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Old
04-15-2013, 02:11 PM
  #251
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If the Bruins were not getting outstanding play from Rask and Khudobin, then I think we would have a team with maybe 2 or 3 wins in its last 10+ games.

Obviously the goalies are part of the team so it's not like they are "artificial wins" but the level of performance from the 18 skaters has been shockingly bad.

Khudobin kept Boston in the game against Buffalo for the first two periods....26 save shutout.

Khudobin stopped 45 of 47 vs Ottawa for a 3-2 Bruins win.

Rask had a 40 save shutout against New Jersey for a 1-0 win.

Rask saved 40 of 42 in the first game against Carolina.

Without outstanding goaltending performances those games or at least 3 of the 4 are probably losses.

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04-15-2013, 02:13 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Ference the Finger View Post
SO basically, what you are saying is anyone who dares to disagree with your assessment is completely wrong and there is no merit to their point of view? Because that's how it's coming across.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Many in this current thread have suggested over and over again that the majority of people calling for a change at coach are either worried about fantasy hockey or have little to no idea what they are talking about. I have a hard time comprehending the rational that Claude still has the full confidence of the locker room or that everything will work itself out. If your point is that a change RIGHT NOW would be bad for the team and that there is no way Chia makes that move anyway, then I agree and respect that opinion. But if you truly believe that Claude is an exceptional hockey coach and that his style is best suited for this team well then I have to admit I think youíre CRAZY! Sorry, but thatís just the way I see it.

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04-15-2013, 02:14 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Many in this current thread have suggested over and over again that the majority of people calling for a change at coach are either worried about fantasy hockey or have little to no idea what they are talking about. I have a hard time comprehending the rational that Claude still has the full confidence of the locker room or that everything will work itself out. If your point is that a change RIGHT NOW would be bad for the team and that there is no way Chia makes that move anyway, then I agree and respect that opinion. But if you truly believe that Claude is an exceptional hockey coach and that his style is best suited for this team well then I have to admit I think youíre CRAZY! Sorry, but thatís just the way I see it.
Fair enough. That's just not how it came across with those two posts.

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04-15-2013, 02:15 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Many in this current thread have suggested over and over again that the majority of people calling for a change at coach are either worried about fantasy hockey or have little to no idea what they are talking about. I have a hard time comprehending the rational that Claude still has the full confidence of the locker room or that everything will work itself out. If your point is that a change RIGHT NOW would be bad for the team and that there is no way Chia makes that move anyway, then I agree and respect that opinion. But if you truly believe that Claude is an exceptional hockey coach and that his style is best suited for this team well then I have to admit I think youíre CRAZY! Sorry, but thatís just the way I see it.

Could you name an available coach who would have this team in a better position in the standings?

Who's even out there?

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04-15-2013, 02:16 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Ference the Finger View Post
Talk about eating your cake and having it too. I understand that you're frustrated with the way the team is playing, but you can't take one side of an argument and use it to try to prove the exact other side of it.

You said that the fact that they were 13-2-2 to start, and 13-9-3 since proves your point that Julien has lost the team. I think what it really proves is that the Bruins played above themselves for the first six weeks, then are playing a little below themselves since. I think there are more reasonable explanations, like injuries, fatigue, and plain poor play - most likely a combination of all of them, more than tuning Julien out. I don't know what else you want. Julien has changed lines, tried different combinations, and sat guys. He's doing what coaches do. Professional athletes shouldn't need a coach to motivate them. If they can't play well without being motivated by their coach, then you are putting the spotlight on the wrong people IMO.
I actually think Julian started to lose this team at the end of last year. I think in 2010/2011 the team was hungry so they fought with everything they had regardless of the system. That is clearly no longer the case.

I simply pointed out the record over the past month and a half because some people tend to minimize how bad the team has been.

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04-15-2013, 02:17 PM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Many in this current thread have suggested over and over again that the majority of people calling for a change at coach are either worried about fantasy hockey or have little to no idea what they are talking about. I have a hard time comprehending the rational that Claude still has the full confidence of the locker room or that everything will work itself out. If your point is that a change RIGHT NOW would be bad for the team and that there is no way Chia makes that move anyway, then I agree and respect that opinion. But if you truly believe that Claude is an exceptional hockey coach and that his style is best suited for this team well then I have to admit I think youíre CRAZY! Sorry, but thatís just the way I see it.
Its OK to see it that way, but this thread has had a lot of disrespect thrown around and I am frankly tired of seeing it from everybody (not singling you out). And not just in this thread, either.

Make your points and defend them, but do it respectfully. Too much condescention and general flaming going on. THe forums are for everyone to discuss their points, but if you want to hate on somneone else's opinion, you can either argue the points or leave it alone...because people are going to start crying foul when I start moderating their wordy posts because they can't be respectful.

Then everyone can hate me instead of one another.

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04-15-2013, 02:19 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubleminor138 View Post
Its OK to see it that way, but this thread has had a lot of disrespect thrown around and I am frankly tired of seeing it from everybody (not singling you out). And not just in this thread, either.

Make your points and defend them, but do it respectfully. Too much condescention and general flaming going on. THe forums are for everyone to discuss their points, but if you want to hate on somneone else's opinion, you can either argue the points or leave it alone...because people are going to start crying foul when I start moderating their wordy posts because they can't be respectful.

Then everyone can hate me instead of one another.
We hate you anyway!

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04-15-2013, 02:19 PM
  #258
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Unfortunately, even professional athletes need motivation. The ones that are 100% self-motivated are extremely rare, and I think we only have 2 of them in Chara and Bergeron. Despite the fact that they make millions and their life is way better than 99% of the planet, once that becomes their status quo they are going to need kicks in the ass to stay on top of their game. I just feel that they're not responding to Julien's foot anymore. As I said, I am willing to give them the playoffs out of faith, but if they falter again with listless performances, a change is necessary and I believe it will happen.

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04-15-2013, 02:19 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
Could you name an available coach who would have this team in a better position in the standings?

Who's even out there?

I don't have any names but assuming that the majority of coaches out there would take full advantage of the talent at their disposal I truly believe that with Claude leaving it's addition by subtraction regardless of what coach they bring in.

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04-15-2013, 02:20 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubleminor138 View Post
Its OK to see it that way, but this thread has had a lot of disrespect thrown around and I am frankly tired of seeing it from everybody (not singling you out). And not just in this thread, either.

Make your points and defend them, but do it respectfully. Too much condescention and general flaming going on. THe forums are for everyone to discuss their points, but if you want to hate on somneone else's opinion, you can either argue the points or leave it alone...because people are going to start crying foul when I start moderating their wordy posts because they can't be respectful.

Then everyone can hate me instead of one another.
Fair enough.

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04-15-2013, 02:24 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
I don't have any names but assuming that the majority of coaches out there would take full advantage of the talent at their disposal I truly believe that with Claude leaving it's addition by subtraction regardless of what coach they bring in.
I don't know, man. Do you remember Dave Lewis and the way the team played under him? I know Julien has his warts, but to say that someone else will come in and "fix" the team is, in my opinion, mighty hopeful.

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04-15-2013, 02:32 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKH View Post
we occassionally run into Claude on the way out after games and he's very gracious and seems like an awesome guy ............
Could you put him in a cab headed out of town next time?

JK, JK.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty
When they play bad, they still win games.
I touched on this is a previous post, but not in an exactly positive way. I looks to me often times they're relying on the system too much. When they execute it, even half heatedly, it keeps them in games. A credit to Claude. But it's as if they expect their next goal will come if they just keep the total goals in the game down. If there were 4 periods I wouldn't doubt every game we lost by a single goal would end up tied or perhaps even a win. Similar to how he uses his T.Os. There always seems to Claude there might be a better time to use a timeout, then it becomes too late and he'll use it in the most obvious and dire of times. Instead of risking losing his only T.O early to try and stem an opponent's momentum, he feels the need to wait. The team plays in a similar manner.

I don't think it's even a flaw in the system as much as a drawback or side-effect. Of which can vary in severity. Let's face it, even when they're playing their best hockey they're not a team that steps on opponents' necks. Perhaps they did previously, physically, but not on the score board (other than the odd blowout). Claude coaches more of a "bust em out" scheme. They get a lead, then weather whatever storm is thrown at them. Bend but not break, katie bar the door, how ever one wants to describe it, and it works a vast majority of the time. But when it doesn't it gives opponents the confidence that they are never out of the game. The boys end up working too hard and too often in their own end, even with a lead. Perhaps (just perhaps) that's wearing them down both physically and offensively. And most of all mentally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C77
If the Bruins were not getting outstanding play from Rask and Khudobin, then I think we would have a team with maybe 2 or 3 wins in its last 10+ games.

Obviously the goalies are part of the team so it's not like they are "artificial wins" but the level of performance from the 18 skaters has been shockingly bad.
  • Khudobin kept Boston in the game against Buffalo for the first two periods....26 save shutout.
  • Khudobin stopped 45 of 47 vs Ottawa for a 3-2 Bruins win.
  • Rask had a 40 save shutout against New Jersey for a 1-0 win.
  • Rask saved 40 of 42 in the first game against Carolina.

Without outstanding goaltending performances those games or at least 3 of the 4 are probably losses.
So true,

And the one game Boychuk's stick got caught up with Rask trying to hold the post.......... we lost, by a single goal (minus the open netter). The boys are playing just well enough to stay in games. Some defenders of Claude's who are spouting stats in his defense aren't looking at the totality of the games and how they are being played. The goal tending has been exceptional, which is bolstering their record recently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty
Could you name an available coach who would have this team in a better position in the standings?

Who's even out there?
What does that have to do with what may be wrong with the team now? You first identify a problem, then you solve it, but if you must have the solution now: Dale Hunter. Happy?

Can we now go on with our thoughts about what might be wrong?

So far most of the detractors of Claude in this thread have written well thought out critques of him, the system, and how the boys have been looking on the ice.

While his ardent supporters have mostly just said:
  • Our record is good
  • You can't name a better replacement

My daughter lives in Cambridge I can't get a hold of her, sorry if I don't respond.

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Old
04-15-2013, 02:34 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by doubleminor138 View Post
I don't know, man. Do you remember Dave Lewis and the way the team played under him? I know Julien has his warts, but to say that someone else will come in and "fix" the team is, in my opinion, mighty hopeful.
I don't think Lewis had nearly the talent that Julien currently has on this team but point taken.

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04-15-2013, 02:36 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
I don't think Lewis had nearly the talent that Julien currently has on this team but point taken.
He didn't, its true. But it does illustrate the point that coaches, while they are widely available, don't always produce what you hope and expect they will. Julien came in right after Lewis and they made the playoffs.

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04-15-2013, 02:55 PM
  #265
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disfigured, hope all is well and you can get a hold of your daughter, my thoughts and prayers go out to all in Boston right now. Just a terrible thing that is happening.

I'm not an ardent CJ supporter, I jumped into this thread quite late and mostly responding to the fact that I don't think CJ has lost the room or they have tuned him out. I don't think hi system is flawless and mostly I really don't like the breakout. I can't help but to throw out the record because ultimately it's all that matters, he wins games and I think that's why he's been able to keep his job in Boston for so long. I really think it's hard to argue that point.

Prior to the Cup win I was really concerned that he might not be 'The Coach" to get this team over the hump, but even in his stubborn ways he proved me and a lot of people wrong. So maybe that's why I give him more rope.

The reason I asked for another coach was because I don't know who is out there that might be able to get more out of this lineup. This guy makes 3rd liners put up 2nd liner numbers and kind of hinders the top end guys in term of stats, but in the end they win a lot of games.

You can always be better and I thin over the past couple of years he's shown the ability to adapt quicker and make changes. I don't always agree with the decisions that he makes, but I do think that he knows this team better than any of us and he can get the most out of these guys.

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04-15-2013, 03:10 PM
  #266
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I got a hold of my son-in-law. They're O.K

Seems pretty trivial now(this thread)........ so,

Claude's here to stay (and deservedly so), so we can all only hope we improve and go into the P.O's on a roll. With everyone healthy and the new additions it's not impossible at all that we can go deep.

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04-15-2013, 07:30 PM
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disfigured View Post
So far most of the detractors of Claude in this thread have written well thought out critques of him, the system, and how the boys have been looking on the ice.

While his ardent supporters have mostly just said:
  • Our record is good
  • You can't name a better replacement
There is a difference between saying that you disagree with a couple of decisions... and saying someone must be fired for them. When people bring up Julien's record, his past success and the current standings (considering everything) -that IS valid evidence. If one mentions how he's been doubted in the past and prevailed despite popular opinion - that's also valid evidence.

There are things I don't like about how the team is playing and what Julien is doing with his lines. But by no means do I believe he should be fired... Or that he hasn't proven himself more good than bad. Or that he hasn't proven ME (and everyone else on these boards) wrong on multiple occasions.

He's not free from criticism. But I'd think by now he'd be free from hyperbole.

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04-16-2013, 04:36 PM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disfigured View Post
So far most of the detractors of Claude in this thread have written well thought out critques of him...
I don't want to read through 11 pages, but if you (or anyone) care to take the time to put those well-thought-out critiques in bullets, I'll take the time to give you some well-thought out counterpoints.

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04-16-2013, 09:11 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
I don't want to read through 11 pages, but if you (or anyone) care to take the time to put those well-thought-out critiques in bullets, I'll take the time to give you some well-thought out counterpoints.
The nuts and bolts of the argument is that Claude's system is holding back the teams most talented players. Many believe; myself included, that players like Krejci, Seguin, and Lucic have actually regressed over the past year and a half. I personally feel as though this team has peaked under Claude and a new Coach with new energy could revitalize the team and bring out the real talent in this teams offensive stars.

Either way I think most of us agreed that Claude isn't going anywhere this year. So there was basically 3 trains of thought: 1) Unless Claude takes this team deep in the playoffs he is gone 2) Claude isn't going anywhere no matter what happens; he is one of the top coaches in the league 3) I reserve the right to hold off judgement on Claude until after the playoffs regardless of the teams struggles, he has earned that much.

I personally fall under # 1 obviously.

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04-17-2013, 08:32 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
The nuts and bolts of the argument is that Claude's system is holding back the teams most talented players.
Which system? The x's and o's, their 4-line philosophy or the minutes they play?

Quote:
Players like Krejci, Seguin, and Lucic have actually regressed over the past year and a half.
Krejci scored 62 points in 2011, he scored 62 points last year, and he is on pace for 62 points this season. That's not a regression, that's who he is.

Seguin's actually on pace for one more goal than last year. His overall points per game are down a bit, but Seguin was at his worst this season when he came over from Europe. That's not Claude's fault. Once he got over his 5 game European hangover and re-adjusted, he's scored at a 34 goal pace.

Lucic's numbers are down, but he also didn't play during the lockout and admitted to being out of shape. Couldn't it be just as plausible that that's been his problem this year?

And what about Bergeron and Marchand? They're scoring at career highs.

Quote:
Claude isn't going anywhere no matter what happens; he is one of the top coaches in the league.
IMO, that is what the GM thinks of his coach. Claude could get swept in Rd1 and it wouldn't change a thing. Chiarelli isn't short sighted. He didn't let the bitter taste of that loss to Philly sway his overall opinion of Julien and he was rewarded for choosing the broad view with a Cup win a year later. Regardless of what happens, Julien's track record is second to none in the league right now and Chiarelli won't let that walk out the door.

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04-17-2013, 12:47 PM
  #271
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@Bill Ladd

Which system? The x's and o's, their 4-line philosophy or the minutes they play?

All of the above


Krejci scored 62 points in 2011, he scored 62 points last year, and he is on pace for 62 points this season. That's not a regression, that's who he is.

Seguin's actually on pace for one more goal than last year. His overall points per game are down a bit, but Seguin was at his worst this season when he came over from Europe. That's not Claude's fault. Once he got over his 5 game European hangover and re-adjusted, he's scored at a 34 goal pace.

Lucic's numbers are down, but he also didn't play during the lockout and admitted to being out of shape. Couldn't it be just as plausible that that's been his problem this year?

And what about Bergeron and Marchand? They're scoring at career highs.


At age 22 Krejci was nearly a PPG player despite only playing 17mpg. Since then his minutes have gone up yearly and his production has slowly decreased. I guess I just assumed that as he entered the prime of his career and his minutes increased so would his production.

As far as Seguin goes he should better at this point in my opinion. I am not going to bother comparing him to the other young players in the league and how they have developed because everyone is different........ But based on his talent Seguin should be a more dynamic force on this team, it's as simple as that.

Lucic's play began to fall of last year and it has carried over to this season as well. This doesn't bother me as much because Lucic is NOT a first line winger and shouldn't be used as such. Lucic should play third line minutes, he should utilize his size and toughness more, and any offense he adds should be gravy.

Marchand and Bergeron are both two way players and their skill sets work well with Claude's system but I still can't help but wonder what type of players they could both be in a system which takes advantage of players offensive talents.


IMO, that is what the GM thinks of his coach. Claude could get swept in Rd1 and it wouldn't change a thing. Chiarelli isn't short sighted. He didn't let the bitter taste of that loss to Philly sway his overall opinion of Julien and he was rewarded for choosing the broad view with a Cup win a year later. Regardless of what happens, Julien's track record is second to none in the league right now and Chiarelli won't let that walk out the door.

You may be right but the reality is we really don't know. I hope for the best come playoff time but I am cautiously optimistic. However it is my opinion that if this team gets bounced early again Chia will be forced to make a move regardless of how he feels about Claude's ability. When you have a team this talented you cannot just stand down when the team shows no growth.


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04-17-2013, 09:23 PM
  #272
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Julien

After watching the Bruins lose to the Sabres, I am getting sick and tired of Julien and his love for Ference and his terrible line combinations. If he does not wake up then maybe he will be looking for a new job next season. Ference has been a joke all season and these brutal power play combinations are difficult to watch as well. Why break up lines for the power play? Peverley isnt working on the PP so put your top two lines together and use them on the power play together. Lucic making 6 million the next three seasons should not be on the 4th line, what a waste of money. Obviously Julien cannot get him motivated.

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04-17-2013, 09:26 PM
  #273
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Ference wasn't the problem tonight.

Really.....

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04-17-2013, 09:28 PM
  #274
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Ference was good tonight and I love how hard he tried after getting out of the box.

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04-17-2013, 09:29 PM
  #275
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Lucic with zero shots and zero hits big problem tonight

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