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Detroit's #1 plus smith for your top 10 pick

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Old
04-17-2013, 01:10 PM
  #26
DamonDRW
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Once again, because a guy didnt step in as a rookie and be Lidstrom, some Detroit fans are willing to throw him out to move up 7-10 spaces in a draft.

Very short way of thinking.
We have Almquist, Sproul, Ouelett, Backman, Nedomlel, Marchenko, Jensen coming in the next few years. So why not to add some 1C/2C prospect at the expense of one of our defs?

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04-17-2013, 01:16 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by GoofSlashFoig View Post
Wasn't there a thread where Wings fans proclaimed that Smith was already better than EJ? What a joke.
IIRC many were saying he will be better.

Which is possible but I'd give the edge to Johnson.

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04-17-2013, 01:21 PM
  #28
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Wings fan here and given the arrival of DeKeyser I have no problem packaging Smith and more to get a top 3 pick. The wings need a franchise forward moreso than D and if they can put together Smith, Nyquist, and another player plus their 1st pick that would be ideal for the Wings. Will whomever has the 2nd or 3rd pick want to do it?

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04-17-2013, 02:09 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus View Post
Wings fan here and given the arrival of DeKeyser I have no problem packaging Smith and more to get a top 3 pick. The wings need a franchise forward moreso than D and if they can put together Smith, Nyquist, and another player plus their 1st pick that would be ideal for the Wings. Will whomever has the 2nd or 3rd pick want to do it?
Only if the Wings would give that kid a legit chance to play as an 18 or 19 year old. I would love it if we could grab Lindholm, it would be cool to see the Euro Cousins for the next 10-12 years.

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04-17-2013, 02:58 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by DamonDRW View Post
We have Almquist, Sproul, Ouelett, Backman, Nedomlel, Marchenko, Jensen coming in the next few years. So why not to add some 1C/2C prospect at the expense of one of our defs?
Why eliminate one of your better assets to move up a few spots in a draft? We dont know what those other guys are going to do at the NHL level. In fact, we dont know what Smith is going to do at that level. What we do know is Smith is getting his feet wet and he shows signs of being a real good player combined with his mistakes. He over skates things. Typical with younger guys getting used to the speed at the NHL level. He's going to be fine. Whether that ends up being top 4 or top 2 is the only thing that will sort itself out.

You dont move guys like him to move up 7-10 spots in a draft.

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04-17-2013, 03:06 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Why eliminate one of your better assets to move up a few spots in a draft? We dont know what those other guys are going to do at the NHL level. In fact, we dont know what Smith is going to do at that level. What we do know is Smith is getting his feet wet and he shows signs of being a real good player combined with his mistakes. He over skates things. Typical with younger guys getting used to the speed at the NHL level. He's going to be fine. Whether that ends up being top 4 or top 2 is the only thing that will sort itself out.

You dont move guys like him to move up 7-10 spots in a draft.
Which is why you don't make the move but there is some logic to it & I'd hope they would at least discuss it. Like I said we'd be trying to account for a hole that we currently don't have, I like to think of it as picking for need at the draft, while we create another one in the present.

It really depends on if you feel that Smith has lost that top pairing potential or not, or if you feel that the Dmen coming up, Ouellet/Backman mainly, will be NHL ready in 1-2 years and you fell that they can replace what Smith would have done, at least partly, then it's definitly plausible. If you feel that way then losing Smith but picking up someone with top line potential. either as #1C or as a high end winger, it may be worth the risk.


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04-17-2013, 03:08 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus View Post
Wings fan here and given the arrival of DeKeyser I have no problem packaging Smith and more to get a top 3 pick. The wings need a franchise forward moreso than D and if they can put together Smith, Nyquist, and another player plus their 1st pick that would be ideal for the Wings. Will whomever has the 2nd or 3rd pick want to do it?
Why do the Wings move 2 NHL players and a first for a potential NHL player? More importantly, why would the Wings move a top 6 player AND significant assets to get... another top 6 player? Mind asplode.

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04-17-2013, 03:10 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
It really depends on if you feel that Smith has lost that top pairing potential or not, or if you feel that the Dmen coming up, Ouellet/Backman mainly, will be NHL ready in 1-2 years. If you feel that way then losing Smith but picking up someone with top line potential. either as #1C or as a high end winger, it may be worth the risk.
This is old, old thinking. It literally goes like this: "Crap! This guy isn't any good. Let's trade him to another team!" That last worked in the early 2000s or so.

The problem is... the other team knows he isn't any good either. They have scouts. So either you find yourself in a situation where the other team doesn't want to acquire him (or won't pay your price) or they DO want to acquire him and you should question your initial judgment of how bad he is. It's just not the league of stupid GMs and bad scouts that this forum seems to think. Well, aside from Calgary.

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04-17-2013, 03:33 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
This is old, old thinking. It literally goes like this: "Crap! This guy isn't any good. Let's trade him to another team!" That last worked in the early 2000s or so.

The problem is... the other team knows he isn't any good either. They have scouts. So either you find yourself in a situation where the other team doesn't want to acquire him (or won't pay your price) or they DO want to acquire him and you should question your initial judgment of how bad he is. It's just not the league of stupid GMs and bad scouts that this forum seems to think. Well, aside from Calgary.
It depends. You could have 2 scouts from the same team fell that 1 player has plateaued while the other may fell he still has room to grow. Same way how fans can see the same player and have differing opinions, we sometimes see a player too many times so we start picking up on the small faults in their game to the point that we start to think they're not as good as they really are (same reason why scouts only want to see a guy 3-5 times).

It's all risk vs reward, though in this instance you can have 2 winners, both teams get a player they need now and in the future. I wouldn't do the trade just because I'll take what I know in Smith & I think that a very good player will fall on draft day.

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04-17-2013, 03:56 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus View Post
Wings fan here and given the arrival of DeKeyser I have no problem packaging Smith and more to get a top 3 pick. The wings need a franchise forward moreso than D and if they can put together Smith, Nyquist, and another player plus their 1st pick that would be ideal for the Wings. Will whomever has the 2nd or 3rd pick want to do it?
Depending on the other player and knowing Smith and Nyquist would be resigned on reasonable contracts, if the Avs made a move from #3or4 for Smith+1st+Nyquist+______ I'd probably not be upset at all.

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04-17-2013, 04:30 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Soft Rock Renegade View Post
detroits looking to have a pick in the 13-18 range but wants to move into the top 10 to grab a center or goal scoring winger (such as monahan, barkov, lindholm). teams that might have that kind of pick and need help on defense include Philly and Edmonton. are there other teams out there? if you're a fan of these teams, does this kind of trade interest you? brendan smith has been disappointing this year but has at least second pairing/1st pp unit potential.
I doubt you get nto the to 6. I see those 3 you mention would be 4-6 in the draft.


It all depends on where Detroit's ends up and who they trade with.

I think quite a few teams who don't feel they need a center or Dman and none of the top 6 fall out, the tems 7-9 would listen to this offer.

It is more likely if Detroit just misses the playoffs at 14.

Philly would do it, buffalo would do it, Tampa would do it. Those teams also could easily try t move up to 3-6 to take a player the target. Sch a deal would happen when they are n the clock.

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04-17-2013, 06:32 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
I doubt you get nto the to 6. I see those 3 you mention would be 4-6 in the draft.


It all depends on where Detroit's ends up and who they trade with.

I think quite a few teams who don't feel they need a center or Dman and none of the top 6 fall out, the tems 7-9 would listen to this offer.

It is more likely if Detroit just misses the playoffs at 14.

Philly would do it, buffalo would do it, Tampa would do it. Those teams also could easily try t move up to 3-6 to take a player the target. Sch a deal would happen when they are n the clock.
I agree with the bolded. The other thing that has to happen is a guy the Wings feel is the #1-3 ranked have to fall, or somebody they feel has more upside then Smith at their respective position. It's why I think it'd only be for Lindholm/Barkov/Nichushkin (if we drafted Russians) they all have #1C or elite W potential, I can't see Drouin/Mack/Jones falling to where the other team would give up their pick.

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04-17-2013, 08:19 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
I agree with the bolded. The other thing that has to happen is a guy the Wings feel is the #1-3 ranked have to fall, or somebody they feel has more upside then Smith at their respective position. It's why I think it'd only be for Lindholm/Barkov/Nichushkin (if we drafted Russians) they all have #1C or elite W potential, I can't see Drouin/Mack/Jones falling to where the other team would give up their pick.
I know if Buffalo was in that 6-9 range they would not trade their pick if Lindholm/Barkov/Nichushkin was available in their spot. If those people were gone when they picked they would consider moving down.

Detroit would really need to shoot for #5. That is going to be very difficult.

The team they need to target is a team who is looking to win now so they do not want to have to wait 2+ yrs for this pick to become a player on their team.

Another factor is based on draft scenarios...if the team picking isnt looking for Center or Defense they may be more inclined to move down and pick a winger. Outised of Drouin their isnt any other winger lited in the top 10, but more listed in 11-20.

they would rather get pieces who could play now, but they wont be hurt by picking 13-16. 13-16 player could be just as good as a player drafted 7-10.

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04-17-2013, 08:37 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
I know if Buffalo was in that 6-9 range they would not trade their pick if Lindholm/Barkov/Nichushkin was available in their spot. If those people were gone when they picked they would consider moving down.

Detroit would really need to shoot for #5. That is going to be very difficult.

The team they need to target is a team who is looking to win now so they do not want to have to wait 2+ yrs for this pick to become a player on their team.

Another factor is based on draft scenarios...if the team picking isnt looking for Center or Defense they may be more inclined to move down and pick a winger. Outised of Drouin their isnt any other winger lited in the top 10, but more listed in 11-20.

they would rather get pieces who could play now, but they wont be hurt by picking 13-16. 13-16 player could be just as good as a player drafted 7-10.
There is Shinkaruk but if he gets taking in the top 5 it's a bit of an off the wall pick, though not a reach imo everyone in the top 7 or 8 has traits that would have them in the top 5 in any other year.

I'm not really a fan of trading up if it involves Smith because of the hole it opens up now and it's filling a need we may or may not have in 4/5 years. There's too much risk for my liking but others may feel differently about it.

You'd have to have a team that's picking in the top 5/6 that wants a dman but doesn't like Nurse & doesn't like any of the forwards available at that spot, they also would have to believe in Smith reaching his upside. They might feel that they can get one of their guys at 18th overall & pick up Smith, so in their minds that trade is > then their original pick.

It won't happen but it's fun to speculate non the less. I actually think that depending on who they picked both fanbases would be equal mad at their Gms.

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04-17-2013, 10:52 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by supert View Post
I would say the Oilers past . The way we are dropping in the standings We can get our much needed 2 C with size . With our young D coming up i think with a big 2 C and redo our bottom 6 . We will be a much better team . The we can trade Gagner for a D man to do use for a while . Get Potter the **** off the Ice
I kind of agree. I also do not think the OP is off base of suggesting the Oilers would be a target for Detroit to talk to. I just believe the Oilers are high on some of our D- prospects in the system and looking to add VETERAN d-men thru trade or FA. Our biggest issue is at centre and it cost us this year more than the lack of quality depth in defense (which is an obvious need as well). We could also use better goaltending. But i would say a stronger Pivot position makes defense look better and puck possession better which makes your wings more effective.

I can see us pushing to acquire a VETERAN, PROVEN, POLISHED, dman this summer --hopefully with a Right Shot. Smith is not that guy.

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04-18-2013, 12:29 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post

I can see us pushing to acquire a VETERAN, PROVEN, POLISHED, dman this summer --hopefully with a Right Shot. Smith is not that guy.
Other than a team trying to dump salary for next year so a player is available like Hjal in Chicago, in order to get a defenseman like that the Oilers will have to give up one of their top 4. Will not get that with Hemsky.

You may be able to get something for Gagner---but not a teams top 2 Dmen. You need to look at a team with depth who could sacrifice their #3 and their #3 would be a solid #2/potential #1 on other teams.

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Old
04-18-2013, 12:55 AM
  #42
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This is a terrible idea, but I guess it would end the Kenny isn't aggressive stuff, of course I would be really mad at him for this.

Smith has had a disappointing rookie season, so what the skill set is there, he just needs to get his skating back, have no idea what is going on there but he has lost half a step. Give him the summer to work on some things.

It looks like we are drafting as high as we ever have anyway this year. It is intriguing if it is for a Monohan/Barkov/Lindholm but I think Smith is too much along with the first pick in terms of value.

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