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Kurz: Niemi leading contender for Vezina?

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04-17-2013, 06:43 PM
  #51
PattyLafontaine
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The finalists are just the top 3 vote getters. I think as it stands now Niemi would finish top 3. I think Bobrovsky is #1 and third is Lundqvist/Rask.

What's puzzling is that in that link posted concerning the GMs they had Price as best of the Eastern conference... Price isn't even in the top 10 of goalkeepers this year.

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04-17-2013, 07:09 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PattyLafontaine View Post
The finalists are just the top 3 vote getters. I think as it stands now Niemi would finish top 3. I think Bobrovsky is #1 and third is Lundqvist/Rask.

What's puzzling is that in that link posted concerning the GMs they had Price as best of the Eastern conference... Price isn't even in the top 10 of goalkeepers this year.
Price is way up there on technical which gets the goalie experts going. I don't like him because he lets his concentration slip so often and at the most inopportune times. His favorite faux pas is coming off the post when the puck is behind the net and having the skater bounce it off his backside and into the net. I do not think that Price is deserving.

For others,
Thomas didn't have a huge number of starts when he won; that may also work in Rask's favor. They do look at shutouts where Niemi just pushed towards the top. I discount wins because a reasonably good team can push that number up with a very average goalie. Unfortunately, the converse is true for the guys who play for pathetic teams. It helps that the Sharks are now in the top 3 for team GAA.

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04-17-2013, 07:44 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Price is way up there on technical which gets the goalie experts going. I don't like him because he lets his concentration slip so often and at the most inopportune times. His favorite faux pas is coming off the post when the puck is behind the net and having the skater bounce it off his backside and into the net. I do not think that Price is deserving.

For others,
Thomas didn't have a huge number of starts when he won; that may also work in Rask's favor. They do look at shutouts where Niemi just pushed towards the top. I discount wins because a reasonably good team can push that number up with a very average goalie. Unfortunately, the converse is true for the guys who play for pathetic teams. It helps that the Sharks are now in the top 3 for team GAA.
Wins is good when looking at teams via the standings, if you have a 1st place team like chicago that has 37 wins, but there #1 goalie doesn't even have 20 wins (or top 3 in wins), it is a pretty good indication that he is not really needed on that team.

Then you look at a team like the sharks/blue jackets who have 23 and 22 wins respectively. While the #1 goalies on those teams have 21 and 17 wins respectively. It just goes to show that the team relies heavily on those goalies to win games. Especially when you add in the fact that both goalies are both near the top 5 in every single major stat for a goalie and it just prooves it even more.

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04-17-2013, 07:54 PM
  #54
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PollakOnSharks 5:16pm via Web No wonder there's Vezina buzz around #SJSharks Niemi -- his numbers better now than 2010 with CHI. See mercurynews.com/sharks/ci_2304



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04-17-2013, 08:18 PM
  #55
Kitten Mittons
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His numbers with Chicago weren't even anything special.

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04-17-2013, 08:20 PM
  #56
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He was the back up in Chi until about March 2010.

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04-17-2013, 08:20 PM
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If CBJ gets in the playoffs it has to be BOB.

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04-17-2013, 08:21 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
If CBJ gets in the playoffs it has to be BOB.
CBJ has the toughest Schedule of any team in the bottom 7, so I would have to agree.

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04-17-2013, 08:22 PM
  #59
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Niemi doesn't get the respect he deserves at all... People think of him being on a good Hawks team and getting through based on good D but he's very solid. Admittedly, an odd style but so what? He deserves the Vezina as of now.

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04-17-2013, 08:27 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by str8shooter View Post
People think of him being on a good Hawks team and getting through based on good D
Which is exactly what happened.

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Originally Posted by str8shooter
but he's very solid
Yes.

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He deserves the Vezina as of now.
No. Bob does.

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04-17-2013, 08:28 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
Wins is good when looking at teams via the standings, if you have a 1st place team like chicago that has 37 wins, but there #1 goalie doesn't even have 20 wins (or top 3 in wins), it is a pretty good indication that he is not really needed on that team.

Then you look at a team like the sharks/blue jackets who have 23 and 22 wins respectively. While the #1 goalies on those teams have 21 and 17 wins respectively. It just goes to show that the team relies heavily on those goalies to win games. Especially when you add in the fact that both goalies are both near the top 5 in every single major stat for a goalie and it just prooves it even more.
The wins are deceptive when you get a guy like BobbieLu who was bent on getting starts (or the coach is). BobbieLu is good but not that good (see Olympics and playoff track record). And Schneider comes in and basically competes evenly with him. If the backup is never given a real chance, I personally don't buy it. Individual teams may not be that smart about goaltending. In reality, it can point either to quality goaltending or stubbornness. In the hockey world, the "cognoscenti" overly rely on the wins stat because they don't get into the personalities behind the scenes. Turco got starts and wins at one point and he definitely wasn't that good. It would be more appropriate to compare the stats of the backup to the starter to take out team effect provided the backup gets a reasonable number of games (check Price vs Budaj this year).

BTW, despite frontrunning the Jennings, I do agree that Chicago's goaltending is nothing to write home about.


Last edited by SJeasy: 04-17-2013 at 08:34 PM.
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04-17-2013, 08:31 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Kitten Mittons View Post
No. Bob does.
Watch Niemi wins the Vezina and Bob gets the Hart.

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04-17-2013, 08:44 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PattyLafontaine View Post
The finalists are just the top 3 vote getters. I think as it stands now Niemi would finish top 3. I think Bobrovsky is #1 and third is Lundqvist/Rask.

What's puzzling is that in that link posted concerning the GMs they had Price as best of the Eastern conference... Price isn't even in the top 10 of goalkeepers this year.
It was just coaches who voted not GMs. I doubt Price will get much consideration given how bad he has been the last few games.

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04-17-2013, 08:46 PM
  #64
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Watch Niemi wins the Vezina and Bob gets the Hart.
Na, Crosby is getting every award even the Jack Adams.

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04-17-2013, 09:10 PM
  #65
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I have no problem with Bob getting the Vezina over Niemi. Bob doesn't have as good a team in front of him as Niemi does, yet they post similar stats.

If CBJ even sneaks in as the 8th seed, just give it to Bob.

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04-17-2013, 09:35 PM
  #66
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Im sure some of you said you want Niemi traded last season. Now you all praise him. Life as a Sharks fan eh? loool

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04-17-2013, 09:45 PM
  #67
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Im sure some of you said you want Niemi traded last season. Now you all praise him. Life as a Sharks fan eh? loool
Crazy right, people can't see the future!?

What do you propose? Should everyone just assume every player will always meet expectations? Should everyone just have the same opinion about everything?

Guess we should have kept Kent Huskins, Colin White, Torrey Mitchell...

I hate comments like this.

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04-17-2013, 09:52 PM
  #68
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Crazy right, people can't see the future!?

What do you propose? Should everyone just assume every player will always meet expectations? Should everyone just have the same opinion about everything?

Guess we should have kept Kent Huskins, Colin White, Torrey Mitchell...

I hate comments like this.
Thanks for the feedback.

All im saying is Niemi gets more flack than he deserves, and many of you said the Sharks should have traded him last season and I was in that same group. Have faith in your teams players and no people cannot see the future, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be ready for it. Honestly, where do you think the Sharks would be now without Niemi?

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04-17-2013, 10:25 PM
  #69
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Thanks for the feedback.

All im saying is Niemi gets more flack than he deserves, and many of you said the Sharks should have traded him last season and I was in that same group. Have faith in your teams players and no people cannot see the future, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be ready for it. Honestly, where do you think the Sharks would be now without Niemi?
Dude, I'm the one who started promoting Niemi for Vezina months ago. Don't have to convince me.

Your post sounded like "I told you so", not what you intended.

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04-17-2013, 10:33 PM
  #70
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Niemi has 5 more wins than Bobrovsky and is basically tied in SV% and GAA. If CBJ doesn't make the playoffs, it's gotta be Niemi. Especially after that save on Richards last night.

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04-17-2013, 10:42 PM
  #71
Kitten Mittons
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Niemi has 5 more wins than Bobrovsky and is basically tied in SV% and GAA. If CBJ doesn't make the playoffs, it's gotta be Niemi. Especially after that save on Richards last night.
.926sv 2.12GAA is not basically .931sv 2.03GAA. Especially on a ****** team like Columbus.

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04-17-2013, 10:51 PM
  #72
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.926sv 2.12GAA is not basically .931sv 2.03GAA. Especially on a ****** team like Columbus.
It must suck that your favorite team traded the wrong Russian to the Jackets right, Flyers fan?

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04-17-2013, 11:03 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Number19 View Post
Thanks for the feedback.

All im saying is Niemi gets more flack than he deserves, and many of you said the Sharks should have traded him last season and I was in that same group. Have faith in your teams players and no people cannot see the future, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be ready for it. Honestly, where do you think the Sharks would be now without Niemi?
Niemi got all the flak he deserved last year. He was an average goalie that played average. That's the bottom line. He had many, many shortcomings last year and has shored up the bulk of them and had a strong season. That's great for the team and him but he's still an average goalie...he's just having a career season. It happens.

People keep asking this whole where would we be bit like it's obvious when it really isn't. It's impossible to legitimately say where they'd be because it would depend on who would be his replacement and how the skaters would play in front of them.

I'm glad Nemo's having a great season. However, and this is me as the minority with this opinion, I would still trade him this off-season if a GM is willing to fork over an asset worth having. If a GM wants to give us a mid-level 1st round pick for Niemi at the draft, I'd move him in a heartbeat. Any forward prospect that could be argued as a blue chipper, in a heartbeat. If Niemi manages to churn out another season next year like this one, he will be too rich for my blood in terms of re-signing. I have no interest in paying 5+ mil for a goalie and I hope for DW's sake or whoever the GM may be at that time, they feel the same way lest they fall into the mistakes that cost them during Nabby's time when they had no depth because they were too top heavy and goalie is the easiest position to get bang for your buck on.

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04-17-2013, 11:06 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten Mittons View Post
.926sv 2.12GAA is not basically .931sv 2.03GAA. Especially on a ****** team like Columbus.
.926 and .931 is basically tied. They're tied in shutouts, the difference in GAA is negligible, and the Sharks themselves were horse**** for a long stretch and were buoyed by Nemo. And Nemo has 5 more wins, and the Sharks are making the playoffs. But by all means, troll your own team.

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04-18-2013, 12:17 AM
  #75
Kitten Mittons
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Originally Posted by allworldcaucasn View Post
.926 and .931 is basically tied. They're tied in shutouts, the difference in GAA is negligible, and the Sharks themselves were horse**** for a long stretch and were buoyed by Nemo. And Nemo has 5 more wins, and the Sharks are making the playoffs. But by all means, troll your own team.
It's not negligible. It's what separates the goaltenders. Two years ago the difference between Thomas and Rinne were: .938sv 2.00gaa vs .930sv 2.12gaa - negligible difference, yet Thomas won. Niemi has 5 more wins and 6 more starts playing on a much better team. Playoffs argument is stupid - this isn't the MVP award.

But by all means, be a homer.


edit: what's sad is not that the consensus is Bob over Niemi but that Lundqvist is the #2 runner in the race. Just stupid East Coast bias (at least on this board).

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