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C Nathan MacKinnon - Halifax Mooseheads, QMJHL (2013, 1st overall, Colorado) III

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Old
04-14-2013, 07:21 PM
  #201
VerySuperFamous
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avsfan09 View Post
If you watch a player like Matt Duchene it really helps you appreciate how important skating is. Players like Gaborik, Hall, and Duchene are stars because of their skating.

Yes the ability to think the game at an elite level can help you overcome a lack of skating ability but alot of star players have a game relying mostly on elite skating.

Look at Seth Jones. If he skated like Hall Gill he wouldn't be even close to as touted.
Hall isn't a star because he's fast. He's a star because he charges through people, his physicality and going all out every time he's on the ice is what makes him a star. Gaborik might possibly be a star, but he's not a franchise forward, he doesn't control the play, but can score, and should have a center who is more skilled than him. Duchene is possible.

Of course if a guy can't skate he wouldn't be as good. The difference is Jones' skating compliments his other abilities, it's not his most important value. If it was he'd be Bouw.

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04-14-2013, 09:19 PM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
What has Mackinnon done to justify being a better prospect than Hall? Shiny new toy syndrome at its finest.

Hall has been better during the regular season and the WJC and he also had two Memorial Cup MVP's and titles. Hall is also bigger - Mackinnon is a center in junior and it's been debated if that is transferrable to the big league. Both played on powerhouse teams so that's not a legit argument against Hall. Drouin's far better than anyone he had in Windsor.
Hall is a November Born compared to Mackinnon whose a September 1st born meaning Hall played his final year of junior as an 18 year old Mack will only be 18 next September, 2ndly Hall didn't make the WJC team as a 17 year old like Mackinnon did in a lockout year no less. Mackinnon if his team makes the Mem cup this year would be on the same track as Hall he just wont get the chance to play a 3rd year in the Q like Hall did in the O to make back2back mem cups.

also Hall has 1 inch. and 10 pounds currently on Mackinnon and he's 4 years older, by the time Mack is 21 I have little doubt he wont be atleast 195. also the thought last year was he might not stick at center, I've heard pretty much no one this year talk about him moving to wing he's pretty much squashed that idea this season. Mack is also having a better statistical season then hall's 17 year old season.

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04-14-2013, 09:30 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
Hall is a November Born compared to Mackinnon whose a September 1st born meaning Hall played his final year of junior as an 18 year old Mack will only be 18 next September, 2ndly Hall didn't make the WJC team as a 17 year old like Mackinnon did in a lockout year no less. Mackinnon if his team makes the Mem cup this year would be on the same track as Hall he just wont get the chance to play a 3rd year in the Q like Hall did in the O to make back2back mem cups.

also Hall has 1 inch. and 10 pounds currently on Mackinnon and he's 4 years older, by the time Mack is 21 I have little doubt he wont be atleast 195. also the thought last year was he might not stick at center, I've heard pretty much no one this year talk about him moving to wing he's pretty much squashed that idea this season. Mack is also having a better statistical season then hall's 17 year old season.
Pretty well sums it up. Also who in their right minds can call MacKinnon a "shiny new toy"?

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04-14-2013, 10:24 PM
  #204
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Very, very good. I can't believe some of the people around here. Saying "I watched the WJC, Mackinnon didn't look good" is the easiest way to yell "I'm a total ****ing moron, everyone!".

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04-14-2013, 10:24 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakfast of Champs View Post
Pretty well sums it up. Also who in their right minds can call MacKinnon a "shiny new toy"?
Shiny new toy being the upcoming draft class which is always better than the previous one on HF. The age difference is a valid argument and really the only one in that Mackinnon is essentially playing 10 months younger than Hall was in his draft year. That explains the vastly different WJC performances and statistical outputs.

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04-14-2013, 10:49 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
Shiny new toy being the upcoming draft class which is always better than the previous one on HF. The age difference is a valid argument and really the only one in that Mackinnon is essentially playing 10 months younger than Hall was in his draft year. That explains the vastly different WJC performances and statistical outputs.
I know what it means, but MacKinnon is far from it even though its only his draft year now.

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04-14-2013, 11:22 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
Shiny new toy being the upcoming draft class which is always better than the previous one on HF. The age difference is a valid argument and really the only one in that Mackinnon is essentially playing 10 months younger than Hall was in his draft year. That explains the vastly different WJC performances and statistical outputs.
You have this totally wrong.
Its always 'next year is better than this year,' and then when it gets close to the draft everyone says this years is total ****.

This year is an exception, because the class is actually phenomenal.

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Old
04-14-2013, 11:32 PM
  #208
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I think he's very good, and personally I'd take him 1st overall over Jones (or anyone else). Reminds me most of Hall, but with a touch more hockey IQ, and slightly more of a natural centre game (while Hall has a pretty "winger" game, even though he played plenty of centre pre-NHL). I'd say only Tavares and Stamkos were clearly better prospects than MacKinnon out of all players from the last 6 drafts.

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04-15-2013, 12:21 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Mozesmadness View Post
1- Stamkos
2- Tavares
3- Hall
4- MaKinnon
5- RNH
6- Yakupov
7- Kane
LOL this is the most biased post I've ever seen. You would take your Edmonton boys over Patrick Kane? Hahahaha

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Old
04-15-2013, 05:47 AM
  #210
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He's going to be good. I have my doubts about him being as dominant as some people seem to think he's going to be, however.

I see him becoming a similar player to Nicklas Backstrom.

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04-15-2013, 09:01 AM
  #211
Lessy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksPK View Post
You have this totally wrong.
Its always 'next year is better than this year,' and then when it gets close to the draft everyone says this years is total ****.

This year is an exception, because the class is actually phenomenal.
The top guys will be scrutinized in the near future and the hype will waver. Not saying it's a weak draft but it's no 2003 either. Jones/Mackinnon are more Taylor Hall level than John Tavares/Steven Stamkos #1's.

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04-15-2013, 03:25 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by VerySuperFamous View Post
Hall isn't a star because he's fast. He's a star because he charges through people, his physicality and going all out every time he's on the ice is what makes him a star. Gaborik might possibly be a star, but he's not a franchise forward, he doesn't control the play, but can score, and should have a center who is more skilled than him. Duchene is possible.

Of course if a guy can't skate he wouldn't be as good. The difference is Jones' skating compliments his other abilities, it's not his most important value. If it was he'd be Bouw.
Without his skating and acceleration he wouldn't be even close to as productive so yeah I would say that his skating is one of his most important attributes.

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04-15-2013, 08:29 PM
  #213
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I simply laugh at anyone putting some of EDM's draft picks over Patrick Kane.

Man you guys are delusional. Plus MacKinnon, although he is good, has done nothing at the NHL level. It should be (with Nate fitting around RHN and Yakupov):

1. Stamkos
2. Tavares
3. Kane
4. Hall
5. RHN
6. Yakupov

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04-15-2013, 08:39 PM
  #214
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From the few games I've seen, and the scouting reports I've read I'd put him right behind Tavares and Stamkos, and a little ahead of Hall and Kane.

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04-16-2013, 10:38 AM
  #215
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Bump.

Much discussion around the Avs board about who they might end up with. Most still want Jones, but the team's recent surge is lessening the chances of being able to draft him.

That has left many people wondering who the next best choice would be. MacKinnon or Drouin? I think there are valid answers for both.

But, one thing Avs fans continue to question is position. This draft is somewhat rare in that the top 3 is going to offer a center, a winger and a D. Avs need a D, and don't really need a C with Duchene, Stastny and O'Reilly already down the middle.

So, the big question for me is....can MacKinnon play, develop properly and thrive as a winger in the NHL?
I know he's played there in the past (including at the WJC), but would it be a mistake to put him on the wing?

I'm not going to lie, him on a line with guys like Landeskog and Duchene would be pretty damn fun to watch next season.

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04-16-2013, 11:15 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Bump.

Much discussion around the Avs board about who they might end up with. Most still want Jones, but the team's recent surge is lessening the chances of being able to draft him.

That has left many people wondering who the next best choice would be. MacKinnon or Drouin? I think there are valid answers for both.

But, one thing Avs fans continue to question is position. This draft is somewhat rare in that the top 3 is going to offer a center, a winger and a D. Avs need a D, and don't really need a C with Duchene, Stastny and O'Reilly already down the middle.

So, the big question for me is....can MacKinnon play, develop properly and thrive as a winger in the NHL?
I know he's played there in the past (including at the WJC), but would it be a mistake to put him on the wing?

I'm not going to lie, him on a line with guys like Landeskog and Duchene would be pretty damn fun to watch next season.

Hypotheically, his game is very well suited for the wing. He is an explosive, powerful skater who has a quick release and a nose for the net. He isn't afraid to battle aglong the boards for the puck either.

Having said that, 2 of the worst performances I have ever seen MacKinnon have (game 1 of the super series, WJC), were two of the only times I've seen him play wing.

I'm really not sure if its a good idea to mess with such a good thing to move him to the wing.

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04-16-2013, 11:16 AM
  #217
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Would it be beneficial to break him into the NHL on his off position... He has the makings of a wing, I could definitely see it, but the work he's done in the faceoff dot and defensive zone suggests that he should be brought in as center... He's got the game for it or sure, maybe over time, but he looks uncomfortable on the wing when I've seen him play there .... Something that can easily be fixed/adjusted too.

I don't know, if the Avs keep climbing you can avoid the problem and draft Drouin
Drouin - Duchene - Landy
Yes.

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04-16-2013, 01:17 PM
  #218
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I don't believe he'll be as effective on the wing. He needs to be a center.

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04-16-2013, 01:21 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by RJQuack View Post
Would it be beneficial to break him into the NHL on his off position... He has the makings of a wing, I could definitely see it, but the work he's done in the faceoff dot and defensive zone suggests that he should be brought in as center... He's got the game for it or sure, maybe over time, but he looks uncomfortable on the wing when I've seen him play there .... Something that can easily be fixed/adjusted too.

I don't know, if the Avs keep climbing you can avoid the problem and draft Drouin
Drouin - Duchene - Landy
Yes.
Yeah... Or Landeskog on his natural left-wing and Drouin at Duchene's right. Everytime I've seen Drouin make something crazy, it was from the right-wing so...

It would be a shame for Nathan MacKinnon to end up a winger ! The kid may play there to help a bit, and his game is suited for the wing as some say. But he puts to much work into being a good centerman to bring him up as a winger. MacKinnon is dynamic ! He'll end up being good wherever they put him.

But my Panthers need a center, and he is one of a kind ! I really hope we end up drafting him.

He'll be a center, bank on it.

RG, if you want a winger, you'll never be wrong by picking Drouin... Even if it is at numbero uno !

All three kids are special.

But I'm on the MacKinnon-bandwagon !

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04-17-2013, 02:22 AM
  #220
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On the outside looking in here... but with Giguere's comments, and the Avs seemingly doing poorly since the return of RoR (though statistically, he has been good), could he be on the way out once the Avs are able to trade him away? Forgot when the offer-sheet came out, but there is a very real chance of him being traded away.

Stastny hasn't been doing well either - perhaps he will see a change of scenery?

The most logical course would be for the Avs to draft Jones. After that, you can make a good case either way for drafting MacKinnon and using him at center making someone else expendable, or drafting Drouin and using him as a winger.

What do Avs fans think will happen in the next year? ROR gone? Stastny? They both stay?

Drafting MacKinnon and then trading RoR to Edmonton (no longer a divisional opponent next season) for Eberle or whomever else (plus whatever else either way to balance out the trade) might make sense there. Edmonton sounds like they are going to be aggressive in the trade/UFA market.

This will be a very interesting year for drafting in the top 3, and then drafting in the next 5.

It also seems to me that MacKinnon would be more effective as a C rather than a winger. I don't see him converting. I can MAYBE see whomever drafts him utilizing him as a winger for a little while while he adjusts a bit to the NHL game, but this guy will not only be a center, he will be an elite center at that. In my opinion, you don't waste the talent at that position. Elite centers are vastly more valuable than elite wingers, so why do the conversion?

If the Avs draft him, I would take that as a sign they are going to trade another center away. If they draft Drouin, maybe they all stay.

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04-17-2013, 06:42 AM
  #221
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On the outside looking in here... but with Giguere's comments, and the Avs seemingly doing poorly since the return of RoR (though statistically, he has been good), could he be on the way out once the Avs are able to trade him away? Forgot when the offer-sheet came out, but there is a very real chance of him being traded away.

Stastny hasn't been doing well either - perhaps he will see a change of scenery?

The most logical course would be for the Avs to draft Jones. After that, you can make a good case either way for drafting MacKinnon and using him at center making someone else expendable, or drafting Drouin and using him as a winger.

What do Avs fans think will happen in the next year? ROR gone? Stastny? They both stay?

Drafting MacKinnon and then trading RoR to Edmonton (no longer a divisional opponent next season) for Eberle or whomever else (plus whatever else either way to balance out the trade) might make sense there. Edmonton sounds like they are going to be aggressive in the trade/UFA market.

This will be a very interesting year for drafting in the top 3, and then drafting in the next 5.

It also seems to me that MacKinnon would be more effective as a C rather than a winger. I don't see him converting. I can MAYBE see whomever drafts him utilizing him as a winger for a little while while he adjusts a bit to the NHL game, but this guy will not only be a center, he will be an elite center at that. In my opinion, you don't waste the talent at that position. Elite centers are vastly more valuable than elite wingers, so why do the conversion?

If the Avs draft him, I would take that as a sign they are going to trade another center away. If they draft Drouin, maybe they all stay.
Impossible to say what management thinks about Stastny or O'Reilly and what O'Reilly thinks about Avalanche. He might not want to stay here long-term. Stastny same as well. Personally I think Stastny bails to St.Louis to play with his buddies after next season. O'Reilly will HOPEFULLY stay.

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Old
04-17-2013, 08:21 AM
  #222
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If Florida gets the 1st pick.. Which move will create more criticism? Picking Jones, MacK or Drouin first overall. Probably not Jones since he's been first in most of the rankings.

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04-17-2013, 08:41 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Rick Rypien Farts View Post
If Florida gets the 1st pick.. Which move will create more criticism? Picking Jones, MacK or Drouin first overall. Probably not Jones since he's been first in most of the rankings.
I think no matter the team, picking Drouin will result in the most criticism.

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04-17-2013, 08:48 AM
  #224
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If Florida gets the 1st pick.. Which move will create more criticism? Picking Jones, MacK or Drouin first overall. Probably not Jones since he's been first in most of the rankings.
Douin, no matter the team.

A) Hes a bit smaller
B) He was a riser in the draft, not a concensus #1 or #2 to start the year. MacK and Jones were always thought to be #1 or #2
C)He could be a winger

If HF loves 2 things its big centers. Thus why Barkov will be claimed to be the steal of the draft if he goes 4th

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04-17-2013, 08:50 AM
  #225
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Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
I simply laugh at anyone putting some of EDM's draft picks over Patrick Kane.

Man you guys are delusional. Plus MacKinnon, although he is good, has done nothing at the NHL level. It should be (with Nate fitting around RHN and Yakupov):

1. Stamkos
2. Tavares
3. Kane
4. Hall
5. RHN
6. Yakupov
You can make a pretty good case for Hall over Kane - the others not yet but certainly isn't out of the possibility.

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