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2013 Draft: Stop winnin for MacKinnon, or Do Meth for Seth?

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04-17-2013, 12:57 PM
  #226
WhiteTrashAmerican
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Originally Posted by PublicEnemy View Post
Please see Post #216.
lol. I just think maybe Paradis woke up this teams drafting strategy in the first round a bit. Incoming Plymouth Whalers, 6-2 beanpoles with limited skill to provide "size and grit" , and family/name drafting. Possible second round picks?

It seems to be loaded with great d-man

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04-17-2013, 02:18 PM
  #227
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Just out of curiosity and to start a new thread topic cause I'm bored. Rumor is in these parts that if EDM doesn't pick first, they're gonna try to trade up for it for Seth. So say we win the lottery (not a stretch as we're tied for 3rd.) would we have any interest in trading down with Edmonton (they'd pick 7th if draft was today)?

I assume they'll probably pack it in and fall back down to a top 5 pick, but is there anything they could offer that we'd be willing to trade down for?

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04-17-2013, 02:25 PM
  #228
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It would have to be for a player plus their pick. Multiple picks in mulitple years wouldnt help us IMO.

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04-17-2013, 02:30 PM
  #229
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Exactly, but would something, say like, the 5 pick + MPS for the 1 pick be something we'd even be interested in?

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04-17-2013, 02:35 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Carolinas Identity View Post
Exactly, but would something, say like, the 5 pick + MPS for the 1 pick be something we'd even be interested in?
No. No no no no no. I wouldn't be opposed to trading down but if we come out of having the #1 pick without having a new shiny dman, then JR is actually the worst GM in the league (unless Jones inexplicably falls before the draft and we take Mackinnon, that's fine too).

Justin Schultz would have to be a part of the package. If we can't work something out that's fair, take Seth Jones and RUN.

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04-17-2013, 02:37 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
No. No no no no no. I wouldn't be opposed to trading down but if we come out of having the #1 pick without having a new shiny dman, then JR is actually the worst GM in the league (unless Jones inexplicably falls before the draft and we take Mackinnon, that's fine too).

Justin Schultz would have to be a part of the package. If we can't work something out that's fair, take Seth Jones and RUN.
Jones//Faulk would be pretty studly for the next 12-15 years

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04-17-2013, 02:38 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
No. No no no no no. I wouldn't be opposed to trading down but if we come out of having the #1 pick without having a new shiny dman, then JR is actually the worst GM in the league (unless Jones inexplicably falls before the draft and we take Mackinnon, that's fine too).

Justin Schultz would have to be a part of the package. If we can't work something out that's fair, take Seth Jones and RUN.
Thats probably why EDM isnt a fit for a trading partner.....they need Dmen too.

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04-17-2013, 02:59 PM
  #233
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Smid+Petry would do it for me, maybe Smid+Eberle if they want the pick outright without a trade down.

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04-17-2013, 03:02 PM
  #234
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I was about to say something involving Smid. No way in hell they trade Eberle though, even for the number whatever pick.

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04-17-2013, 03:06 PM
  #235
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There isn't a D in the league I'd trade Seth Jones for outside Alex Pietrangelo or maybe Erik Karlsson.

Edit: I'd consider OEL as well.

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04-17-2013, 03:55 PM
  #236
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Did u say MAYBE EK?

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04-17-2013, 04:14 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Jussijuice View Post
There isn't a D in the league I'd trade Seth Jones for outside Alex Pietrangelo or maybe Erik Karlsson.

Edit: I'd consider OEL as well.
I think there are a couple more I'd trade him for than that, but I understand what you're saying.

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04-17-2013, 04:18 PM
  #238
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I love Seth Jones but I'd trade him for Karlsson. That's probably it. Subban and Pietrangelo are probably the only other two I even think about.

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04-17-2013, 04:21 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Chicago Made Punk View Post
I love Seth Jones but I'd trade him for Karlsson. That's probably it. Subban and Pietrangelo are probably the only other two I even think about.
I wouldn't even do Subban. Pietro, EK, and maybes on OEL and Doughty.

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04-17-2013, 04:24 PM
  #240
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I wouldn't even do Subban. Pietro, EK, and maybes on OEL and Doughty.
I just said I'd consider Subban. I wouldn't do it but it would give me pause. I like Subban over Doughty right now, though that could change I guess. PK's just had an unreal year this year. Only competition for the Norris should be Suter.

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04-17-2013, 04:24 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Sasha Cares View Post
Did u say MAYBE EK?
5'11" pure offensive D with a serious Achilles injury? Yeah I don't know.

EK is the best in the league at what he does but I do not think his ppg pace from last year is anywhere near sustainable. 50-60 long term sounds more likely. Mike Green had a couple amazing seasons too before tapering off due to injury. Karlsson is without a doubt overall better than Green, but right now is overhyped.

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04-17-2013, 04:52 PM
  #242
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Whole lotta love for a guy who hasn't even been drafted yet...

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04-17-2013, 04:57 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Cardiac_Canes View Post
Whole lotta love for a guy who hasn't even been drafted yet...
It's HFBoards. The shiny new toy is always desired.

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04-17-2013, 05:11 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Cardiac_Canes View Post
Whole lotta love for a guy who hasn't even been drafted yet...
This. I would imagine the same set of folks would have lost their **** for Victor Hedman a few years back. Not that he's not a valuable defender, but back then it would have been like saying I wouldn't trade Shea Weber, Duncan Keith, Kris Letang, etc. for him.

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04-17-2013, 05:24 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
This. I would imagine the same set of folks would have lost their **** for Victor Hedman a few years back. Not that he's not a valuable defender, but back then it would have been like saying I wouldn't trade Shea Weber, Duncan Keith, Kris Letang, etc. for him.
Fair point, though back then I wouldn't have traded him for Letang in all honesty. Keith and Weber are another matter though.

Thing though is that Jones is on another level then Hedman as a prospect IMO, and Hedman's becoming a solid #1 guy now, though it's taking a bit longer then most anticipated.

On the same note I was MUCH higher on Cowen in that draft then most people, I was fairly right on with that one and frankly I see Jones as much better overall then Cowen was in his draft year even with the injury factor removed.

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04-17-2013, 05:28 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
This. I would imagine the same set of folks would have lost their **** for Victor Hedman a few years back. Not that he's not a valuable defender, but back then it would have been like saying I wouldn't trade Shea Weber, Duncan Keith, Kris Letang, etc. for him.
Tavares was clearly the best prospect in that Draft, no question from any source.

When you have forward prospects as good as McKinnon and Drouin out there, 2 guys that made the U-20 team (usually a mark of a special forward Draft talent, of course varying by available older talent that year), and every single draft agency is still ranking Jones as the clear #1... That is powerful. I'm too lazy to go look up all the canadian draft eligible forwards that made the roster in their draft year but its a pretty good list.

Jones seamlessly transitioned into the WHL, arguably the most physical league outside the NHL/AHL, and dominated. Leading all D in the league in plus/minus while scoring almost a ppg.

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04-17-2013, 05:29 PM
  #247
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This being brought up does make me think about the value of that pick. There have to be even relatively deep teams that wouldn't mind dumping a bit of salary and getting their hands on that pick.

Chicago for instance. They're going to have to get rid of somebody, either Hjalmarsson or maybe even Seabrook. Lots of possibilities here to snag a really good roster player or maybe even two.

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04-17-2013, 05:37 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Roboturner913 View Post
This being brought up does make me think about the value of that pick. There have to be even relatively deep teams that wouldn't mind dumping a bit of salary and getting their hands on that pick.

Chicago for instance. They're going to have to get rid of somebody, either Hjalmarsson or maybe even Seabrook. Lots of possibilities here to snag a really good roster player or maybe even two.
The value in this Draft goes on for a while. Guys like Lindholm, Nischuskin, Barkov, Shinkaruk, and Monahan are all high end forwards with top line potential as well.

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04-17-2013, 05:49 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Jussijuice View Post
The value in this Draft goes on for a while. Guys like Lindholm, Nischuskin, Barkov, Shinkaruk, and Monahan are all high end forwards with top line potential as well.
That's great, if you have the right situation. Right now, I don't think they can afford to be too patient. We keep talking about how the core is in place, but the supporting players are subpar. This could be an opportunity to change that.

Also, I get a very real sense that if this team doesn't start making playoffs, and soon, fan support is going to plummet.

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04-17-2013, 06:14 PM
  #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussijuice View Post
Tavares was clearly the best prospect in that Draft, no question from any source.

When you have forward prospects as good as McKinnon and Drouin out there, 2 guys that made the U-20 team (usually a mark of a special forward Draft talent, of course varying by available older talent that year), and every single draft agency is still ranking Jones as the clear #1... That is powerful. I'm too lazy to go look up all the canadian draft eligible forwards that made the roster in their draft year but its a pretty good list.

Jones seamlessly transitioned into the WHL, arguably the most physical league outside the NHL/AHL, and dominated. Leading all D in the league in plus/minus while scoring almost a ppg.
I think you're highly mistaken regarding opinions on Hedman prior to the draft. There were MANY sources saying that Hedman was going to be the first overall pick and there was actually even a bit of uncertainty right up until the pick was made.

Quote:
NHL central scouting director E.J. McGuire said that Tavares wins out as his top-rated prospect in a tight race with Hedman.

How close?

"Oh, very close," McGuire said. "I mean, if a team wants a 'D' — like if Pittsburgh was drafting (number) 1, with (Jordan) Staal, (Evgeni) Malkin, Crosby, you take Hedman, hands down, there's no question."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gare Joyce
Going into this season, opinion among NHL scouts was divided.

Some liked forward John Tavares of the Ontario Hockey League as the first overall pick for the 2009 NHL draft; others preferred Swedish defenseman Victor Hedman. In fact, it's likely the majority saw Hedman as the probable No. 1 based on his performance at the 2008 world under-20 championship in the Czech Republic.
This was just a cursory search. I believe numerous outlets had Hedman as the best available.

This situation reminds me quite a bit of Tavares/Hedman/Duchene but the fact that the draft is about seven deep in first class prospects makes it all the more muddled. I think Jones will eventually end up going first overall, but it's not a no brainer by any stretch of the imagination. I am.... quite literally shocked at the amount of hype that Jones has developed in such a short period of time. I have always said that fortune does not favor the prospect that stays on the radar from 15 or so on up to his draft season because scouts get too long to find something they dislike. It worked perfectly for Jones, who literally jumped out of nowhere in his 16-17 year old season, than it did for MacKinnon who was playing in front of hoards of scouts since he stepped on the ice at the QMJHL and even before. Same with Tavares, who was also an exceptional player in the OHL. If you look at a player long enough, you're going to find things you don't like about that player. With Jones, the shine hasn't worn off for a lot of scouts. No doubt he is a great prospect, but it's easier to be a great prospect when you only really have to face the challenge of junior hockey as a draft eligible.

If I had the 1st overall pick, I would trade down if Jones is as valued by the scouting community as you claim. I would bump down and take MacKinnon at 2nd or 3rd overall. I believe in his game and think that too much emphasis is being placed on a WJC performance that was just as much due to roster mismanagement as anything else.

And drafting defenders is far from an exact science. Evaluating them is ridiculously challenging. In 2008 you had Schenn, Doughty, Pietrangelo, and Bogosian in a literal dead heat and every team had them ranked in various spots. Scouts had them as far and away the best followed by a secondary tier of Myers and Karlsson. The best of the bunch ended up being the last one taken. Not saying it doesn't happen the same way with forwards, but it's far less frequent that the top two or three forwards are out of order.

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