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MacTavish New GM | Tambellini Fired | Howson Promoted to SVP

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Old
04-16-2013, 04:38 PM
  #226
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
Although Burke is a verbal tough guy, he had a cup of coffee in the AHL and became a lawyer. Lowe is a former NHL defenseman known for his physical play and toughness. Assuming Lowe has kept in a modicum of shape since his retirement, he would kick Burke's butt in a barn fight. In fact, we saw that yesterday during the press conference. I think everyone can agree that Lowe is far from being a master wordsmith, but I wouldn't want to fight that guy in a barn.

What I worry about Lowe is that he is becoming a Bob Pulford. A guy who is entrenched in his upper management position with the unwavering support of ownership, which allows him to cycle through GMs and coaches with little repercussions to himself. It took Bill Wirtz passing away to remove Pulford.
That's the key though, Burke knows all the foreign objects he could use to his advantage in a dark building.

Smart man.

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04-16-2013, 04:48 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Tad Mikowsky View Post
So you're saying that he told Kevin Lowe to trade Stoll and Greene specifically for Lubomir Visnovsky?

I would love to see some proof other than "he put them in the pressbox". Do you have a link?
Where do you come up with this? You sure twisted this around.

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04-16-2013, 05:02 PM
  #228
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I'd like to get a sense from posters here what kind of mark will Craig MacTavish try to leave in his first trade/acquisition as a first time GM of the Oilers.

I get a funny feeling we may be in for a doozie. I think MacTavish will make a statement in the summer. And I'm not so sure that anybody is safe.

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04-16-2013, 05:14 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
I'd like to get a sense from posters here what kind of mark will Craig MacTavish try to leave in his first trade/acquisition as a first time GM of the Oilers.

I get a funny feeling we may be in for a doozie. I think MacTavish will make a statement in the summer. And I'm not so sure that anybody is safe.
He's going to have to make a huge statement in the summer, otherwise his acquisition would seem pointless in the eyes of the fan. I'd go as far to say that our first rounder & Hemsky aren't safe.

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04-16-2013, 05:18 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
That's the key though, Burke knows all the foreign objects he could use to his advantage in a dark building.

Smart man.
Or: Burke trades two of his weapons to Lowe for one of his and clanks Lowe over the head before Lowe picks which one to use.

Smart man indeed

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04-16-2013, 05:28 PM
  #231
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Since the announcement, Mac T has said numerous times the team needs depth. He's made no mention of a #1 or #2 dman or acquiring star power of any kind. I think it's very unlikely we're going to see a blockbuster trade this summer. I think we will see a number of trades for bottom half of the roster type players, maybe one or two veteran second line/second pairing types. The kids are safe. Even Gagner probably won't move. My biggest worry is we're going to give up a top 10 draft pick for a vet who's paid too much money and walks in a few years.

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04-16-2013, 05:35 PM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
I'd like to get a sense from posters here what kind of mark will Craig MacTavish try to leave in his first trade/acquisition as a first time GM of the Oilers.

I get a funny feeling we may be in for a doozie. I think MacTavish will make a statement in the summer. And I'm not so sure that anybody is safe.
It all depends on how MacT describes "bold".

He's already said it's very highly unlikely he trades any of the kids.

So, to me, bold means maybe unloading some guys who have been with the organization for awhile(i.e. Horcoff, Smyth, Hemsky) or newly acquired guys that haven't worked out(Belanger, N. Schultz, Eager).

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04-16-2013, 05:40 PM
  #233
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We have a lot of marginal RFA and UFA contracts expiring this year and next year. Wouldn't mind him and Howson trimming the fat and keeping a few contracts free just in case while maybe seeing who leaves other organizations. We always seem to be right up against it with contracts and I don't think our pool is really that full of potential NHLers right now.

I think a big reason Hartikainen is back up is deciding whether to offer him another contract or just let him go back to Finland. Apparently he's looking for a one-way contract now or he might go home but I don't know if that kid is ever going to be an NHLer to be honest. I'd let Peckham, Teubert, Plante go as well. Coke machine era is over, guys have to be able to play now too.


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Old
04-16-2013, 06:08 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
It all depends on how MacT describes "bold".

He's already said it's very highly unlikely he trades any of the kids.

So, to me, bold means maybe unloading some guys who have been with the organization for awhile(i.e. Horcoff, Smyth, Hemsky) or newly acquired guys that haven't worked out(Belanger, N. Schultz, Eager).
I agree with your "bold" scenario. And in this market, trading away a Smyth or a Hemsky would indeed be very bold. There aren't allot of fans like the ones on these boards that pick apart every smidgeon of detail from the player's broom closet.

Most fans just kinda like, dislike, love, or hate certain players. It'll be tough to trade a fan favorite, but it will be so.

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04-16-2013, 06:11 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Chooch View Post
I still can't believe the day has come in which we are now addressing MacTavish as our GM. Is this a nightmare?
It's incomprehensible Chooch, I'm still in shock, but then again, not surprised that this organization pulled off something "silly" as this. When I first heard the news yesterday that Tambo got fired., I was just hoping that MacT wasn't his replacement., Yupp Mact it was. OK, well was just hoping on a temporary basis., Nope full time., I was sick to my stomach. Just the thought of these 2 still running the show again, no matter what.

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04-16-2013, 06:39 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by oil slick View Post
I heard this type of thing 5 years ago. I heard it 4 years ago. I heard it 3, 2, and 1 year ago. Every year, you have apologists saying that it takes time to turn things around (even if Lowe was the chief when the mess was created), and we can't judge Lowe yet.

Well it's not this hard to build a playoff team. It doesn't take 7 years to create a winning team. How do I know? How about the fact that Edmonton will soon have the longest playoff drought in the NHL.

Here's a stat to show just how historically bad Lowe has been during his tenure. In another 3 weeks, only 5 teams in the history of the NHL will have had longer playoff droughts. Requiring 8 years to get to the playoffs is not normal.
We all know its been a while since the Oilers have been in the playoffs. Klowe knows it, Katz knows it, everyone knows.

Like Lowe said after the cup run they chased a dream, admittedly it was a mistake that led them to Taylor Hall. There is no way anyone here can say that at that moment building the team around Hall was not 100% the right thing to do. So how do you do that? Do you just plug him into your old cancerous locker room? Or do you build a team around him that can grow with him, Eberle, RNH, Yakupov, Schultz, Smid. That's a group to build around.

We all knew that this road would be long and painful, and I doubt there is anyone on this board that didn't want a rebuild. Yet somehow now that we are near the end we are mad that the Oilers chose to rebuild the team around Hall? It makes no sense. Was this year a disappointment? Yeah it was. Were the last 3 years a disappointment? Not at all, they were exactly what we all signed up for.

Could the Oilers have made the playoffs sooner? Possibly if they decided to retool similar to Toronto. They didn't, instead they decided to use the model that builds a greater opportunity for long term success. What do the leafs have that says they will be a good team in 10 years? Kadri, Kessel, Gardiner? The Oilers have 3 1st overalls, Eberle and Schultz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
I think it's pretty clear the reason most of us want Lowe gone is the precedence he sets. Of course, none of us actually know if he is good at his job because none of us really even know what he does. For all we know, he's paid to hang out pal around with Katz and whoever else just because. We all know he should have been fired for his horrible performance as GM, but he was instead promoted by himself to a seemingly self created position so he could continue to call the shots and not get blamed for it. Has Lowe made good moves? OF course he has, 2006 wasn't a fluke. But 3 playoff appearances in 12 years doesn't lie. He's made some horrific moves and handed out some albatross contracts that have crippled the team. The precedence that bothers us is that as bad as this team is, apparently Lowe will always be around and of course by causation we associate Lowe with the teams mediocrity, and there is no change in sight unless he isn't around.

Does that still amuse you?
How is president of hockey Ops a made up position? I'm pretty sure most NHL teams have a similar position.

Over the last 13 years that Lowe has been involved in the management of this team How many years of that do you think he had a chance of building a team that had a chance to make the playoffs? We can scratch out 2000-2005 those years were pre Salary Cap Pre Katz where this team had little to no chance at building anything due to the EIG and its lack of money. Once 06 hit the Oilers had a chance to compete when the cap came in. and Lowe showed us that immediately when he made some huge acquisitions, Pronger and Peca were the 2 big ones. It had been 20 years since the Oilers could attract such talent. What did that lead to? Game 7.

How did Lowe handle the aftermath of the Cup run, Not very well. He tried to keep a team that was that close to winning a cup together by overpaying guys like Pisani. He lost Pronger to no fault of his own followed by Smyth and thats pretty much when the team fell apart. That's pretty much when he stepped down/up into the President position.

As the president he hired Tambi, who had 5 years at the helm. The first 3 were trying to make the playoffs, we all remember how those years went. The 3rd year was the injury riddled year that lead us to Taylor Hall, which started the rebuild. This year is the first year that you could look at the rebuild and say, "Ok now they have a core, they have to start winning". Tambi didn't win and Lowe fired him. I'm not sure how else he should have handled things as the president of hockey operations.

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04-16-2013, 06:46 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Tommy35 View Post
It's incomprehensible Chooch, I'm still in shock, but then again, not surprised that this organization pulled off something "silly" as this. When I first heard the news yesterday that Tambo got fired., I was just hoping that MacT wasn't his replacement., Yupp Mact it was. OK, well was just hoping on a temporary basis., Nope full time., I was sick to my stomach. Just the thought of these 2 still running the show again, no matter what.
i'm in the same boat, just saying MacT's name again makes me confused and sad

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04-16-2013, 08:07 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
We all know its been a while since the Oilers have been in the playoffs. Klowe knows it, Katz knows it, everyone knows.

Like Lowe said after the cup run they chased a dream, admittedly it was a mistake that led them to Taylor Hall. There is no way anyone here can say that at that moment building the team around Hall was not 100% the right thing to do. So how do you do that? Do you just plug him into your old cancerous locker room? Or do you build a team around him that can grow with him, Eberle, RNH, Yakupov, Schultz, Smid. That's a group to build around.

We all knew that this road would be long and painful, and I doubt there is anyone on this board that didn't want a rebuild. Yet somehow now that we are near the end we are mad that the Oilers chose to rebuild the team around Hall? It makes no sense. Was this year a disappointment? Yeah it was. Were the last 3 years a disappointment? Not at all, they were exactly what we all signed up for.

Could the Oilers have made the playoffs sooner? Possibly if they decided to retool similar to Toronto. They didn't, instead they decided to use the model that builds a greater opportunity for long term success. What do the leafs have that says they will be a good team in 10 years? Kadri, Kessel, Gardiner? The Oilers have 3 1st overalls, Eberle and Schultz.



How is president of hockey Ops a made up position? I'm pretty sure most NHL teams have a similar position.

Over the last 13 years that Lowe has been involved in the management of this team How many years of that do you think he had a chance of building a team that had a chance to make the playoffs? We can scratch out 2000-2005 those years were pre Salary Cap Pre Katz where this team had little to no chance at building anything due to the EIG and its lack of money. Once 06 hit the Oilers had a chance to compete when the cap came in. and Lowe showed us that immediately when he made some huge acquisitions, Pronger and Peca were the 2 big ones. It had been 20 years since the Oilers could attract such talent. What did that lead to? Game 7.

How did Lowe handle the aftermath of the Cup run, Not very well. He tried to keep a team that was that close to winning a cup together by overpaying guys like Pisani. He lost Pronger to no fault of his own followed by Smyth and thats pretty much when the team fell apart. That's pretty much when he stepped down/up into the President position.

As the president he hired Tambi, who had 5 years at the helm. The first 3 were trying to make the playoffs, we all remember how those years went. The 3rd year was the injury riddled year that lead us to Taylor Hall, which started the rebuild. This year is the first year that you could look at the rebuild and say, "Ok now they have a core, they have to start winning". Tambi didn't win and Lowe fired him. I'm not sure how else he should have handled things as the president of hockey operations.
I think this is a pretty solid post.

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04-16-2013, 10:55 PM
  #239
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I am 100% behind the Tambellini firing and partially behind the MacTavish appointment as GM. I'm not sure if he is the best candidate available, but I feel confident he is an improvement on his predecessor and if we must hire a boy on the bus, he is my top choice of former Oiler Alumni to be put in the GM position, but saying that it still does not make him the right choice.

Craig MacTavish is a smart individual and I think he will be strong in the most important duty of a GM which is talent evaluation and clearly identifying need. He will have a good pulse on what our team is and what it needs and more often than not will remove the wheat from the chaff. I remember prior to the 2006 Stanley Cup push it was MacT who made the call that team was capable of winning a Stanley Cup and he made the call and told Lowe to bolster the team to make a push. When MacT was our coach I can recall very few examples of players he didn't have time for who were successful elsewhere a lot of people were crying for Schremp and Rita to get icetime, they didn't get that icetime and were eventually traded and flopped proving his initial intuition right. Even for all the flack he got playing Toby Peterson he was still a better NHL player than either of Schremp or Rita.

To me MacT's weaknesses are that he has a temper and has had public falling out's with certain players, being a GM as opposed to coach he is more insulated from direct player interaction/confrontation, but at some point could become an issue again. He knows the value and importance of key role players and I believed he played atleast some role in the contract Horcoff got, and while he wasn't the man who signing contracts in the past we have had some overpaid role players in his time here such as Moreau, Pisani, etc. regardless of their value to the team you don't necessarily have to pay them what is "fair" for their contributions to the team merely what it takes to get a deal done. Detroit paid their pretty famous grind line a pretty modest sum for quite sometime, and that contributed to their success, you have to get some value contracts wherever and whenever you can.

To me the part that seperates good GM's from great GM's is the ability to institute the kind of culture you want through your organization and having the vision to foresee where the game is headed and be infront of the curve as opposed to behind it, chasing it. These are things that are more of the wait and see category and will play some role in MacT success or lack thereof in his new role.

Regardless of all this 3 cheers for the long overdue firing of the dithering dope Steve Tambellini.

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:59 PM
  #240
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To me the part that seperates good GM's from great GM's is the ability to institute the kind of culture you want through your organization and having the vision to foresee where the game is headed and be infront of the curve as opposed to behind it, chasing it. These are things that are more of the wait and see category and will play some role in MacT success or lack thereof in his new role.
Absolutely

Forecasting. Good managers are constantly working towards an end product with every transaction. It's impossible to build for three years in the future without an identity in mind. It's entirely what we have lacked in the Lowe era and is mirrored throughout failures in all sports.

Unfortunately, experience is really the only way of vetting such a culture. Howson just experienced it, so hopefully we can impart some of this on MacT quickly.

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04-17-2013, 12:20 AM
  #241
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I can't even write a decent post referring to MacT as GM. It's weird, I'll give him the benefit of a doubt. He has some major work to do to change the losing culture around.

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04-17-2013, 02:20 AM
  #242
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I can't even write a decent post referring to MacT as GM. It's weird, I'll give him the benefit of a doubt. He has some major work to do to change the losing culture around.
I don't think there is really a losing culture, you can tell these guys hate to lose. The team just hasn't been playing good enough to win.

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04-17-2013, 09:00 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
It all depends on how MacT describes "bold".

He's already said it's very highly unlikely he trades any of the kids.

So, to me, bold means maybe unloading some guys who have been with the organization for awhile(i.e. Horcoff, Smyth, Hemsky) or newly acquired guys that haven't worked out(Belanger, N. Schultz, Eager).
It could mean so much. Could be moving this year's 1st, even next year's. Moving Gagner/Klefbom. Adding a guy like Lou.

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04-17-2013, 10:25 AM
  #244
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So during the intermission, MacT stated that he was a player personnel guy with a longer title then that. Goes on to say he was apart of bringing good players in.

Hmmmm, something doesn't add up.

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04-17-2013, 10:38 AM
  #245
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Last week:

MacTavish comes into Lowe's office.

Mact: "Hey Kev, wassup?"

Lowe: "Just polishing my rings."

MacT: "Oh right, it's Thursday today. I've been toying with just wearing one ring for a while, whaddya think?"

Lowe: "I dunno Mac, you want people to take you seriously."

Tambellini strolls by

Tambo: "Hi Kevin, Hi Craig, what are you guys talking about?"

Lowe: "Uh...beer?"

Tambo: "That's cool, see you guys later."

Lowe: "You know Mac, about Steve, I've been thinking..."


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04-17-2013, 10:42 AM
  #246
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A couple of really good articles I found on this topic. I find them particularly interesting since they are not Edmonton media people.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl-...224722425.html

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...stem-promotion

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04-17-2013, 10:53 AM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Asher View Post
A couple of really good articles I found on this topic. I find them particularly interesting since they are not Edmonton media people.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl-...224722425.html

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...stem-promotion
Not really surprising, but I still feel this isn't as far fetched as people make it out to be and that if it does fail it's the end of the road for everyone from Lowe down.

It's not uncommon for people to hire their friends. John Davidson just did this in CBJ. Was there much of a hiring process there? Howson fired one day, next day Jarmo hired.

You also have Burke that got fired in Toronto, but then went back to his old team much like Howson did with us.

What we are doing isn't rare, it's how things go. The unfortunate part is that we don't have a mind like Davidson running the show.

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04-17-2013, 11:01 AM
  #248
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In one regard one has to feel a bit for MacT in that he is going to get little to no time to make massive improvements. As in this summer he has to come through and the team has to be very much improved next year.

If an outside candidate not perceived to be joined at the hip a buddy and a crony was hired there might be a smidgen more patience but this front office is perceived to be the same old same old and will get no quarter if they fail to improve greatly and very fast.

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04-17-2013, 11:19 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
In one regard one has to feel a bit for MacT in that he is going to get little to no time to make massive improvements. As in this summer he has to come through and the team has to be very much improved next year.

If an outside candidate not perceived to be joined at the hip a buddy and a crony was hired there might be a smidgen more patience but this front office is perceived to be the same old same old and will get no quarter if they fail to improve greatly and very fast.
I don't think it would've mattered who got the job. The fans want the playoffs next year regardless of who's in charge. The worse part about an outsider from my stand point would've been dithering again.

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04-17-2013, 01:33 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
From Elliot Friedmans 30 thoughts...

5. Best omen for Oilers fans: when MacTavish coached, players said his best skill was quickly determining how good someone was -- or wasn't.

Yeah like Brodziak, Stoll, Greene, Torres, Penner.

At least it sounds like MacT will have the guts to make some moves and not be afraid of the consequences but he hardly blew me away in his time as a coach of being able to get the best out of some players and simply dumping them if they even once got in his dog house.
MacTavish didn't trade any of those guys, the GM did... Unless you are saying he told the GM to trade them, which you really need some evidence to back up.
Penner sure, was in MacT's doghouse, but he outlasted MacT, and has failed to impress in LA.
A better examples of MacT as a bad player evaluator might be a Jason Chimera, who went on to a long decent career.

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