  #620
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On Sportsnet, the Insiders just said:

The NHL and the potential owners will be negotiating a lease (together) in the next 2 weeks. They will be using Seattle as the threat for relocation.
I hope this means that the Yotes are likely going to relocate to Seattle

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04-16-2013, 10:30 PM
  #621
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With the Sac Kings vote being delayed, does this extend the verdict for the Yotes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by majicman View Post
Why does one ask, if one already portends to know the future?
I quite enjoy Mightygoose's use of rhetorical devices in his posts, be it allusion, analogies, the odd similie, a few well sprinkled diacopes.... Much as you yourself have just very trickily mirrored majicman.... parlour tricks.... that the best you got? Some World Class Magicians & Seers in these here parts. Best be minding your P's & Q's Rookie.

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04-16-2013, 10:37 PM
  #622
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With the Sac Kings vote being delayed, does this extend the verdict for the Yotes?

http://www.sacbee.com/2013/04/16/534...-nba-vote.html

Otherwise we'll hear more rhetoric for the gallery of the prospective wannabe owners. After all, what's another........two weeks?

It's fortnight around here, please.

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Old
04-16-2013, 10:43 PM
  #623
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I think you meat 1,000,000 posts back.....
Whats a few zeros between friends

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Old
04-16-2013, 10:50 PM
  #624
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It's fortnight around here, please.
Correct #2. I think its time Rover introduced itself to the rebellious Mightygoose. A fortnight in a coma with an entirely new memory implant should do the trick very nicely indeed.

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04-16-2013, 10:56 PM
  #625
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Correct #2. I think its time Rover introduced itself to the rebellious Mightygoose. A fortnight in a coma with an entirely new memory implant should do the trick very nicely indeed.
I think Llama's running the Rovers, isn't he? (Not that I'd be using anything so ~low tech~.)

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