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2014 - Canada Roster Discussion (Part V)

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Old
04-12-2013, 03:43 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by habsrule4eva3089 View Post
The only reason this Methot talk could have potentially have started is because of the lack of quality left hand players on the backend. I mean there's going to be 8 defensemen selected for 2014 and the majority are all right handed. IT eventually comes down to whether you take the better player or you play the position at hand. I mean if it comes down to ...let's just say left hand ''Methot'', versus PK Subban...would the selection committee actually have the guts to take Methot...there's no chance PK is not on the team with his game. As it stands right now for me, the following 8 will be going to Sochi.

Keith Weber
Letang Doughty
Bouwmeester Pietrangelo
Phaneuf Subban

Thoughts?
Methot is only a slightly better than an average NHL regular.
The only reason he is being mentioned is just in case the IOC/IIHF balk at paying the insurance bill, then Mathot for a 7th or 8th d-man is a cheap contract to insure. Dan Hamhuis or Methot? When it comes down to it, if both are just going to be bit players outside the Top 6 and and Hockey Canada has to foot the bill for the insurance tab, then they'll take the cheap contract. No other reason! Sens fans and Ottawa based sports writers are delusional to think it is anything other than that.

And Phanuef? Big No.

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04-12-2013, 08:10 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by habsrule4eva3089 View Post
The only reason this Methot talk could have potentially have started is because of the lack of quality left hand players on the backend. I mean there's going to be 8 defensemen selected for 2014 and the majority are all right handed. IT eventually comes down to whether you take the better player or you play the position at hand. I mean if it comes down to ...let's just say left hand ''Methot'', versus PK Subban...would the selection committee actually have the guts to take Methot...there's no chance PK is not on the team with his game. As it stands right now for me, the following 8 will be going to Sochi.

Keith Weber
Letang Doughty
Bouwmeester Pietrangelo
Phaneuf Subban

Thoughts?
Yes, we need LHed defencemen, but Staal and Hamhuis are both significantly better options than Phaneuf, as is Bouwmeester. I personally have JBo below both Staal and Hamhuis though. I mean, Phaneuf has simplified his game a bit and has had a pretty good season, but as our #6 to #8 I believe we need rock-solid defensive defencemen that can also move the puck effectively, skate well on the international ice, and basically fit efficiently and effectively into the mix in the top 6 if one of those guys gets injured. Staal and Hamhuis fit the bill, JBo too, maybe even Brian Campbell, but not Phaneuf or Marc Methot.

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04-12-2013, 09:28 AM
  #103
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Yeah no way Phaneuf is on this team.

Weber
Doughty
Keith
Subban
Pietrangelo
Letang
Staal
---
Hamhuis
Bouwmeester
Seabrook


I think is the consensus here, with those bottom 4 guys switching around a bit.

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04-12-2013, 09:35 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by 86Habs View Post
Yes, we need LHed defencemen, but Staal and Hamhuis are both significantly better options than Phaneuf, as is Bouwmeester. I personally have JBo below both Staal and Hamhuis though. I mean, Phaneuf has simplified his game a bit and has had a pretty good season, but as our #6 to #8 I believe we need rock-solid defensive defencemen that can also move the puck effectively, skate well on the international ice, and basically fit efficiently and effectively into the mix in the top 6 if one of those guys gets injured. Staal and Hamhuis fit the bill, JBo too, maybe even Brian Campbell, but not Phaneuf or Marc Methot.
Methot >> Campbell for this team. Methot is a rock, and as mentioned, can skate very well and move the puck.


Campbell adds absolutely nothing. His defense is not good, and more offense is not what this team needs. There is plenty to go around with the top guys on D, without even considering the superstar forwards. For those depth spots, Canada first and foremost needs someone who will not hurt them, but Campbell could.


Oh and Mr Writer, ''Methot is only a slightly better than an average NHL regular'' Ottawa is one of the best defensive in the league, and Methot is their best/primary defensive player. So I will disagree

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04-12-2013, 10:20 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Methot >> Campbell for this team. Methot is a rock, and as mentioned, can skate very well and move the puck.

Campbell adds absolutely nothing. His defense is not good, and more offense is not what this team needs. There is plenty to go around with the top guys on D, without even considering the superstar forwards. For those depth spots, Canada first and foremost needs someone who will not hurt them, but Campbell could.

Oh and Mr Writer, ''Methot is only a slightly better than an average NHL regular'' Ottawa is one of the best defensive in the league, and Methot is their best/primary defensive player. So I will disagree
You're underselling Campbell's defense quite a bit, he's actually pretty good for an offensive defenceman if he's asked to play a better all-around game (which he isn't in Florida). But yeah, you're right, to round out the bottom of a defence corps that already includes Letang and Subban, Campbell is redundant and we're better off going with a more defensive-oriented defenceman.

Agreed on your 2nd point (which wasn't directed at me) - Methot is a really good player, and underrated. Looking forward to seeing him tested in the playoffs, though.

With that, can we all agree that:

1. Hamhuis, Staal, and Bouwmeester are better options at LHed defence than Methot,
2. Methot is at best a longshot at best to make the 2014 team,
3. He may get invited to the summer orientation camp to round out the scrimmage rosters,
4. There are also a number of RHed defencemen better than Methot, and most importantly,
5. We should stop talking about Methot.

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04-12-2013, 10:44 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by 86Habs View Post
You're underselling Campbell's defense quite a bit, he's actually pretty good for an offensive defenceman if he's asked to play a better all-around game (which he isn't in Florida). But yeah, you're right, to round out the bottom of a defence corps that already includes Letang and Subban, Campbell is redundant and we're better off going with a more defensive-oriented defenceman.

Agreed on your 2nd point (which wasn't directed at me) - Methot is a really good player, and underrated. Looking forward to seeing him tested in the playoffs, though.

With that, can we all agree that:

1. Hamhuis, Staal, and Bouwmeester are better options at LHed defence than Methot,
2. Methot is at best a longshot at best to make the 2014 team,
3. He may get invited to the summer orientation camp to round out the scrimmage rosters,
4. There are also a number of RHed defencemen better than Methot, and most importantly,
5. We should stop talking about Methot.

Agreed from 1 to 5.

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04-13-2013, 08:02 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Yeah no way Phaneuf is on this team.

Weber
Doughty
Keith
Subban
Pietrangelo
Letang
Staal
---
Hamhuis
Bouwmeester
Seabrook


I think is the consensus here, with those bottom 4 guys switching around a bit.

You guys are making the same mistake again as you all did for the last WJC ... you DONT HAVE a Mean mother Fckr to clear the front of the net...

By the way, you will not have Subban and Letang on the same team, they will compete for the same job...

I think Subban makes it..

The only locks are Weber Doughty

my opinion: Doughty , Weber, Keith, Seabrook or Bouwmeester, Staal, Subban (last spot as he is tougher than Letang) and a MEAN Mother fckr to clear the net... i dont know who that could be...

You need that one maniac to clear the net....

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04-13-2013, 08:59 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by MyNameIsNobody View Post
You guys are making the same mistake again as you all did for the last WJC ... you DONT HAVE a Mean mother Fckr to clear the front of the net...

By the way, you will not have Subban and Letang on the same team, they will compete for the same job...

I think Subban makes it..

The only locks are Weber Doughty

my opinion: Doughty , Weber, Keith, Seabrook or Bouwmeester, Staal, Subban (last spot as he is tougher than Letang) and a MEAN Mother fckr to clear the net... i dont know who that could be...

You need that one maniac to clear the net....
Weber?

Subban is interesting to me. I never gave him serious consideration, but he's been dynamite this year. I'm still skeptical due to the short season though. Canada has the potential to ice a tremendously mobile defence, so if they go the 2006 route it will be far more jarring. Subban, Letang, Doughty, Keith, Pietrangelo are all tremendous skaters.

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04-13-2013, 10:50 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Weber?

Subban is interesting to me. I never gave him serious consideration, but he's been dynamite this year. I'm still skeptical due to the short season though. Canada has the potential to ice a tremendously mobile defence, so if they go the 2006 route it will be far more jarring. Subban, Letang, Doughty, Keith, Pietrangelo are all tremendous skaters.
Doughty ( he is strong)
Shea weber <-- big boy
Keith
Staal <-- big boy
bouwmeester or seabrook <--- big boys
Subban (he strong and is tougher than letang)

+ maniac to clear the net. A replacement for pronger. Maybe a Brent burns or Myers even though he is having a tough season. ( we will see what he does at this years WC). Maybe someone else???

And all can skate. If you can't find a maniac I would consider Girardi Pietrangelo Letang hamonic these are all the same. About the same weight and strength.

Who can replace pronger???

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04-13-2013, 12:18 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by 86Habs View Post
You're underselling Campbell's defense quite a bit, he's actually pretty good for an offensive defenceman if he's asked to play a better all-around game (which he isn't in Florida). But yeah, you're right, to round out the bottom of a defence corps that already includes Letang and Subban, Campbell is redundant and we're better off going with a more defensive-oriented defenceman.

Agreed on your 2nd point (which wasn't directed at me) - Methot is a really good player, and underrated. Looking forward to seeing him tested in the playoffs, though.

With that, can we all agree that:

1. Hamhuis, Staal, and Bouwmeester are better options at LHed defence than Methot,
2. Methot is at best a longshot at best to make the 2014 team,
3. He may get invited to the summer orientation camp to round out the scrimmage rosters,
4. There are also a number of RHed defencemen better than Methot, and most importantly,
5. We should stop talking about Methot.
Well said

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04-13-2013, 01:48 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by MyNameIsNobody View Post
Doughty ( he is strong)
Shea weber <-- big boy
Keith
Staal <-- big boy
bouwmeester or seabrook <--- big boys
Subban (he strong and is tougher than letang)

+ maniac to clear the net. A replacement for pronger. Maybe a Brent burns or Myers even though he is having a tough season. ( we will see what he does at this years WC). Maybe someone else???

And all can skate. If you can't find a maniac I would consider Girardi Pietrangelo Letang hamonic these are all the same. About the same weight and strength.

Who can replace pronger???
Pronger was never particularly good internationally. The only team that Canada could realistically need a net-clearer for is USA, and even then the refs will probably do most of the work. Should that fail, Weber should be up to whatever the toughest matchup is.

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04-13-2013, 03:14 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Pronger was never particularly good internationally. The only team that Canada could realistically need a net-clearer for is USA, and even then the refs will probably do most of the work. Should that fail, Weber should be up to whatever the toughest matchup is.
He was not there to skate end to end...he was there to clear the net...i want a Pronger type who can skate....maybe a Myers or Burns...i dont see anyone else...we already have 3-4 great puck movers but we don't have a Maniac...as for Weber, he can fill this role but i prefer him + a Maniac...

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04-13-2013, 10:38 PM
  #113
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Will Crosby and Giroux be able to play on the same line?

They seem to genuinely hate each other.

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04-13-2013, 10:41 PM
  #114
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Staal - Crosby - Tavares
Stamkos - Getzlaf - Perry
Nash - Toews - Giroux
M. Richards - Bergeron - Marchand
J. Staal

Letang - Weber
Doughty - Pietrangelo
Keith - Seabrook
Staal

Price
Luongo
Fleury


Last edited by skroonk2002*: 04-13-2013 at 11:02 PM.
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04-13-2013, 10:57 PM
  #115
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I see a lot of teams here built like All-Star teams. Some with 10-11 offensive players.

Team Canada won't be built like that, especially with Steve Yzerman picking the team. Someone like him knows the value of having well-rounded players and defensive-minded players on the team.

You are going to need to have about 5-6 forwards who have proven that they are reliable defensively. You will need 4 forwards to spread over 2 PK units, which means you need 5-6 forwards who are above-average/elite defensively, in case 1 of your 4 PK'ers is one of the players in the penalty box.

So basically, don't expect to see the likes of Seguin or Benn on the 4th line (or on the team period). Their time will come in 2018, when the players on 2014's scoring lines are too old.

Players like M. Richards, Marchand, and J. Staal have a FAR GREATER chance of making the 2014 team than Seguin or Benn.

As of now, I like the following PK units:

1st = Bergeron - Marchand
2nd = Toews - M. Richards

Then you have guys like J. Staal, Giroux, Crosby, etc. with experience playing the PK in case one of your regular PKer's is in the box.

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04-14-2013, 02:19 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by skroonk2002* View Post
I see a lot of teams here built like All-Star teams. Some with 10-11 offensive players.

Team Canada won't be built like that, especially with Steve Yzerman picking the team. Someone like him knows the value of having well-rounded players and defensive-minded players on the team.

You are going to need to have about 5-6 forwards who have proven that they are reliable defensively. You will need 4 forwards to spread over 2 PK units, which means you need 5-6 forwards who are above-average/elite defensively, in case 1 of your 4 PK'ers is one of the players in the penalty box.

So basically, don't expect to see the likes of Seguin or Benn on the 4th line (or on the team period). Their time will come in 2018, when the players on 2014's scoring lines are too old.

Players like M. Richards, Marchand, and J. Staal have a FAR GREATER chance of making the 2014 team than Seguin or Benn.

As of now, I like the following PK units:

1st = Bergeron - Marchand
2nd = Toews - M. Richards

Then you have guys like J. Staal, Giroux, Crosby, etc. with experience playing the PK in case one of your regular PKer's is in the box.
Having been on Team Canada '02, Yzerman would recall that our checking line that tournament was Peca/Nieuwendyk - Shanahan - Fleury. Though not an exact comparison, one can fairly equate Peca in '02 with Bergeron in '14, with Bergeron being a fair bit better offensively and Peca being the more physical defensive player. Still, neither Shanahan, Nieuwendyk or Fleury were ever known as defensive stalwarts, just highly experienced, responsible and versatile players who would do whatever was asked of them to win, and all performed competently in the circumstances. So, I simply don't see any reason to have Jordan Staal on this team. Strong defensively, obviously, but nowhere near good enough offensively to add any value to this team on the international ice surface. I'd look to him on the NHL ice surface, though.

And I hate the label "defensive forward" in the Team Canada context, because it brings back bad memories of Rob Zamuner, Kris Draper, and Shane Doan, but I do expect the players who will shoulder the PKing and defensive loads to be able to present at least some sort of threat offensively to keep the opposition honest, and be versatile enough to move up and down the lineup to switch things up or in case of injury. There shouldn't be any "fixed" roster spots, except maybe Crosby at #1C. Bergeron is a top-10 player in Canada, so he's there. Same with Toews. After that, I like Sharp, who's an extremely versatile forward that can play any position, has international experience, and has been a playoff warrior for Chicago a number of times. Then I'll hold my nose and take Mike Richards, who gives us dogged puck pursuit, very strong PKing ability, good physicality, and has proved that he can mesh well with just about anyone. After that, I'll look to Eric Staal, Rick Nash, and Claude Giroux to shoulder some of the PKing responsibility as necessary, and one of those guys, maybe Nash, would be on my two-way line with Toews and Sharp.

Not sure what to make of Brad Marchand's chances; my initial reaction was that his game wouldn't translate very well to the international setting, with the tighter reffing and less emphasis on grinding, physical play, but I now see that he would maybe add a pretty unique dimension to Team Canada that's otherwise missing. He's done substantially more to build a case for himself over the last year or so than Corey Perry, who most people still incomprehensibly consider a lock. I still don't have either guy on my team, but have Marchand a little closer and acknowledge that we may be missing a little physicality on the lower lines which may need to be filled by either of those two or someone like Jamie Benn or Evander Kane.

Overall, defensively speaking, on the larger international ice surface we're better off going with players who are quick and positionally sound (Bergeron, Toews, Sharp, Richards) than the bigger, stronger, slower types like Jordan Staal. After the way Toews played in 2010, I'd be more than comfortable having a Toews-Bergeron combination match up against the Sedins, Malkins, and Ovechkins that we'll be playing in 2014.

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04-16-2013, 12:14 PM
  #117
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I honestly cannot come up with 13-14 forwards. My list always has 16-18 guys and it's very tough to shorten the list down from that. Unbelievable depth.

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04-16-2013, 02:45 PM
  #118
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I honestly cannot come up with 13-14 forwards. My list always has 16-18 guys and it's very tough to shorten the list down from that. Unbelievable depth.
Exactly.

This is what my roster looks like now:


1st line: TAVARES - CROSBY - NASH

2nd line: STAMKOS - GETZLAF - ST. LOUIS

3rd line: E.STAAL - TOEWS - SHARP

4th line: HALL - BERGERON - GIROUX

13th forward: M.RICHARDS / E.KANE / PERRY



DEFENDSMEN


LETANG - WEBER

KEITH - DOUGHTY

BOUWMEESTER - PIETRANGELO

7th: Seabrook / Subban / M. Staal / Boyle / Burns / Phaneuf / Hamhuis / Green

If you are looking for someone who can play all type of roles, you probably take Subban or Seabrook. If you wanna more defensive D-man, then probably Hamhuis or M.Staal would be your pick. If Letang is injured, I will definitely take Boyle or Green or maybe Phaneuf. Burns is there because he's versatile and he actually can skate for a guy his size. Right now, my pick is Subban. The 8th D-man would be M.Staal.


Goaltenders:

Price. That's all you need to know.

Then maybe Fleury and Luongo.

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04-17-2013, 09:14 AM
  #119
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Seriously, what has Corey Perry done this season or last to even be considered in the running for this team? Getzlaf has had a really good year, so I have no issue with him getting a look, but Perry is sitting under a PPG (which is not what you want to see from a guy would presumably be put in a scoring role in Sochi), still penalty prone, and as has been discussed ad nauseum around here his skating is poor, which would be compounded on the international ice.

I mean, if we're looking for a guy that can play physical, is strong on the forecheck, goes to the net hard, and can put the puck in the net, I'd look first to Taylor Hall and then Andrew Ladd to bring those elements to our team. Hall also brings killer speed off the wing which would be a huge asset for us on the international ice. I've consistently had Hall on my team over the course of the past year. Ladd is having a great season offensively, obviously, but is versatile, and is a recognized character guy that always seems to end up playing a role on championship teams ('05 WJHCs, '06 Canes, '10 Hawks). Unless Perry has a great playoff run with Anaheim this year, I'd much rather see Ladd there in 2014 than him.

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04-17-2013, 12:36 PM
  #120
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Off the top of my head...

Nash - Crosby - Iginla

Benn - Stammer - Giroux

Hall - Toews - St Louis

Lucic - Bergeron - Perry

Letang - Weber

Keith - Seabrook

Doughty - Subban

Carey Price

Luongo

Cam Ward

Those would be my picks. Also additional extra guys like Getzlaf, Kane, etc


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04-17-2013, 01:19 PM
  #121
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Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Hartnell - Toews - Giroux
Hall - Getzlaf - Perry
Marchand - Bergeron - E.Staal
Stamkos

Doughty - Weber
Letang - Subban
Keith - J.Schultz
Del Zotto

Fleury
Crawford
Luongo

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04-17-2013, 03:50 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by XeO View Post
Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Hartnell - Toews - Giroux
Hall - Getzlaf - Perry
Marchand - Bergeron - E.Staal
Stamkos

Doughty - Weber
Letang - Subban
Keith - J.Schultz
Del Zotto

Fleury
Crawford
Luongo
Well, I would do that differently , but I'm sure this team would still beat the teams such as Finland, Norway, Switzerland, Czechs and Slovaks. Maybe they would win the gold, but I would rather see players like St. Louis, Nash, Tavares, Pietrangelo and Price with the gold, cause I think they're just ....much better than Dupuis, J.Schultz etc... Still you definitely have 14 or 16 players who will be in Sochi for sure.

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04-17-2013, 03:56 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeO View Post
Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Hartnell - Toews - Giroux
Hall - Getzlaf - Perry
Marchand - Bergeron - E.Staal
Stamkos
Let me guess... you were born in Canada but you now live in the North East U.S.


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04-17-2013, 04:01 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by XeO View Post
Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Hartnell - Toews - Giroux
Hall - Getzlaf - Perry
Marchand - Bergeron - E.Staal
Stamkos

Doughty - Weber
Letang - Subban
Keith - J.Schultz
Del Zotto

Fleury
Crawford
Luongo
I don't like and definitely don't agree with the idea of Stamkos sitting on the bench as the 13th forward while guys like Dupuis, Kunitz, Hartnell and Perry see prime ice time. Tavares, Nash, and St. Louis need to be there as well. Schultz and MDZ shouldn't be there (especially considering you already have Letang and Subban) - Pietrangelo, Staal, and Hamhuis would be huge upgrades defensively.

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04-18-2013, 02:54 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeO View Post
Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Hartnell - Toews - Giroux
Hall - Getzlaf - Perry
Marchand - Bergeron - E.Staal
Stamkos

Doughty - Weber
Letang - Subban
Keith - J.Schultz
Del Zotto

Fleury
Crawford
Luongo
i don't even...

this team isn't playing for a medal...and may well end up in the relegation round.

i get it's not supposed to be an "all star" team we're putting together...but this isn't a repeat of Vancouver - the team is going to have to be effective on international ice. This means that speed, high quality skating, and effective offense are going to be at a premium.

you have stamkos as your 13th forward - and have hartnell, dupuis, and kunitz in your top 6. brad marchand is on the team; tavares isn't. fleury is your #1 goalie; luongo is #3; crawford is there, price isn't...i could go on but i won't

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