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Top Russian players of the 70s

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Old
04-14-2013, 11:42 AM
  #26
Sentinel
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Then it's not fair to Makarov. He hasn't reached his prime yet.

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04-14-2013, 11:58 AM
  #27
Darth Yoda
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
Then it's not fair to Makarov. He hasn't reached his prime yet.
Sure, but i believe it's even harder to find Super Series-stats from the eighties, when i believe the status of the games lessened, but still i would like to have them too.

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04-14-2013, 12:16 PM
  #28
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Seriously? I hope you are wrong and somebody kept track. Those were some amazing games, like CSKA-Oilers in 85, CSKA-Canadians in 90, etc.

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04-14-2013, 12:50 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
Seriously? I hope you are wrong and somebody kept track. Those were some amazing games, like CSKA-Oilers in 85, CSKA-Canadians in 90, etc.
No they probably exist but it's like nobody have cared about them since it's not on the internet. I suspect that SIHR has got them, but i wont pay whatever they want for membership to get them out in the open. Strange that no-one here seem to be members there either so they can check.

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04-15-2013, 11:35 AM
  #30
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This is my list. I will include players who played at least two of their active years in the 1970's. Therefore players such as Sergei Makarov and Vyacheslav Fetisov who had their prime in the 1980's are included. So are players who played their best years in the 1960's such as Anatoli Firsov and Viktor Kuzkin.

I will not even try to form any rankings as I will only put all the players in group of forwards, defensemen and goalies.

Goalies: Vladislav Tretyak, Vladimir Myshkin, Sergei Mylnikov, Alexander Sidelnikov

Defensemen: Valeri Vasilyev, Gennadi Tsygankov, Vladimir Luchenko, Alexander Gusev, Yuri Lyapkin, Vyacheslav Fetisov, Zinetula Bilyaletdinov, Sergei Babinov, Vasili Pervukhin, Sergei Starikov, Alexei Kasatonov, Alexei Volchenkov, Sergei Gimayev, Nikolai Makarov, Yuri Fedorov, Evgeny Paladyev, Viktor Kuzkin, Alexander Ragulin, Vitali Davydov, Vladimir Krikunov, Viktor Kuznetsov, Alexander Filippov

Forwards: Valeri Kharlamov, Vladimir Petrov, Boris Mikhailov, Anatoli Firsov, Alexander Maltsev, Vladimir Vikulov, Alexander Yakushev, Vladimir Shadrin, Viktor Shalimov, Evgeny Zimin, Sergei Kapustin, Viktor Zhluktov, Helmut Balderis, Vladimir Golikov, Alexander Golikov, Sergei Makarov, Yuri Lebedev, Vyacheslav Anisin, Alexander Bodukov, Mikhail Varnakov, Vladimir Kovin, Alexander Skvortsov, Valeri Belousov, Irek Gimayev, Boris Alexandrov, Anatoli Antipov, Vladimir Lavrentyev, Viktor Tyumenev, Konstantin Klimov, Viktor Yaroslavtsev,


Last edited by Peter25: 04-15-2013 at 02:43 PM.
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04-15-2013, 12:05 PM
  #31
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Most Russians I have spoken with say the best was Kharlamov.

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04-15-2013, 12:20 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
Then it's not fair to Makarov. He hasn't reached his prime yet.
You asked for the best players of the 70s. I wouldn't include Makarov anyway, I just put him in for sake of comparison.

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04-15-2013, 01:07 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
Most Russians I have spoken with say the best was Kharlamov.
But that's because they use a largely different point of reference. They don't pay as much attention to statistics as North Americans, and since CSKA and USSR were always expected to win, winning was not everything either. Again, some reasons for Kharlamov's glory:

1. Art and creativity. Same reason why Datsyuk is revered in Russia far more than Malkin.

2. Skill. Kharlamov did things nobody else could do. Again, Datsyuk over Malkin is a similar scenario.

3. Summit Series legend. Clarke's slash, led the team prior to that, etc.

4. Tragic death.


Last edited by Sentinel: 04-16-2013 at 09:58 AM.
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04-15-2013, 11:28 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
But that's because they use a largely different point of reference. They don't pay as much attention to statistics as North Americans, and since CSKA and USSR were always expected to win, winning was not everything either. Again, some reason for Kharlamov's glory:

1. Art and creativity. Same reason why Datsyuk is revered in Russia far more than Malkin.

2. Skill. Kharlamov did things nobody else could do. Again, Datsyuk over Malkin is a similar scenario.

3. Summit Series legend. Clarke's slash, led the team prior to that, etc.

4. Tragic death.
What you say is all true and a memory is hard to compete against for some people.

Howie Morenz tends to get over rated for similar reasons IMO.

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Old
04-16-2013, 10:28 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
Seriously? I hope you are wrong and somebody kept track. Those were some amazing games, like CSKA-Oilers in 85, CSKA-Canadians in 90, etc.
There is a Wikipedia page that has complete results for all Super Series games from '75-76 to 90-91, the last year of such competition. CSKA beat the Edmonton Oilers 6-3 in 1985, and CSKA-Canadiens did not play each other in 90-91 (the Canadiens lost to Khimik Voskresensk, 6-3, during that year).

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04-16-2013, 10:43 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
But that's because they use a largely different point of reference. They don't pay as much attention to statistics as North Americans, and since CSKA and USSR were always expected to win, winning was not everything either. Again, some reasons for Kharlamov's glory:

1. Art and creativity. Same reason why Datsyuk is revered in Russia far more than Malkin.

2. Skill. Kharlamov did things nobody else could do. Again, Datsyuk over Malkin is a similar scenario.

3. Summit Series legend. Clarke's slash, led the team prior to that, etc.

4. Tragic death.
There are other reasons too:

(1) Check out the play involving Kharlamov in the December 1975 match with the New York Rangers on YouTube. Kharlamov approaches the blue line where there are four Rangers defenders lined up side-by-side. Kharlamov fakes outside in and walks through the mass of Ranger bodies untouched. Then he walks in on John Davidson in goal and beats him cleanly. Throughout the entire play, the only thing that ever gets touched is the back of the net by the puck.

(2) The psychological turning point of the '72 series arguably came early in the Second Period of Game 1 at the Forum when Kharlamov came in alone against Don Awrey and Brad Seiling of Canada. He dipped his shoulder to the inside and then blasted by them to the outside, a la Bobby Orr, and walked in and beat Dryden almost before you could blink an eye. Team Canada clearly sagged after that, obviously grappling with the fact that the Soviets were far better than they ever dreamed.

I would put Kharlamov as being unstoppable, in the same mold as Bobby Orr.

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04-16-2013, 10:53 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by VMBM View Post
IMO Yakushev shouldn't even be in this discussion. He was great in 1972 (in the last 3 games really) and had a very nice career, but I don't think he was as good as any of the other three you mentioned or Maltsev.
Yakushev charismatic and artistic? Oookay. An opinion is an opinion. I think he was a fairly one-dimensional goal-scorer.

And I don't understand why you left Petrov out of the leadership discussion; he was definitely among the 'bosses' in CSKA and ntl team (in his book, Viktor Tikhonov mentions Mikhailov, Petrov and Gennady Tsygankov as the players who were 'in charge' in CSKA); he centered CSKA's/USSR's top line; you have to have leadership qualities to do that. Petrov had some problems with the coaches/authorities and probably thus was never even assistant captain. After his playing career, though, he was e.g. the President of Russian Ice Hockey Federation for a couple of years in the 1990s.



The official stats have him scoring five points (all assists) in the eight games. He also might have deflected a couple of shots in which he didn't get credit for (games 5 and 8). However, he indeed was a disappointment in 1972, and I don't remember him ever being a great clutch player - either against Canada or Czechoslovakia. Still, I believe he is widely considered to be a better player than Petrov, for example.

My top 10 forwards would be:

Kharlamov
Mikhailov
Maltsev
Petrov
Yakushev
Balderis

Vikulov
Kapustin
Shadrin
Shalimov

It was getting pretty tough towards the end!
All the forwards you list are truly great, but Yakushev was clearly the most valuable Soviet forward in the '72 series. Kharlamov might have eclipsed him if he didn't break his ankle on Bobby Clarke's stick (lol). In the '74 series, Yakushev played with a broken leg (fractured femur), but still managed to be a leading scorer. When Viktor Tikhonov took over the national team in '76, Spartak players like Yakushev suddenly found themselves cleared off the NT roster.

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04-17-2013, 12:37 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
All the forwards you list are truly great, but Yakushev was clearly the most valuable Soviet forward in the '72 series. Kharlamov might have eclipsed him if he didn't break his ankle on Bobby Clarke's stick (lol). In the '74 series, Yakushev played with a broken leg (fractured femur), but still managed to be a leading scorer. When Viktor Tikhonov took over the national team in '76, Spartak players like Yakushev suddenly found themselves cleared off the NT roster.
Bolded. Who's arguing?

I don't think the debate should be about who the best Soviet player in the 1972 Summit Series was. And the 1974 WHA Summit isn't an awfully important series IMO. I think that as an opponent, WHA's Team Canada was something like "worse than Czechoslovakia but somewhat better than Sweden". Yakushev clearly had the size & style suited for the North American game and probably would've been a star in the NHL, but that isn't a huge deal for me.

BTW, Yakushev still played in the 1977 WC (Kulagin as the HC) and in the 1979 WC (Tikhonov as the HC).


Last edited by VMBM: 04-17-2013 at 02:01 AM.
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Old
04-17-2013, 10:56 AM
  #39
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Bolded. Who's arguing?

I don't think the debate should be about who the best Soviet player in the 1972 Summit Series was. And the 1974 WHA Summit isn't an awfully important series IMO. I think that as an opponent, WHA's Team Canada was something like "worse than Czechoslovakia but somewhat better than Sweden". Yakushev clearly had the size & style suited for the North American game and probably would've been a star in the NHL, but that isn't a huge deal for me.

BTW, Yakushev still played in the 1977 WC (Kulagin as the HC) and in the 1979 WC (Tikhonov as the HC).
I knew that Yakushev played in the '79 WC, but he seemed to be missing from too many other international series' ('76 CC and '79 Challenge Cup) where his talent and productivity would have been useful. I have heard it said that Tikhonov wasn't too fond of the brain trust at Spartak, but I suppose there could have been other explanations.

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04-17-2013, 01:11 PM
  #40
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I would not belittle the WHA team. It sounds too much like "Oh, the Soviets beat the Canadians, must have not been a very good team."

Yakushev was clutch, a leader, a sniper, and a power forward. The only reason why Mikhailov and Petrov could be ranked higher is because of their consistency, although they were feeding off each other.

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