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Phoenix LXXIV: Be Seeing You

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Old
04-16-2013, 10:58 PM
  #626
aqib
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
On Sportsnet, the Insiders just said:

The NHL and the potential owners will be negotiating a lease (together) in the next 2 weeks. They will be using Seattle as the threat for relocation.
I don't think this council will be bullied as easily as the last one will. Many of the new folks ran on an anti-subsidy platform.

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It's fortnight around here, please.
We ARE gentlemen around here after all

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04-16-2013, 11:03 PM
  #627
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We ARE gentlemen around here after all
A lady or two as well.

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04-16-2013, 11:25 PM
  #628
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Well, how could Seattle possibly be a threat? The NBA is delaying (til next week at the earliest) any decision on the sale of the Kings to Hansen or the local Sacramento group, a bidding war seemingly taking place much to the Maloof's glee Im sure, and if Hansen gets denied (and this could easily turn into a PR nightmare for the NBA if they approve a relo sale) then what? Hansens going to buy the Coyotes and install them as the sole tenant of the new arena? He's got it all dialled in & ready to go at Key for October? Wont mind eating major losses for the next 3yrs or so while the new arenas' being built? This is a "threat" to Glendale?

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:27 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by Mightygoose View Post
With the Sac Kings vote being delayed, does this extend the verdict for the Yotes?

http://www.sacbee.com/2013/04/16/534...-nba-vote.html

Otherwise we'll hear more rhetoric for the gallery of the prospective wannabe owners. After all, what's another........two weeks?
As per Fugu's request...

Be seeing you!


Last edited by Llama19: 06-08-2013 at 05:31 PM.
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Old
04-16-2013, 11:33 PM
  #630
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
So, Burke and Gluckstern were the original owners in PHX, playing downtown in Colangelo's arena? I didn't know that. I thought Colangelo bought the team when it moved to PHX.
I've seen some say Colangelo had a share in ownership. But regardless it was one of the reasons why playing downtown hurt them. They got no revenue from the arena. All that went to Colangelo.


Last edited by TheLegend: 04-16-2013 at 11:45 PM.
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04-17-2013, 12:37 AM
  #631
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They got no revenue from the arena. All that went to Colangelo.
Ya, it was great for Jerry Colangelo, lousy for the Coyotes who were essentially playing for the gate & the gate alone. The guys done some great things for sports in Phoenix, but here, his munificence was sorely lacking. In postscript interviews after the team had left, Moyes had entered into bankruptcy etc, a few reticent comments tinged with regret. He talked the talk but failed to walk the walk, step up to the plate when it really mattered, counted.

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04-17-2013, 06:15 AM
  #632
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Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
As per Fugu's request...

Be seeing you!

Ahh, much I have still to learn about the living force on these board's

B.C.N.U. I'll get it right one of these days

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04-17-2013, 06:56 AM
  #633
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Ya, it was great for Jerry Colangelo, lousy for the Coyotes who were essentially playing for the gate & the gate alone. The guys done some great things for sports in Phoenix, but here, his munificence was sorely lacking. In postscript interviews after the team had left, Moyes had entered into bankruptcy etc, a few reticent comments tinged with regret. He talked the talk but failed to walk the walk, step up to the plate when it really mattered, counted.
In defense of Jerry C.... I recall reading an article/interview in the AZ Republic which he was willing to work the situation out at first but was really turned off by either Burke or Gluckstern when they tried to tell him how to run the arena.

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04-17-2013, 10:16 AM
  #634
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On Seattle Arena topic people are reporting that the delay is due to the fact that there is an NBA rule that requires them to take the vote at least 7 days after a recommendation has been issued (and the recommendation comitee is holding a reuinion tomorrow or something like that) and at most 30 days after such recommendation.

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04-17-2013, 10:53 AM
  #635
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Originally Posted by aqib View Post
It gets tossed around here a lot that PKP may/is/will play hardball with the NHL. Where does this come from? Is it just something people throw out or is there any source/link/real information that would indicate that thats the case?
As far as I can tell, this and practically everything else to do with a PKP bid for a franchise is pure speculation without a shred of publicly available information in support.

Has PKP made any direct enquiries about the purchase of the Coyotes? Speculation.

Has the NHL mentioned a particular price they are seeking? Speculation.

What price has the NHL asked for the Coyotes? Speculation.

Has PKP made an offer? Speculation.

What price has PKP offered? Speculation?

Is a deal already in place to be announced later? Speculation.

If a deal is not in place, is price an issue? Speculation.

If price is an issue, is PKP playing hardball? Speculation.

If price is an issue, would one or both sides likely compromise their position to reach an agreement? Speculation.

If PKP were once interested in buying the Coyotes, is he still actively pursuing a purchase? Speculation.

Is the NHL genuinely interested in keeping the Coyotes under league ownership in Glendale for another season?

Is there a viable purchaser to keep the Coyotes in Glendale? Speculation.

Is there a viable purchaser available to move the Coyotes anywhere else? Speculation.

If there are any publicly available facts that would answer any of these questions, please correct me. Otherwise, pretty much everything to do with the ownership of the Coyotes is nothing but speculation.

I speculate that PKP doesn't want to pay the NHL's asking price. That would explain realignment that does not reserve a spot for Quebec in the East, and why a deal has not yet closed.

In the absence of any known facts, there are other possible explanations that are no more or less probable.

The NHL's gong show invites this kind of speculation. For anyone interested in this dreary saga, there's nothing else to do but speculate.

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04-17-2013, 11:04 AM
  #636
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Originally Posted by Vinc360 View Post
They'll take it when it's available. I'm sure they wouldn't risk passing up on a franchise and end up stuck without one later on.
TNSE (now owners of the Jets) were asked about buying Nashville when they went through their ownership issues 5-6 years ago. The proposal was that TNSE would buy the team, operate them in Nashville for a year, then relocate the team to Winnipeg.

TNSE turned the NHL down. They did not want to operate a team in a different market.

The moral of this story? The NHL has a lot of clout, but people can and do say no when offered a team. No one - not PKP, not potential Seattle ownership, will buy a team if it doesn't make economic sense for them to do so.

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04-17-2013, 11:14 AM
  #637
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Originally Posted by Yukon Joe View Post
TNSE (now owners of the Jets) were asked about buying Nashville when they went through their ownership issues 5-6 years ago. The proposal was that TNSE would buy the team, operate them in Nashville for a year, then relocate the team to Winnipeg.

TNSE turned the NHL down. They did not want to operate a team in a different market.

The moral of this story? The NHL has a lot of clout, but people can and do say no when offered a team. No one - not PKP, not potential Seattle ownership, will buy a team if it doesn't make economic sense for them to do so.
Never heard that story ever before. Sounds extremely made up.

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Old
04-17-2013, 11:22 AM
  #638
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Originally Posted by Yukon Joe View Post
TNSE (now owners of the Jets) were asked about buying Nashville when they went through their ownership issues 5-6 years ago. The proposal was that TNSE would buy the team, operate them in Nashville for a year, then relocate the team to Winnipeg.

TNSE turned the NHL down. They did not want to operate a team in a different market.

The moral of this story? The NHL has a lot of clout, but people can and do say no when offered a team. No one - not PKP, not potential Seattle ownership, will buy a team if it doesn't make economic sense for them to do so.
Never heard of that one. I'm stunned.

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Old
04-17-2013, 11:34 AM
  #639
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In defense of Jerry C.... I recall reading an article/interview in the AZ Republic which he was willing to work the situation out at first but was really turned off by either Burke or Gluckstern when they tried to tell him how to run the arena.
Its a rather murky situation, but from what I can re-call Burke & Gluckstern bought the franchise for $65M in 96, losing somewhere around $10M-$15M per annum at the AWA at a time when their payroll was around $30M circa 96/97 through 1999. Gluckstern was bought out in 98. It was obvious the team needed to get out of the AWA & into their own building in order to make a go of it or possibly move yet again, enter Steve Ellman who wanted to use the team as the centrepiece or hook to development schemes however even then he was seriously cash strapped. Burke's price was $87M, and heres where it really goes sideways;

Ellman; puts down $10M of his own money, secures another $17M from private investors, then borrows $60M from Burke through the Coyotes private holdings bank called Societie General, returning the $60M to Burke (returned to SG how, when, with what funds is anyones guess), who after leaving the scene purchases the NY Islanders, later selling them to Charles Wang. So now with the team in his pocket, Ellman first approaches Scottsdale where he receives voter approval for a $600M+ arena & commercial real estate development however, the city of Scottsdale in doing its due-dilly asks Steve to provide financials, open his books to prove he's got the financial wherewithal to finance the project. Ellman flat out refuses, telling Scottsdale his business is private, go fly a kite.

Talks break-off & stall, often for weeks & months at a time as a result, Ellman approaching Tempe, where in conjunction with the University a full-on indoor sports facility including an arena, commercial etc is worked out, the financing for which is to be supported by a CFD from as yet non-existent merchants & businesses who would be locating to the new mall & shopping district etc, the University of course expected to supply the land gratis along with the bulk of the financing. He also discussed & negotiated a deal with the Pima Indian Band for a development on their Reservation Lands, a Casino nearby. The mind absolutely reeling in imagining the details of the financing on that particular scheme, then it was off to Glendale, the history of which is well documented here on hf & elsewhere.

So. Between Colangelo with his one-sided lease signed with two guys who really had no business owning a team in the first place & bailed at the first opportunity; two guys who had been approved & accommodated by the NHL & the BOG's and who wound up getting fleeced by Jerry at the AWA upon Gary Bettmans facilitations which precipitated this unholy mess in the first place..... then approving the sale of the franchise to a guy like Steve Ellman when it was blatantly obvious he was beyond short pocketed despite the visions of Donald Trumpian like grandeur, watching Salesman Steve there use the NHL brand & clout to basically try & extort hundreds of millions of dollars from municipalities (and of course ultimately beyond successful in doing so in Glendale)... Saying/doing nothing when he engages with the Pima's, a Sovereign Nation within a Nation which if it had been built & gone south in any way whatsoever (as can & does often happen when dealing with Native North American Indian Bands on developments, mining & or oil rights, rights of way etc etc etc) would have made his meltdown in Glendale look like someone being 2 cents short on a $5 cup of coffee at a Starbucks in comparison.... all this (and a Hell of a lot more) under Gary Bettmans watch.... I mean, who even needs this TL?


Last edited by Killion: 04-17-2013 at 11:43 AM.
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Old
04-17-2013, 11:38 AM
  #640
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Never heard that story ever before. Sounds extremely made up.
Read it repeatedly on the old Jetsowner board.

I believe it to be true. Now who knows how serious or far along the offer was, since the team ultimately was sold to local ownership. But the league and TNSE apparently did have that conversation.

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04-17-2013, 11:49 AM
  #641
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Never heard that story ever before. Sounds extremely made up.
People tend to forget or don't realize that TNSE has been after a team for a while. They started shortly after the MTS Centre was built in 2004 by approaching the NHL to sell them on their business case, and then just waiting until something became available.

TNSE has talked to the NHL about various franchises ( Nashville, Atlanta even before the Phoenix fiasco, then Phoenix, then back to Atlanta ) over the years that have popped up as being "troubled". The biggest difference is TNSE did it the politically correct way ( talk to the NHL and keep your mouth shut ) instead of the Jim Basillie way ( tell the whole world you are after a team and start selling tickets for it before you even buy it ).

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04-17-2013, 11:50 AM
  #642
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I believe it to be true. Now who knows how serious or far along the offer was, since the team ultimately was sold to local ownership. But the league and TNSE apparently did have that conversation.
Yes I recall that, and choose to believe that its absolutely a fact & true... Craig Leipold. Say no more. All you need to know right there. Damn straight he'd be pulling a number like that and Bettman wouldve absolutely facilitated & orchestrated such a sale & relocation had local ownership not surfaced.

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04-17-2013, 11:51 AM
  #643
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Originally Posted by Yukon Joe View Post
Read it repeatedly on the old Jetsowner board.

I believe it to be true. Now who knows how serious or far along the offer was, since the team ultimately was sold to local ownership. But the league and TNSE apparently did have that conversation.
Never read it once on Jetsowner. Chipman has been very open about the process he took to obtain the team. Listen to his lengthy interview with CJOB where he discusses the process, and how close he was to getting the Coyotes. Not once has he ever mentioned anything about Nashville. Sounds fishy to me.

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04-17-2013, 12:04 PM
  #644
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Only thing I read on TSNE with Nashville was that they were contacted when the Preds were in trouble. Once the local group (Freeman I beleive) came on the scene, TSNE's efforts were no more. Never anything that they had to operate in Nashville for 1 year.

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04-17-2013, 12:05 PM
  #645
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Chipman has been very open about the process he took to obtain the team. Not once has he ever mentioned anything about Nashville. Sounds fishy to me.
It was one of several options considered Im sure cheswick. To suggest it wasnt discussed as rumoured is far to creative to be BS, made-up, fictional. Its got truth written all over it. I suspect however the idea once thought through & considered by TNSE & the NHL was somewhat repugnant, a last resort if you will, but that it hadnt been discussed & considered?... I'm sure it was. Certain conspiracy theories have a ring of truth to them, beyond plausible based on one or more of the principals past activities & proclivities. In this case the NHL itself, Leipold. Just exactly the kind of act they'd have staged if push had to come shove and no one had stepped up in Tennessee. It is however your prerogative to believe otherwise. That Chipman would say nowt about it is hardly surprising. He quite likely thought the suggestion a bit too sleazy for his liking, but as he wanted to be and now is a member of the club, you dont exactly go around blabbing about the indiscretions of fellows within.

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04-17-2013, 02:11 PM
  #646
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From Glendale and Beacon :

http://www.glendaleaz.com/purchasing...ril16-2013.pdf

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04-17-2013, 02:16 PM
  #647
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So, basically we are now being told that this should all be wrapped up for a local sale by the end up the month? Hmmm...where have I heard that before? This situation is so ridiculous. I'm this... (.) ...close to really not caring how it's resolved but only that it's actually resolved right away.

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04-17-2013, 02:27 PM
  #648
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Looks like LeBlanc and Lakehead Yale would not even make the short list. They wouldn't meet the minimum qualifications in terms of experience. No wonder LeBlanc tried to cut a deal with Scruggs and city council before it got to this stage.

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04-17-2013, 02:35 PM
  #649
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Looks like LeBlanc and Lakehead Yale would not even make the short list. They wouldn't meet the minimum qualifications in terms of experience. No wonder LeBlanc tried to cut a deal with Scruggs and city council before it got to this stage.
I believe Jamison would qualify but he is really expensive . I've heard he asks for 15M a year to manage an arena

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04-17-2013, 02:36 PM
  #650
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Looks like LeBlanc and Lakehead Yale would not even make the short list. They wouldn't meet the minimum qualifications in terms of experience. No wonder LeBlanc tried to cut a deal with Scruggs and city council before it got to this stage.
LeBlanc/Gosbee and Pastor won't make the list. And Pastor wants to meet the mayor on Friday morning. Looks like a waste of everyone's time, except for the free coffee and donuts.

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