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Blues Trade Proposals - Part 5

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04-17-2013, 06:47 PM
  #851
HooliganX2
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
Jones right now might be better than EJ at that age. Jones will probably be what EJ should have been.
People really forget how good EJ was. He was taken number one for a good reason. I personally don't think you draft a defenseman number 1 overall when you have comparable offensive players available.

Hedman was suppose to be close to taveras. Larsson to RNH. Just seems like defenseman are a lot harder to predict.


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04-17-2013, 06:51 PM
  #852
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Seth Jones is nowhere close to the type of player Erik Johnson is.

Jones is more proven, as he as played CHL competition as compared to college. He also has a much better shot. EJ is more of a pass first, puck move d man, Jones is a scoring d man.

Jones also uses his body.
I've never seen Jones play, but I do wonder if some of his dominance is due to a physical mismatch that won't exsist at the NHL level. He is already 6'4" and 206 lbs. Much how Jaskin was described sometimes as a "man amongst boys" this past season, I fear the same could be true of Jones.

With the salary cap, entry level contracts, and defensemen usually taking a while to develop, I can see why teams would lean towards the forward in the draft.

Frankly, with Jones climbing all season, and questions about Drouin v. MacKinnon, I'm glad that the Blues don't have to worry about the top of the draft for quite some time.

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04-17-2013, 06:53 PM
  #853
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Originally Posted by bluemandan View Post
I've never seen Jones play, but I do wonder if some of his dominance is due to a physical mismatch that won't exsist at the NHL level. He is already 6'4" and 206 lbs. Much how Jaskin was described sometimes as a "man amongst boys" this past season, I fear the same could be true of Jones.

With the salary cap, entry level contracts, and defensemen usually taking a while to develop, I can see why teams would lean towards the forward in the draft.

Frankly, with Jones climbing all season, and questions about Drouin v. MacKinnon, I'm glad that the Blues don't have to worry about the top of the draft for quite some time.
A team like the Avs have a strong core of forwards led by Gabriel Landeskog, but have no D. They should take Jones if they have the 1st pick. It's been different the past couple years with Ryan Murray and Adam Larsson, as the Oilers have picked forwards over them. larsson and Murray aren't statistical based d man, and are more two way players. Jones can seriously score.

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04-17-2013, 06:57 PM
  #854
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A team like the Avs have a strong core of forwards led by Gabriel Landeskog, but have no D. They should take Jones if they have the 1st pick. It's been different the past couple years with Ryan Murray and Adam Larsson, as the Oilers have picked forwards over them. larsson and Murray aren't statistical based d man, and are more two way players. Jones can seriously score.
Or they could trade ROR for an impact defenseman who is proven in the NHL, not pay an overpriced salary for a guy who doesn't want to be there, and draft MacKinnon to replace him for pennies on the dollar.

Drafting for team need isn't the smartest move. Unless you are currently a Cup contender like Boston when they drafted Seguin.

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04-17-2013, 07:26 PM
  #855
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Maybe someone can clarify, I thought the buy-out option was only available (in terms of the special deal for Cap compliance) this and next season. I didn't think it was there indefinitely.
Teams have 2 compliance buy-outs, which can be used in the summer of 2013 or the summer of 2014. After what was going to happen to Redden and Gomez, they tweaked the rules to allow a buyout prior to that start of this season as well.

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Or they could trade ROR for an impact defenseman who is proven in the NHL, not pay an overpriced salary for a guy who doesn't want to be there, and draft MacKinnon to replace him for pennies on the dollar.

Drafting for team need isn't the smartest move. Unless you are currently a Cup contender like Boston when they drafted Seguin.
I don't think that ROR has any problem with signing an extension in Colorado. The idea that he doesn't want to be there is a fallacy. Colorado backed themselves into a corner with the Duchene extension and then basically wanted to play hardball with ROR. They got shown up.

On the draft... it is just interesting this year. There is an argument that MacKinnon is the least talented of the three, but might be the smart choice as the first overall. I'd either take Jones at #1 or trade down to #4 for Barkov.

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04-17-2013, 07:30 PM
  #856
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Colorado has proved the past couple seasons that they can be somewhat decent. They are not your ordinary #1 overall pick team, and thats if they get the pick.

Taking the position of need is the ideal move here.

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04-17-2013, 11:31 PM
  #857
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I have nothing against Jones but it would be hilarious if he busted and Colorado had both him and EJ on the roster.

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04-17-2013, 11:34 PM
  #858
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Or they could trade ROR for an impact defenseman who is proven in the NHL, not pay an overpriced salary for a guy who doesn't want to be there, and draft MacKinnon to replace him for pennies on the dollar.

Drafting for team need isn't the smartest move. Unless you are currently a Cup contender like Boston when they drafted Seguin.
The Avs can't trade O'Reilly until around the 2014 trade deadline.

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04-18-2013, 12:30 AM
  #859
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The Avs can't trade O'Reilly until around the 2014 trade deadline.
Likely at the 2014 draft because it's one calendar year, which in a normal year is a couple weeks past the deadline.

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04-18-2013, 06:11 AM
  #860
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Likely at the 2014 draft because it's one calendar year, which in a normal year is a couple weeks past the deadline.
It will likely be at the trade deadline, the Olympic break should push it back far enough.

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04-19-2013, 04:32 PM
  #861
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Maybe someone can clarify, I thought the buy-out option was only available (in terms of the special deal for Cap compliance) this and next season. I didn't think it was there indefinitely.
I'm not an expert here but this was covered on Rangers board and unless I missed something, I'm very confident we can hold off on the amnesty buyout until approx end of next season.

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04-20-2013, 12:19 PM
  #862
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On the draft... it is just interesting this year. There is an argument that MacKinnon is the least talented of the three, but might be the smart choice as the first overall. I'd either take Jones at #1 or trade down to #4 for Barkov.
My opinion: if you trade down to #4, you might miss Barkov.

Depending on who gets the first-overall pick, I could see Barkov going that high, probably no lower than third overall. If the Blues had a top-three pick this year, I would absolutely spend it on Barkov and have no regrets.

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04-20-2013, 12:27 PM
  #863
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I think the top 5 talents are the Halifax boys, Jones, Barkov, with Nichushkin possibly falling out because of the Russian factor. Every one of those players looks like they could turn a franchise around.

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04-20-2013, 12:58 PM
  #864
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You guys realize we're not getting a top 5 draft pick this year, right? We're not making a trade and getting that pick. It isn't going to happen.

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04-20-2013, 01:49 PM
  #865
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You guys realize we're not getting a top 5 draft pick this year, right? We're not making a trade and getting that pick. It isn't going to happen.
Perron, Berglund, and 2nd for top 5 pick!!!

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04-20-2013, 02:03 PM
  #866
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Perron, Berglund, and 2nd for top 5 pick!!!
no

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04-20-2013, 11:20 PM
  #867
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As long as we're daydreaming, I'm trying to decide what to do with my day with the Cup.

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04-20-2013, 11:34 PM
  #868
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As long as we're daydreaming, I'm trying to decide what to do with my day with the Cup.
I'm taking it down to The Landing.

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04-21-2013, 04:46 PM
  #869
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For the people who want Paul Stastny, there was a shattdeuces tweet last night about David Jones, Stastny, Shattenkirk and Stewart all having dinner together. Stastny is from St. Louis and undoubtedly has plenty of friends in town, and is close with two Blues players (and maybe Leopold too). AND the Blues need another skilled center. I strongly believe this is a case where the Blues could confidently wait til UFA for Stastny and get him at a lower salary. Yes, they might not have him for a playoff run next year because the division rival Avs won't want to trade him in the division, but it's a prime chance for a negotiating rights trade just before UFA hits. Avs might rent him to a non-division contending team before the deadline next year, but if he wants to come to St. Louis, the Blues should feel confident they can make him an excellent situational pitch if he'll play for the 4M range. They can't pay him more than Backes (he doesn't deserve it). I only bring this up to say that while it's certainly possible Stastny is a Blue in 14-15 there's almost no way Avs trade him in-division to the Blues in 13-14.

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04-21-2013, 05:33 PM
  #870
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
For the people who want Paul Stastny, there was a shattdeuces tweet last night about David Jones, Stastny, Shattenkirk and Stewart all having dinner together. Stastny is from St. Louis and undoubtedly has plenty of friends in town, and is close with two Blues players (and maybe Leopold too). AND the Blues need another skilled center. I strongly believe this is a case where the Blues could confidently wait til UFA for Stastny and get him at a lower salary. Yes, they might not have him for a playoff run next year because the division rival Avs won't want to trade him in the division, but it's a prime chance for a negotiating rights trade just before UFA hits. Avs might rent him to a non-division contending team before the deadline next year, but if he wants to come to St. Louis, the Blues should feel confident they can make him an excellent situational pitch if he'll play for the 4M range. They can't pay him more than Backes (he doesn't deserve it). I only bring this up to say that while it's certainly possible Stastny is a Blue in 14-15 there's almost no way Avs trade him in-division to the Blues in 13-14.
Although I don't really want Statsny, if he will do what Garrison did and go back to his hometown team for a price cut, I won't object to that

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04-21-2013, 08:56 PM
  #871
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For the people who want Paul Stastny, there was a shattdeuces tweet last night about David Jones, Stastny, Shattenkirk and Stewart all having dinner together. Stastny is from St. Louis and undoubtedly has plenty of friends in town, and is close with two Blues players (and maybe Leopold too). AND the Blues need another skilled center. I strongly believe this is a case where the Blues could confidently wait til UFA for Stastny and get him at a lower salary. Yes, they might not have him for a playoff run next year because the division rival Avs won't want to trade him in the division, but it's a prime chance for a negotiating rights trade just before UFA hits. Avs might rent him to a non-division contending team before the deadline next year, but if he wants to come to St. Louis, the Blues should feel confident they can make him an excellent situational pitch if he'll play for the 4M range. They can't pay him more than Backes (he doesn't deserve it). I only bring this up to say that while it's certainly possible Stastny is a Blue in 14-15 there's almost no way Avs trade him in-division to the Blues in 13-14.
If the Avs really go into short rebuild mode I could see getting Stas in the off-season for a Bouwmeester-like trade and work out his new contract during next year.

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04-21-2013, 10:22 PM
  #872
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Good god do we need top line offensive talent. Armstrong needs to make a deal for someone.

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04-22-2013, 11:17 AM
  #873
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If the Avs really go into short rebuild mode I could see getting Stas in the off-season for a Bouwmeester-like trade and work out his new contract during next year.
That's mostly the point of my post that what you could see happening will specifically not happen. Colorado is not going to trade him in division to a team that wants to keep him long-term. That isn't going to happen. They wouldn't even trade him to us at the deadline. They might trade him somewhere else at the deadline, and during summer 2014 there's a reasonable chance he wants to play in St. Louis.

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04-22-2013, 06:05 PM
  #874
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Im not sure stastny is the answer, however if were getting him from free agency and not losing any roster players theres really no way he can hurt, escpecially if he takes a below market value to play here

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04-22-2013, 06:11 PM
  #875
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We can't really wait till the 2014 offseason to solve our problem though. I am a supporter of getting Stastny, but I would rather get someone else this offseason than wait on Stastny. Maybe we can still go after Stastny if our finances are in order and we decide to let another forward go, but we need to acquire a top-line center this offseason.

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