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The Carey Price Discussion Thread (part 2)

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Old
04-17-2013, 04:28 AM
  #201
bsl
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
.

The funny thing with this situation you don't even have to reach back to comparisons to Dryden or Roy to make any point. People need to look no further than players like Hayward , Hackett, or even Huet to find guys who supposedly were on the underdog side skill wise and all seemed to relish the personal challenges of being in Montreal. Those guys were less than gods and they got a job done. Night in and night out. Worked themselves out of slumps, no coddling, no army of people making excuses. Without the benefit of a good team. Oh yeah, and they got little respect.

I see the disdain shown by the novice masses towards these less "thoroughbred" players, but all have something Price doesn't.

This season is crumbling quickly, and here we are debating whether it's better to lose with Price's tattered confidence, or put an experienced 7-1-1 goalie and regain a shot at a division title.

This debate is only this one sided on HFboards, and yes it's because people here are youth-focused, hero-focused, and yes less experienced.

talk to someone outside HF, Price is not as admired or revered, or even respected as much as with the youth crowd. That's experience and wisdom at play. Deal with it.

Winning trumps all else, that's the true history of Montreal. Not trumping up false heroes and worrying about whether the hero will lose his job to a "backup" who played poorly 3 years ago with another team under different circumstances.

Another thing I find odd is the constant Leaf bashing and the 3 year old analysis of their team. Once again, if you're not watching you may think this is 5 years ago, but the Leafs are a freight train right now. Proven against our team. Possibly peaking at a good time. Not intimidated by our building, our fans, or our goaltender.

It's a team to avoid. Seriously. By way of winning a Division. That's why it would behoove the habs (and fans) to get out of the "just glad to be in the playoffs because I didn't think we had a chance 3 months ago" mode and get back to winning thought processes.
Your posts have been superb on this topic. "Youth focused, and hero focused." Brilliant.

I have one consistent position: The last two games were a disaster regarding the playoffs. They have changed everything.

I hold Price partly responsible for that, and I should.

But now we must move on.

We must do everything we can to win the division, including playing Budaj our last 6 games if required.

Price can sit and prepare for the onslaught in the PO. And I have faith in him. But we cannot **** around any more.

The last two, yes two, winnable games, may have just negated Habs advantage won by playing superb hockey for 40 games.

I am massively pissed off by that.

Not one other guy except you has got this on these boards. Not ****ing one guy. Unbelievable.

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Old
04-17-2013, 04:39 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Your posts have been superb on this topic. "Youth focused, and hero focused." Brilliant.

I have one consistent position: The last two games were a disaster regarding the playoffs. They have changed everything.

I hold Price partly responsible for that, and I should.

But now we must move on.

We must do everything we can to win the division, including playing Budaj our last 6 games if required.

Price can sit and prepare for the onslaught in the PO. And I have faith in him. But we cannot **** around any more.

The last two, yes two, winnable games, may have just negated Habs advantage won by playing superb hockey for 40 games.

I am massively pissed off by that.

Not one other guy except you has got this on these boards. Not ****ing one guy. Unbelievable.
You should try being happy more, life is much more fun that way. I see you posting so negatively everyday, I feel sad for you.

Yea our team is struggling g right now but overall things are great compared to a year ago. Yea Budaj should get more time because he is playing well, so should Eller and Galenchyuk but take a minute to stop and smell the roses instead of whining and being upset every single day. Getting upset and demanding more on the Internet isn't going to make the team better.

Enjoy the positives that life has to bring instead of focussing on the negatives everyday.

Go back and read your posts. So much rhetoric. Yea we all want the team to be better but per maiming that DD will be traded if he doesn't pick it up or Price should be benched aren't going to make a difference. So just try to get more enjoyment out of the team you love.

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04-17-2013, 06:49 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
1. I have asked mods here more than once to clamp down on the word 'Haters'. I don't 'hate' Price. I have a life. In fact, I don't hate anyone, except maybe Mao, Hitler, and Stalin. This is the level of behavior that justifies the word hate, not some NHL hockey player. Know the difference.

2. Yes, his very poor play the last 2 games, with a bad D situation, which was well known by him, when we needed him most, DID cost us the division, and possibly home ice in the 1st round.

But fine, keep asking nothing of the Habs, and expecting no better.
Know the hate, man that's rich. And I wasn't speaking specifically about you but you come in and admit you go running to the mods when things don't go your way ? Methinks thou doth protest too much and may I suggest growing a little thicker skin?

No one denies he's in a funk but losing the division title is meaningless, and trying to position the have for some perceived " best matchup" is in this case, literally a fools errand. No one cares if a team wins the presidents trophy and then tanks when it counts, for the division title its even worse. Please don't rat me out to my mom.

Haters gonna hate.

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Old
04-17-2013, 06:52 AM
  #204
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Everyone has their opinions on Carey Price. No matter how much you differ in opinion, there is no need to call the other person names. Learn how to disagree with facts and not insults.

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Old
04-17-2013, 07:39 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Your posts have been superb on this topic. "Youth focused, and hero focused." Brilliant.

I have one consistent position: The last two games were a disaster regarding the playoffs. They have changed everything.

I hold Price partly responsible for that, and I should.

But now we must move on.

We must do everything we can to win the division, including playing Budaj our last 6 games if required.

Price can sit and prepare for the onslaught in the PO. And I have faith in him. But we cannot **** around any more.

The last two, yes two, winnable games, may have just negated Habs advantage won by playing superb hockey for 40 games.

I am massively pissed off by that.

Not one other guy except you has got this on these boards. Not ****ing one guy. Unbelievable.
Thanks, I admire your appreciation for what just transpired over the past 2 games.

These are obviously not the days of Bowman, but if they were the team would absolutely be terrified to turn in 2 performances like Saturday and Monday during a division hunt. There would have been a bag skate, one or 2 veterans banished to the pressbox ( I still have visions of 50 goal scorer Pierre Larouche watching games in from the stands because he couldn't get into the lineup) , and yes a goaltender change. There would be absolute fear of a repeat performance and no nonsense called "goaltender controversy".

The fans have bought into the soap opera around the team, not the team and this board is the worst. L'antichambre is the most quoted source around. There's more talk about contract status and hypothetical salary cap drama then actual play, people have dug in with Carey Price and convinced themselves that he is a real star, more than partly because many people here are too young to have actually seen a real star in a Montreal uniform ( not to disparage young people I have kids in their twenties I am fond of them ). They've convinced themselves that 29th best save pct. and the 22nd best gaa is elite performance. My god.

When Montreal lays an egg against a rival who they are competing with for home ice advantage and a possible division title, I don't care what L'ac has to say, or what Brendan Gallagher says into a microphone, or what anyone else in the infotainment industry or blogosphere says. I want to see what the coach does, and how the players respond. They responded by making no changes and laying another egg. Red alert.

And the "chill dude, we're in the playoffs" attitude blows my mind. I guess 8th really is the new first.

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Old
04-17-2013, 07:52 AM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Your posts have been superb on this topic. "Youth focused, and hero focused." Brilliant.

I have one consistent position: The last two games were a disaster regarding the playoffs. They have changed everything.

I hold Price partly responsible for that, and I should.

But now we must move on.

We must do everything we can to win the division, including playing Budaj our last 6 games if required.

Price can sit and prepare for the onslaught in the PO. And I have faith in him. But we cannot **** around any more.

The last two, yes two, winnable games, may have just negated Habs advantage won by playing superb hockey for 40 games.

I am massively pissed off by that.

Not one other guy except you has got this on these boards. Not ****ing one guy. Unbelievable.
Price lost the game against the Leafs.... no doubt about it. Philly was an entire team breakdown with three breakaways that I saw along with numerous defensive breakdowns... Price had to be amazing for us to come out of the 1st down 2-1.

Yeah, he's hit bad times but it's silly to suggest having Budaj take over. It's been two bad games, you've got to have more faith in Price than that. I understand us sitting him against Pittsburgh but to bench him? Doesn't make sense.

Budaj is the backup for a reason. He's been great this year and that's a luxury we should all be happy to have. If Price goes down in the playoffs... so be it. But let's not get ahead of ourselves... He's been mostly solid this year. When he's been bad he's stunk but he certainly doesn't need replacing.

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Old
04-17-2013, 07:58 AM
  #207
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Is this the year that Price turns his 8-15-3 playoff record around? If he falls apart and Peter Budaj comes in (ala Halak) to save the day what does the future hold for Carey Price as a starting goaltender in Montreal? I hope this doesn't happen. Carey Price needs to get it together and come out swinging once the post-season arrives.

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Old
04-17-2013, 08:04 AM
  #208
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Also is... 'Price is trying out some new equipment' code speak for Price has an injury and is going to play crappy tonight?

Every time I hear that he's trying out new equipment it scares the hell out of me because it always means he's going to suck. I sincerely hope they stop screwing around with this...

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Old
04-17-2013, 08:17 AM
  #209
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Good on Price for that TSN article, very well deserved.
So happy we got this kid in our organization....what a goalie.
I have to say that in the East, Price is in my top 3 with Rask and Lundqvist. Anderson hasn't played enough games but if you really think of it, he's the only goalie this year that has been lights out every games played. Bobrovsky in the west has been great the last month to come to think of it.
This year IMO the top goalies are:
Anderson
Bobrovsky
Rask
Rinne
Price
Emery/Crawford
Nabokov
Backstrom
Lundqvist

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Old
04-17-2013, 08:20 AM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Also is... 'Price is trying out some new equipment' code speak for Price has an injury and is going to play crappy tonight?

Every time I hear that he's trying out new equipment it scares the hell out of me because it always means he's going to suck. I sincerely hope they stop screwing around with this...
Let me ask you this, do you like Rinne? If yes, what would you have said wen he had that terrible week where he got pulled 3-4 games in a row?

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Old
04-17-2013, 09:04 AM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesHabs66 View Post
Is this the year that Price turns his 8-15-3 playoff record around? If he falls apart and Peter Budaj comes in (ala Halak) to save the day what does the future hold for Carey Price as a starting goaltender in Montreal? I hope this doesn't happen. Carey Price needs to get it together and come out swinging once the post-season arrives.
I believe you really have to remove 6 losses out of that record.. the Boston first round sweep has absolutely no bearing on how he played and the two games he played in relief of Halak were him coming off the bench without playing in Months and expected to play well in play-off intensity.

8-9-3 seems more accurate, all things considered.

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Old
04-17-2013, 09:57 AM
  #212
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I believe you really have to remove 6 losses out of that record.. the Boston first round sweep has absolutely no bearing on how he played and the two games he played in relief of Halak were him coming off the bench without playing in Months and expected to play well in play-off intensity.

8-9-3 seems more accurate, all things considered.
No offense and I understand you have a soft spot for that position but his record is what it is. I've heard the same argument about his save % and how it would be elite if it wasn't for a handful of blowouts. That's like saying MaxPac is a PPG player if you don't count all the games he played following an injury. You're either elite or you're not. At least for now.

That TSN survey blows my mind. It just shows how perception is everything in life. Same thing I see at work. There are people who have such a reputation that they can get away with doing nothing and be considered essential.

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Old
04-17-2013, 10:12 AM
  #213
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No offense and I understand you have a soft spot for that position but his record is what it is. I've heard the same argument about his save % and how it would be elite if it wasn't for a handful of blowouts. That's like saying MaxPac is a PPG player if you don't count all the games he played following an injury. You're either elite or you're not. At least for now.

That TSN survey blows my mind. It just shows how perception is everything in life. Same thing I see at work. There are people who have such a reputation that they can get away with doing nothing and be considered essential.
People should refrain from saying on the main boards that Price deserves to win the Vezina. Not even close. I just don't see any Eastern goalie winning it over Bobrovsky other than Rask and Lundqvist anyway.

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Old
04-17-2013, 10:25 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by DenverHabsFan View Post
No offense and I understand you have a soft spot for that position but his record is what it is. I've heard the same argument about his save % and how it would be elite if it wasn't for a handful of blowouts. That's like saying MaxPac is a PPG player if you don't count all the games he played following an injury. You're either elite or you're not. At least for now.

That TSN survey blows my mind. It just shows how perception is everything in life. Same thing I see at work. There are people who have such a reputation that they can get away with doing nothing and be considered essential.
His record is what it is.. you can leave the Washington games in.. but I'm really not going to put the Boston sweep on Price. We had everybody injured and it was a disaster from the get go, we limped into the post-season. Not even Brodeur in his prime was getting that team a win.

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04-17-2013, 10:25 AM
  #215
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People should refrain from saying on the main boards that Price deserves to win the Vezina. Not even close. I just don't see any Eastern goalie winning it over Bobrovsky other than Rask and Lundqvist anyway.
No one ever said that on the main board.... Stop with the Rask and Lundqvist love, please.

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Old
04-17-2013, 10:29 AM
  #216
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People should refrain from saying on the main boards that Price deserves to win the Vezina. Not even close. I just don't see any Eastern goalie winning it over Bobrovsky other than Rask and Lundqvist anyway.
People should stop imagining things, first.

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04-17-2013, 10:41 AM
  #217
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I really don't think using Price's post-season W/L record in the playoffs is fair to him. Look at the teams he's played on:

2007-08: #1 seed (lost in round 2)
2008-09: #8 seed (lost in round 1)
2009-10: #8 seed (played 4 games, was not the starter)
2010-11: #6 seed (lost in round 1)

The only time Price has ever been on a higher seeded team was also his rookie year. The other two times (three if you include his appearances during Halak's run) he would have had to perform above the norm to win the series. Which is not impossible, of course (case in point: Halak), but it shouldn't be a knock against him (or any goalie) if they fail to. That's why they're called upsets - they're the exceptions, not the norm.

Considering the team's success this year and where Price is at in his career, I think this will be a very decisive playoffs for him. He's on a good team, he's the bonafide starter, and he has gained enough playoff experience to know what to expect. The pieces are in place for him to succeed, we'll see if he does.

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Old
04-17-2013, 10:56 AM
  #218
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In all fairness to Price, we seem to always collapse in the last two weeks of the season. I don't have time to compile the stats and it may be just an impression but I don't remember a strong finish in recent history. This year is no exception as the schedule suggests an imminent drop to 5th.

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04-17-2013, 11:08 AM
  #219
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In all fairness to Price, we seem to always collapse in the last two weeks of the season. I don't have time to compile the stats and it may be just an impression but I don't remember a strong finish in recent history. This year is no exception as the schedule suggests an imminent drop to 5th.
actually we did in 2007-2008 when we finished first in the Eastern Conference...our last 10 game record was 8-1-1

but yea habs have a history of collapsing at season's end.

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04-17-2013, 11:25 AM
  #220
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From Elliotte Friedman's 30 Thoughts:

Quote:
Texted a goalie coach Monday night about Carey Price. Asked what he thought. He thought I was overreacting. "He will be fine," was the reply. "I truly believe that." Entering last Saturday's game, Price had a .927 save percentage at even strength, which is good. (It's down to .923 after two ugly performances.) But, both he and Pekka Rinne have allowed 25 power-play goals, second-most in the NHL. No full-time starter is lower than his .811 percentage when killing penalties.

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04-17-2013, 11:31 AM
  #221
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I really don't think using Price's post-season W/L record in the playoffs is fair to him. Look at the teams he's played on:

2007-08: #1 seed (lost in round 2)
2008-09: #8 seed (lost in round 1)
2009-10: #8 seed (played 4 games, was not the starter)
2010-11: #6 seed (lost in round 1)

The only time Price has ever been on a higher seeded team was also his rookie year. The other two times (three if you include his appearances during Halak's run) he would have had to perform above the norm to win the series. Which is not impossible, of course (case in point: Halak), but it shouldn't be a knock against him (or any goalie) if they fail to. That's why they're called upsets - they're the exceptions, not the norm.

Considering the team's success this year and where Price is at in his career, I think this will be a very decisive playoffs for him. He's on a good team, he's the bonafide starter, and he has gained enough playoff experience to know what to expect. The pieces are in place for him to succeed, we'll see if he does.


Well said. I think many skeptical fans would even be willing to reset the clock on him so to speak if he could take the team to it's potential (which I think is minimum 6+ playoff wins this year) and if he could do something special then hey a lot of across-the-board concerns about clutchness would dissolve. Let's see.

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04-17-2013, 11:39 AM
  #222
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No one ever said that on the main board.... Stop with the Rask and Lundqvist love, please.
You argued that Price deserves it as much as anyone in the East. The guy might get an undeserved amount of bashing, but it's ludicrous to even suggest he has legit chances of winning the Vezina.

As for "Rask and Lundqvist" love, I'm just stating it's absurd to say they're not the top-2 favorites in the East to get it.

One thing I hate about Carey Price debates it's that it's more polarized than any debate on any one of these boards. There's no middle-ground, people are either incredibly biased for or against the guy. This is the reason why he's undeservedly such a hot topic, whether it's positive or negative. People can't be critic and rational when it comes to goalies in Montreal.

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04-17-2013, 11:50 AM
  #223
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So it's unfair to judge Price on his post-season based on how poor the teams were....but it's fair to say that Fleury was overrated based on how great his teams were? So which is it? You need to be middle of the pack to get the perfect recognition? And I don,t want to talk about him, but it is really possible that Carey suffers from the Halak comparison, 'cause Halak did wonders in the playoffs with same team Carey was playing for. So people are indeed expecting to see Carey doing the same type of miracles.

And can people stop with the rank we were in? People do realize that you have a better shot at knowing your team's value by going with the points instead? Was our 1st with Carbo, only leading the 8th place team by 10 points, just as good a 1st rank as any team with 20+points on the 8th place?

Oh and by the way.....people who always comes up with some excuses for Carey will come out with the fact that we lost Emelin, hence having a terrible D because of that. So don't worry...there's nothing like a decisive playoffs for him this year. Personnally, for another reason, I don't think it is decisive based on how that season went, short season, fatigue factor higher for some, lower for others and so on. I would say that next year is THE decisive factor. We will be good enough to make the playoffs. And we will need to go further than we did lately except this 3rd round.

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04-17-2013, 11:52 AM
  #224
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
You argued that Price deserves it as much as anyone in the East. The guy might get an undeserved amount of bashing, but it's ludicrous to even suggest he has legit chances of winning the Vezina.

As for "Rask and Lundqvist" love, I'm just stating it's absurd to say they're not the top-2 favorites in the East to get it.

One thing I hate about Carey Price debates it's that it's more polarized than any debate on any one of these boards. There's no middle-ground, people are either incredibly biased for or against the guy. This is the reason why he's undeservedly such a hot topic, whether it's positive or negative. People can't be critic and rational when it comes to goalies in Montreal.
The reason the argument is polarized is simple. From the time he was drafted there has been an army of people who refuse to discuss any particular play, any particular weakness in his game, slumps, etc.

The arguments : "He's only [22,23,24,25] , stats don't tell the story, now s-t-f-u hater". Real infuriating stuff. With no fewer than 3 active Price threads at any one time, with "Price for Vezina" threads up after 10-15 games every year, this guy has been hyped (albeit mostly on this board, not others) more than Doug Wickenheiser and Alex Kovalev combined.

I don't see anyone who truly hates Price, I don't recall anyone suggesting he be traded, only those with concerns he's not as good as the legend that was created on potential.


Yours Truly,
Ready-to-have-my-concerns-silenced-by-a-3-round-playoff-run

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04-17-2013, 11:58 AM
  #225
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Carey Price has a ES better save percentage then Peter Budaj (.921 vs .914) but a worse SH save percentage (.821 vs .927).

Here's a thought - should we play Price when we're at ES and Budaj when SH?

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