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Old
04-16-2013, 11:46 PM
  #176
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It all depends what type of deals you can get. I think the market will be harsh on secondary guys looking for big pay days this offseason, with the cap going down and all. It's also quite possible solid players will be bought out of their deals. You'll not be getting bargains but you could maybe get some fair value deals this FA. If Wings can get Quincey and Samuelsson dumped and add a little $ to the pile, they could get two big secondary contributors and basically be in the same spot cap wise. Then add a D partner for Kronwall and the team would be vastly improved.

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Old
04-17-2013, 07:06 AM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuick View Post
There's a difference between adding size and getting bigger. Franzen is the biggest guy in our top 6 and he's basically a teddy bear. Horton is the same way.

I'm confused which route you guys are talking about when you want size. There's a massive difference between a Horton (tall/skill), a Clarkson (plays bigger than his size), and a Torres (speed / strength).

I suppose we would be happy with any of those. Clarkson will make undeserved bank in free agency though.

That's probably the smarter route. I don't think any of the UFA's right now are going to solve any of our long-term problems, just band-aids. It's a big risk if we strike out the following year though.
And how Babcock will want these guys to play once they're here. He's big on finishing checks, but he's also big on just being willing to sacrifice your own body and get to the dirty areas. It's part of the reason I could see Penner turning it around a bit here: he wouldn't be asked to be the "mean and tough" big guy, just a big guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Have we not learned this lesson yet? Never rely on FA ever.
It's still an avenue for bettering the team, and you have to decide if it's worth spending money/roster space now or later. I'm not sold that the musical chairs with moving guys out this year and signing available UFA is going to make that much of a difference. Might be better just to roll with what we have, and wait for a better crop.

This doesn't exclude pursuing trades, and I'm clearly advocating for giving the kids playing time to let them develop next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
It all depends what type of deals you can get. I think the market will be harsh on secondary guys looking for big pay days this offseason, with the cap going down and all. It's also quite possible solid players will be bought out of their deals. You'll not be getting bargains but you could maybe get some fair value deals this FA. If Wings can get Quincey and Samuelsson dumped and add a little $ to the pile, they could get two big secondary contributors and basically be in the same spot cap wise. Then add a D partner for Kronwall and the team would be vastly improved.
I just don't see a lot out there that gets me excited about adding them to the Wings. If someone significant gets bought out, I'd be all for going after that player, but teams aren't going to be thrilled with the idea of losing assets and cash for essentially nothing. I think it's more likely we see more trades than buyouts, if teams are having that hard of a time managing the cap.

There are a lot of guys on the market who would be curious to see in the wings, who I like as players, but none that I really see as difference makers. Right now I think we're a bit short on difference makers, and the most likely place for us to find that right now is either through a trade, or just letting the kids play.

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04-17-2013, 05:49 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I just don't see a lot out there that gets me excited about adding them to the Wings. If someone significant gets bought out, I'd be all for going after that player, but teams aren't going to be thrilled with the idea of losing assets and cash for essentially nothing. I think it's more likely we see more trades than buyouts, if teams are having that hard of a time managing the cap.

There are a lot of guys on the market who would be curious to see in the wings, who I like as players, but none that I really see as difference makers. Right now I think we're a bit short on difference makers, and the most likely place for us to find that right now is either through a trade, or just letting the kids play.
I rarely get excited over players in free agency barring guys like Parise and Semin, but at the same time a couple of smaller additions along with the kids gaining experience could make a big impact together. Some of the best signings are often the unheralded ones filling a need. We'll need to wait out the playoffs and see what's out there first before we know.

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04-18-2013, 12:20 AM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
And how Babcock will want these guys to play once they're here. He's big on finishing checks, but he's also big on just being willing to sacrifice your own body and get to the dirty areas. It's part of the reason I could see Penner turning it around a bit here: he wouldn't be asked to be the "mean and tough" big guy, just a big guy.
True, Penner does throw his body around quite a bit. He's not the ideal top line guy but if Datsyuk wants someone to 'pull the piano' on his line, I'd rather Penner than Abdelkader. I think he'll get a reasonable contract compared to Clarkson and others.

Horton would be just a big body, but he's really similar to Franzen in that regard. Would be a bit redundant to have both but it would be a good plan B.

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Old
04-18-2013, 09:33 AM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
I rarely get excited over players in free agency barring guys like Parise and Semin, but at the same time a couple of smaller additions along with the kids gaining experience could make a big impact together. Some of the best signings are often the unheralded ones filling a need. We'll need to wait out the playoffs and see what's out there first before we know.
For smaller additions, we would almost have to move another vet out if we expect to play the kids. Just re-signing Nyquist, Andersson, and Brunner gives us 13 forwards under contract for next year. Given how Holland wouldn't even deal White this year, I don't have a lot of faith in him re-arranging the roster to make sure the kids have a spot.

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04-19-2013, 02:42 PM
  #181
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Bored, here's my no real changes lineup for next year:

FORWARDS
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Damien Brunner ($2.500m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.975m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m)
Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m) / Joakim Andersson ($0.850m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)
Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.775m) / Jakub Kindl ($2.500m)
Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m) / Brendan Smith ($1.500m)
Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,952,879; BONUSES: $1,010,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,357,121

It assumes that everyone is healthy, no buyouts, etc. I think the chances of this lineup happening is probably better than many of us would like to believe. Looking at this lineup, I look forward even more to next summer when Bert, Sammy, Eaves, Q, and CC come off our roster.

I would like to throw one name out for consideration: Eric Fehr. Big guy, has shown some offense, right handed, could come at a relative bargain. If we have the roster space, might not be a bad guy to roll the dice on and give a spot to.

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Old
04-19-2013, 05:53 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
Bored, here's my no real changes lineup for next year:

FORWARDS
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Damien Brunner ($2.500m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.975m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m)
Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m) / Joakim Andersson ($0.850m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)
Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.775m) / Jakub Kindl ($2.500m)
Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m) / Brendan Smith ($1.500m)
Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,952,879; BONUSES: $1,010,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,357,121

It assumes that everyone is healthy, no buyouts, etc. I think the chances of this lineup happening is probably better than many of us would like to believe. Looking at this lineup, I look forward even more to next summer when Bert, Sammy, Eaves, Q, and CC come off our roster.

I would like to throw one name out for consideration: Eric Fehr. Big guy, has shown some offense, right handed, could come at a relative bargain. If we have the roster space, might not be a bad guy to roll the dice on and give a spot to.
Does that roster come with a free "we like our team" travel mug?

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Old
04-20-2013, 05:39 AM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
For smaller additions, we would almost have to move another vet out if we expect to play the kids. Just re-signing Nyquist, Andersson, and Brunner gives us 13 forwards under contract for next year. Given how Holland wouldn't even deal White this year, I don't have a lot of faith in him re-arranging the roster to make sure the kids have a spot.
Who are you to bring reason into this?

My main focus was on the defense though. Get a stay-home guy to play with Kronwall so that Ericsson can slide back to the 2nd pair and DeKeyser + Smith can take their time on the bottom pair. Try to cut the dead weight.

I don't see anything really happening up front for another year, and I'm fine with letting Nyquist and Tatar show what they've got. Plus we have an entire 3rd line injured right now, even if I don't want Sammy back that's a bitter truth. But while we can't sign a lot of bodies, we can still look for trades. Skill for grit mainly, seeing as we have skill in the system but no grit.

I consider this year the first year of the retool. Next season the kids will play a bigger part of the team, and the year after that none of Q/Cola/Sammy/Bert are under contract. The only vets signed through 14/15 at this point are Z, Mule, Kronwall, Howard, Helm, Abby, Tootoo. That's the season we'll start to see if the kids are legit or not.

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Old
04-20-2013, 01:23 PM
  #184
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Going to remove this from the sticky section. I think we should get a new one up for the 2013-14 season.

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Old
04-20-2013, 03:09 PM
  #185
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Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($1.100m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Derek Roy ($5.000m) / David Clarkson ($4.200m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Damien Brunner ($2.450m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Joakim Andersson ($0.900m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($1.750m) / Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m)
Brendan Smith ($1.500m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.775m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m)
Buyout: Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.000m)
Buried: Patrick Eaves ($0.275m)
Buyout: Todd Bertuzzi ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,752,879; BONUSES: $1,010,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,557,121

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Old
04-23-2013, 04:44 PM
  #186
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James Mirtle ‏@mirtle 2 min
So @capgeek informs me Jonas Gustavsson has a modified no trade clause. I believe teams have gone too far...

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Old
04-23-2013, 05:17 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
James Mirtle ‏@mirtle 2 min
So @capgeek informs me Jonas Gustavsson has a modified no trade clause. I believe teams have gone too far...
Yeah that had to be one of Hollands brain freezes giving Gustavsson a modified no trade clause.

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04-23-2013, 05:50 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
Yeah that had to be one of Hollands brain freezes giving Gustavsson a modified no trade clause.
Isn't the NTC basically a Holland staple when it comes to contracts?

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Old
04-23-2013, 05:55 PM
  #189
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Quote:
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Isn't the NTC basically a Holland staple when it comes to contracts?
It is basically a staple league wide, our number of them isn't completely out of the norm.

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Old
04-23-2013, 05:55 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
James Mirtle ‏@mirtle 2 min
So @capgeek informs me Jonas Gustavsson has a modified no trade clause. I believe teams have gone too far...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
Yeah that had to be one of Hollands brain freezes giving Gustavsson a modified no trade clause.
Not sure as I see this as an issue. He was signed for two years to be a backup and play 25 % of the games. He comes fairly cheap for a guy they thought highly of. 1.5 won't put us in trouble and no reason to look to move him while he's under contract for the amount of games he'll play.

I do agree that NTC and NMC are handed out like candy but I'm not worried about his. Would make a difference if we had a prospect rotting and needing to be the backup next year.

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Old
04-23-2013, 07:28 PM
  #191
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Isn't the NTC basically a Holland staple when it comes to contracts?
All Wings contracts have an implicit NTC.

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Old
04-23-2013, 11:11 PM
  #192
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All Wings contracts have an implicit NTC.
Must be the loyalty stipulation.

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Old
04-23-2013, 11:13 PM
  #193
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Isn't the NTC basically a Holland staple when it comes to contracts?
Exactly pretty much, I guess It's a way of Holland showing loyalty to his players or something like that.

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Old
04-26-2013, 11:48 AM
  #194
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FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($2.250m)
Gustav Nyquist ($1.250m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Nik Antropov ($3.750m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.775m) / Brendan Smith ($1.250m)
Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m) / Jakub Kindl ($1.250m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m)
Buyout: Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $57,602,879; BONUSES: $1,010,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $7,707,121

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Old
04-26-2013, 12:34 PM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingfan View Post
FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($2.250m)
Gustav Nyquist ($1.250m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Nik Antropov ($3.750m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.775m) / Brendan Smith ($1.250m)
Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m) / Jakub Kindl ($1.250m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m)
Buyout: Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $57,602,879; BONUSES: $1,010,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $7,707,121
I dont know much about Antropov but I could live with that roster for next year until Bert is gone. I do think Anderson will be in the mix there though.

I also think the Defense needs to pick up a solid top 3 or preferably a top 2 RH defenseman with defensive skills for Kronwall. Trade Quincey for any pick we can get. So we get

Kronwall, RH FA
Ericsson, Smith
Dekesyer, Kindl

That makes us more solid on the back end, hopefully Smith improves a bunch int he offseason or we may still be in trouble.

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Old
04-26-2013, 12:43 PM
  #196
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Final Edition of Preferred Opening Night Roster for 2013-14 Season:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Jaromir Jagr ($4.550m)
Gustav Nyquist ($1.000m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Nathan Horton ($4.750m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Joakim Andersson ($1.000m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.775m) / Brendan Smith ($1.000m)
Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m) / Jakub Kindl ($1.050m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m)
RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (0.039% of upper limit)
Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.025m—1.0%)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,227,879; BONUSES: $1,010,000
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $4,082,121


Hmmm... Forgot about Brunner...

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Old
04-26-2013, 01:21 PM
  #197
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I like Franzen at center. He's a more engage player who seems to know he has to take control of the play.
Didn't I get **** on last year and the year before when I suggested the idea of Franzen back at center?

Now that Babcock tried it and he looked good, everyone is like "Yeah, woohoo! Put him in the middle!"

Also, I seem to remember getting dumped on when I said Kindl was a better player than Quincey and held fast to that position.

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04-26-2013, 02:02 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Didn't I get **** on last year and the year before when I suggested the idea of Franzen back at center?

Now that Babcock tried it and he looked good, everyone is like "Yeah, woohoo! Put him in the middle!"

Also, I seem to remember getting dumped on when I said Kindl was a better player than Quincey and held fast to that position.
I like him at center too, but the gripe is that Franzen is our best winger. So when you also have Z & D especially, but also F as center options, it wouldn't normally make sense to put your best winger in the middle. Now that Fil is showing his inability to center a scoring line with Z&D play together, it's making sense.

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04-26-2013, 02:04 PM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Didn't I get **** on last year and the year before when I suggested the idea of Franzen back at center?

Now that Babcock tried it and he looked good, everyone is like "Yeah, woohoo! Put him in the middle!"

Also, I seem to remember getting dumped on when I said Kindl was a better player than Quincey and held fast to that position.
Cool.

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Old
04-26-2013, 02:25 PM
  #200
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Per Custance over at ESPN.

Quote:
Regardless of the frustrations he causes Red Wings fans at times, if Filppula goes to the open market, he'll get paid. No doubt about it. There aren't many centers hitting the market, and even fewer in his age range (29). Keep in mind that he's represented by the same agency (Acme World Sports) that got Ville Leino a six-year, $27 million contract from the Sabres in free agency.

This certainly hasn't been a contract year for Filppula, but he's just one year removed from a 23-goal, 66-point season. Considering the lackluster free-agent class, the Red Wings' cap room and even the possibility of Datsyuk leaving down the road, I think Ken Holland finds a way to get this deal done. He has to.

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