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2013-14 Flyers Overhaul

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Old
04-18-2013, 11:09 AM
  #401
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
How do you think we should solve our need for a defenseman. I'm not trying to be an ass, just interested in your opinion.
Pretty much the only way these guys get moved is if a team is in a serious cap crunch and have younger players they need to retain(cap crunch). Pronger was one of those type of deals. I still can't believe Chara made it to UFA. We need to find a team that is desperate for young high end talent up front(which we have) or a team up against it's eternal cap.

Only a few teams come to mind.

St Louis
Nashville
Phoenix

Now the two top ones are extremely unlikely. Phoenix is a better option, but we have mixed feelings about Yandle on here.

Streit is the only free agent that might be worth signing as a free agent. He will cost a good amount though. If they could convince him to sign here for 2 years than he wouldn't be a bad pick up(he is looking for 3 at 5.5, on the UFA market, he might get even more). Streit also only started playing in the NHL at the age of 27(I am almost sure) with Montreal. So his body hasn't taken the pounding and abuse that usual defenders have since the age of 22-24 have taken. He is on pace for a 50 point season as a 35 year old. He would look nice back there, but we would need to move someone to fit him in. Coburn would be my choice.

Actually thinking about it, I might give Streit a 3 year deal. We won't have Kimmo after next year, and we could potentially have 2 defenders(our pick from this year, hopefully Nurse and Ghost) challenging in two years here. Their small salaries would off set Streit's deal some what. I don't think we will see his production drastically fall either.


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04-18-2013, 11:22 AM
  #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
IMy Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell / Claude Giroux/ Jakub Voracek
Brayden Schenn / Sean Couturier/ Wayne Simmonds
Simon Gagne/ Scott Laughton / Matt Read
Maxime Talbot / Adam Hall/ Zac Rinaldo
Jay Rosehill
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen/ Luke Schenn
Braydon Coburn / Erik Gustafsson
Nicklas Grossmann/ Chris Pronger
Bruno Gervais
Marc-Andre Bourdon
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov
Steve Mason
OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis
Buyout: Danny Briere
Buyout: Andrej Meszaros
------
There are some interesting possibilities in your lineup. However, I would tweak it some. First I would not buy out Meszaros. He has only one year left on his deal. The buyouts are too valuable to use on a guy with a short contract. Additionally, he has six months to heal up. If he is healthy he is a valuable third pair defenseman.
I would buy out Bryz. Mason might be a gamble as the starter but if a decent alternative is brought in to pair with him, there's less left to chance. There will be decent goalies out on the market this summer. I don't like the idea of having Bryz around the locker room to be a distraction if he isn't the clear starter and by what we have seen recently, he doesn't deserve that role.
I like your forward lines. Look out for McGinn and Cousins to push for jobs in camp. McGinn has shown that he can play in the league. Cousins just seems to have an ability to find a way to get the puck into a net.
On defense, I can see Coburn being moved for a PMD. Schenn and Grossman would be the first pair; Second would be the acquired defenseman and Meszaros; third pairing would be Timonen and Ristolainen (#1 pick who is NHL ready); Gustaffson would be the seventh defender.

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04-18-2013, 11:26 AM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Pretty much the only way these guys get moved is if a team is in a serious cap crunch and have younger players they need to retain(cap crunch). Pronger was one of those type of deals. I still can't believe Chara made it to UFA. We need to find a team that is desperate for young high end talent up front(which we have) or a team up against it's eternal cap.

Only a few teams come to mind.

St Louis
Nashville
Phoenix

Now the two top ones are extremely unlikely. Phoenix is a better option, but we have mixed feelings about Yandle on here.

Streit is the only free agent that might be worth signing as a free agent. He will cost a good amount though. If they could convince him to sign here for 2 years than he wouldn't be a bad pick up(he is looking for 3 at 5.5, on the UFA market, he might get even more). Streit also only started playing in the NHL at the age of 27(I am almost sure) with Montreal. So his body hasn't taken the pounding and abuse that usual defenders have since the age of 22-24 have taken. He is on pace for a 50 point season as a 35 year old. He would look nice back there, but we would need to move someone to fit him in. Coburn would be my choice.

Actually thinking about it, I might give Streit a 3 year deal. We won't have Kimmo after next year, and we could potentially have 2 defenders(our pick from this year, hopefully Nurse and Ghost) challenging in two years here. Their small salaries would off set Streit's deal some what. I don't think we will see his production drastically fall either.
Streit would be a good choice. I think Hainsey as well for different reasons. He isn't an offensive defenseman like Streit but is steady top 4 veteran who eats up 20 plus minutes. You could pair him with Luke Schenn for the next few years as the veteran backbone as Luke rounds out his game. It would free up Timonen to be paired with Coburn again as Kimmo will provide the veteran stability Coburn needs. Then you you have Grossman and Gus as the 3rd pair with Mezz healing up.

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04-18-2013, 11:27 AM
  #404
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I wouldnt buy out meszaros. I would trade him. I put him as a buyout in capgeek, because that was the only way to get his caphit off.

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04-18-2013, 11:29 AM
  #405
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
I wouldnt buy out meszaros. I would trade him. I put him as a buyout in capgeek, because that was the only way to get his caphit off.
I think that we can get one year out of him as a third pair defender. After that, say bye and thanks.

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04-18-2013, 11:31 AM
  #406
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The only reason to trade Mezsaros (for nothing, essentially) is to free up the cap space to sign Streit (or maybe Hainsey).

The problem is that those deals are going to run 3+ years, and that could create some issues after next season, when there are a bunch of guys to be re-signed. Keeping Meszaros provides the maximum amount of flexibility--you can deal him at the deadline, let him walk, etc.

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04-18-2013, 11:36 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
Streit would be a good choice. I think Hainsey as well for different reasons. He isn't an offensive defenseman like Streit but is steady top 4 veteran who eats up 20 plus minutes. You could pair him with Luke Schenn for the next few years as the veteran backbone as Luke rounds out his game. It would free up Timonen to be paired with Coburn again as Kimmo will provide the veteran stability Coburn needs. Then you you have Grossman and Gus as the 3rd pair with Mezz healing up.
I like Streit more than Hainsey because of his speed. Hainsey at times really pisses off the Winnipeg crew because of his inconsistency sometimes.

I would honestly entertain moving Coburn only if we get the right deal. 1st+a/b prospect. People don't seem to think he holds that value, but the guy is a workhorse and is rarely hurt. He maybe inconsistent at times but he will always be there(of course expect this year).

Kimmo(6)-Schenn(3.6)
Streit(5.5)-Grossmann(3.5)
Gus(1.2)-Mez(4)

Total 23.8. It would save us more than 3.3 million in cap dollars.

or

Kimmo(6)-Cobrun(4.5)
Streit(5.5)-Schenn(3.6)
Mez(4)-Grossmann(3.5)

The second group looks better, but it would take up a huge part of our cap. 27.1 million would be tied up to our defense. We will know better what out plans are at the draft, but if we trade Coburn there, I fully expect us to target Streit or Hainsey with the cap space.

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04-18-2013, 11:36 AM
  #408
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Homer is ALWAYS active (whether it's afor a 7th d-man or a top 9 forward) so I think we can expect with a terrible season, Homer will be forced to look at landing another top 9 forward. I can see him liking Horton for example.

Realistically:
Quote:
Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek (I expect this to 100% be the top line next season.)

xxx-Schenn-Simmonds
xxx-Couturier-Read
Talbot-xxx-Rinaldo
Rosehill

Timonen-Schenn
Coburn-xxx
Grossmann-xxx
Gervias

Bryz
Mason

The xxx's I see are open spots. Offensively there are legitimately 3 open spots going into the offseason at the moment. I truely hope they resign Hall. I do think they will contemplate if Laughton is NHL ready (which they think he is it seems) and try to imagine him as the 4th line center, thus us not resigning Hall. This, I think, would be the wrong course of action as I think Hall is the 4th line PK center we have needed here since Betts. For debate sake say Hall is resigned, that leaves two spots.

Now while I like Gagne, I think they will think VERY hard to see if he complements the 3rd line. While he is a solid two way presence, Homer MIGHT go out and try to grab a top 9 OFFENSIVE forward now that Briere is bought out. Whether that is a Horton or Gagne or someone else I don't know. For the other spot, Laughton has a HIGHER chance than any other rookie to win it. Now it's where to play him. Laughton is supposedly a very good faceoff guy, so do you play him as a wing or center moving Schenn back to wing? Maybe allow him to take faceoffs then back to wing type of deal. Something that worked VERY well in the AHL is Schenn-Couturier with Schenn on the wing. Something to think about.



On one defensive position, I'm FAIRLY confident that we will see Gustafsson take one of those spots. They are playing him a ton right now to see how he does and honestly, has handled it perfectly. His advanced stats are flying through the roof. He has faced the 3rd hardest competition (his QOC is higher than Coburns) while his QOT (his teammate quality) has been playing with weakest corsi teammates. His overall corsi is 3rd behind Timonen and Schenn. His performance since coming back has been stellar and I think they expect him to be in the top 6 for now on.

Now the other defensive position, which is presumably going to be the #4 spot next to Coburn has a good chance to be filled through free agency. Hopefully Homer looks at his defense and doesnt think that Gervias-Gustafsson should be the 3rd pairing again. Leave Gervias as the #7 who can fill in when someone is hurt. The best chance is to grab either Streit, Hainsey, or Regehr. I think the one that would benefit the team the most would be Streit and if he doesnt resign with Islanders, I do think that is one player Homer WILL make a play for. He fits the team needs, and balances out that defense nicely. Streit will cost alot though, so thats where I think they either try to trade Mez or seriously consider buying him out.


I personally dont see TOO many changes but Homer, Im guessing here, will try to land a decently big-time player.

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04-18-2013, 11:41 AM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
The only reason to trade Mezsaros (for nothing, essentially) is to free up the cap space to sign Streit (or maybe Hainsey).

The problem is that those deals are going to run 3+ years, and that could create some issues after next season, when there are a bunch of guys to be re-signed. Keeping Meszaros provides the maximum amount of flexibility--you can deal him at the deadline, let him walk, etc.
I don't think the salary cap is going to be that much of a worry then. The cap will go up from next years value especially with the cash grab outdoor game bonanza. Giroux is going to get a bunch but I doubt Couturier or B.Schenn will. Read will be a goner. Whoever they draft this year in the 1st will probably be on the team plus maybe Gostibehere (if he is as good as he projects to be the Flyers will rush him). Also Bryz will probably be bought out next summer, even though some of his buyout will have to be invested into the goaltending position.

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04-18-2013, 11:44 AM
  #410
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Mez shouldnt be here next year. It's stupid to be paying your 5th defenseman $4m. Just wasted cap space

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04-18-2013, 11:47 AM
  #411
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I don't think the salary cap is going to be that much of a worry then. The cap will go up from next years value especially with the cash grab outdoor game bonanza. Giroux is going to get a bunch but I doubt Couturier or B.Schenn will. Read will be a goner. Whoever they draft this year in the 1st will probably be on the team plus maybe Gostibehere (if he is as good as he projects to be the Flyers will rush him). Also Bryz will probably be bought out next summer, even though some of his buyout will have to be invested into the goaltending position.
This is what I'm worried about. Matt Read is an incredibly valuable part of this team--now and going forward. If you assume that Briere does get bought out at some point, Read leaving is not an insignificant problem. He can play all three forwards slows on either the 2nd or 3rd line--and with Fedotenko projected to be gone, he's an important part of the PK.

There's no cap issue as long as the Flyers don't do something stupid this offseason. Signing Streit to a 3 or 4 year, $5.5+ contract would qualify, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
...
The xxx's I see are open spots. Offensively there are legitimately 3 open spots going into the offseason at the moment. I truely hope they resign Hall. I do think they will contemplate if Laughton is NHL ready (which they think he is it seems) and try to imagine him as the 4th line center, thus us not resigning Hall. This, I think, would be the wrong course of action as I think Hall is the 4th line PK center we have needed here since Betts. For debate sake say Hall is resigned, that leaves two spots.

Now while I like Gagne, I think they will think VERY hard to see if he complements the 3rd line. While he is a solid two way presence, Homer MIGHT go out and try to grab a top 9 OFFENSIVE forward now that Briere is bought out. Whether that is a Horton or Gagne or someone else I don't know. For the other spot, Laughton has a HIGHER chance than any other rookie to win it. Now it's where to play him. Laughton is supposedly a very good faceoff guy, so do you play him as a wing or center moving Schenn back to wing? Maybe allow him to take faceoffs then back to wing type of deal. Something that worked VERY well in the AHL is Schenn-Couturier with Schenn on the wing. Something to think about.

On one defensive position, I'm FAIRLY confident that we will see Gustafsson take one of those spots. They are playing him a ton right now to see how he does and honestly, has handled it perfectly. His advanced stats are flying through the roof. He has faced the 3rd hardest competition (his QOC is higher than Coburns) while his QOT (his teammate quality) has been playing with weakest corsi teammates. His overall corsi is 3rd behind Timonen and Schenn. His performance since coming back has been stellar and I think they expect him to be in the top 6 for now on.

Now the other defensive position, which is presumably going to be the #4 spot next to Coburn has a good chance to be filled through free agency. Hopefully Homer looks at his defense and doesnt think that Gervias-Gustafsson should be the 3rd pairing again. Leave Gervias as the #7 who can fill in when someone is hurt. The best chance is to grab either Streit, Hainsey, or Regehr. I think the one that would benefit the team the most would be Streit and if he doesnt resign with Islanders, I do think that is one player Homer WILL make a play for. He fits the team needs, and balances out that defense nicely. Streit will cost alot though, so thats where I think they either try to trade Mez or seriously consider buying him out.


I personally dont see TOO many changes but Homer, Im guessing here, will try to land a decently big-time player.
Couldn't agree with most of this more. The only part I'd quibble with is the UFA defenseman. Unless they can get a really sweet deal on Streit, I'd prefer they aim a bit lower--maybe a reclamation project (R. Whitney) on the cheap, or a PP specialist (Bergeron?). I don't think Hainsey is a great fit, nor Regehr.

But a lot depends on the draft. There's a chance we end up with a player who has a lower ceiling but is more NHL ready (Ristolainen, in particular) who could challenge for a spot. I'm not saying that would be wise, but it is another variable.


Last edited by Jack de la Hoya: 04-18-2013 at 11:53 AM.
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Old
04-18-2013, 11:51 AM
  #412
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With all the injuries to Mez right now, there probably won't be a team in the league who wants to trade for him. He is here for next year unless we buy him out(doubtful). I still say we try to trade Briere to save us one of those buyouts, if he agrees he helps the organization out plus gets to pick where he goes. I know I know, money money money, but Briere has made plenty of money in his career. He might take the Gags way and say money isn't a huge issue at this point in his career.

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04-18-2013, 11:52 AM
  #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Pretty much the only way these guys get moved is if a team is in a serious cap crunch and have younger players they need to retain(cap crunch). Pronger was one of those type of deals. I still can't believe Chara made it to UFA. We need to find a team that is desperate for young high end talent up front(which we have) or a team up against it's eternal cap.

Only a few teams come to mind.

St Louis
Nashville
Phoenix

Now the two top ones are extremely unlikely. Phoenix is a better option, but we have mixed feelings about Yandle on here.

Streit is the only free agent that might be worth signing as a free agent. He will cost a good amount though. If they could convince him to sign here for 2 years than he wouldn't be a bad pick up(he is looking for 3 at 5.5, on the UFA market, he might get even more). Streit also only started playing in the NHL at the age of 27(I am almost sure) with Montreal. So his body hasn't taken the pounding and abuse that usual defenders have since the age of 22-24 have taken. He is on pace for a 50 point season as a 35 year old. He would look nice back there, but we would need to move someone to fit him in. Coburn would be my choice.

Actually thinking about it, I might give Streit a 3 year deal. We won't have Kimmo after next year, and we could potentially have 2 defenders(our pick from this year, hopefully Nurse and Ghost) challenging in two years here. Their small salaries would off set Streit's deal some what. I don't think we will see his production drastically fall either.
I also agree on Streit. 3 x $5.5 million is a lot, but if they buy out Briere this year and Timonen retires after next year it should be doable. And of course if they buy out Bryz that makes it even easier.

Ideally the Flyers are able to draft either Nurse or Jones, sign Streit, and then they would still need another young guy to bring along but the urgency wouldn't be as bad. Maybe Gus can even be that guy, but it wouldn't hurt to look around for more options.

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04-18-2013, 11:55 AM
  #414
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With all the injuries to Mez right now, there probably won't be a team in the league who wants to trade for him. He is here for next year unless we buy him out(doubtful). I still say we try to trade Briere to save us one of those buyouts, if he agrees he helps the organization out plus gets to pick where he goes. I know I know, money money money, but Briere has made plenty of money in his career. He might take the Gags way and say money isn't a huge issue at this point in his career.
Briere has said he would do all in his power to stay in Philadelphia, and, according to Clement, has already declined to waive his NMC. I don't see that changing this offseason. He's either bought out or back.

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04-18-2013, 12:16 PM
  #415
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This is what I'm worried about. Matt Read is an incredibly valuable part of this team--now and going forward. If you assume that Briere does get bought out at some point, Read leaving is not an insignificant problem. He can play all three forwards slows on either the 2nd or 3rd line--and with Fedotenko projected to be gone, he's an important part of the PK.
Read is a great player at $900 and a nice player in the $3million range. But he will be a UFA and the going rate for 20 goal scorers was 4 plus before the lockout and it goes up every year. Anything over 4 for Read diminishes his value.

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04-18-2013, 12:23 PM
  #416
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Read is a great player at $900 and a nice player in the $3million range. But he will be a UFA and the going rate for 20 goal scorers was 4 plus before the lockout and it goes up every year. Anything over 4 for Read diminishes his value.
If they get out-bid for Read, so be it. But signing Hainsey as a slight upgrade on the #4 defenseman slot would make it difficult for the Flyers to bring Read back even at a good price.

I understand the case for Streit--he brings a proven skillset that the team lacks. I just don't get the sudden love for Hainsey. He's just another solid-but-not-spectacular 3/4/5 type.

I'm not even sure Hainsey is better than a healthy Meszaros--granted, I haven't seen one of those in a while.

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04-18-2013, 12:44 PM
  #417
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I wouldn't mind using read as a bargaining piece along with a pick or two to bring in a defenseman or to move up in the draft. He could easily slot into the first line on some of the bottom teams in the league and is a very valuable player. Like others have said I would like to keep him for around three million, but I don't see that happening.

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04-18-2013, 12:50 PM
  #418
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If they get out-bid for Read, so be it. But signing Hainsey as a slight upgrade on the #4 defenseman slot would make it difficult for the Flyers to bring Read back even at a good price.

I understand the case for Streit--he brings a proven skillset that the team lacks. I just don't get the sudden love for Hainsey. He's just another solid-but-not-spectacular 3/4/5 type.

I'm not even sure Hainsey is better than a healthy Meszaros--granted, I haven't seen one of those in a while.
Hainsey is just a solid veteran 3-4 guy but I think there is great value in pairing someone like that with Luke Schenn while he continues to develop. Coburn has shown flashes of great defensive play when he was paired with a steady veteran partner but falls apart when he is the lead guy. I am not saying Schenn is Coburn, but why chance it. You could also pair Hainsey with Coburn and improve his play. Hainsey has done a good job helping out Bogosian.

The Flyers are about to begin the process of bringing in young defensemen into the lineup, like Gostibehere and hopefull their 1st rd pick this year. Timonen is leaving after next season. Having a steady guy to mentor young defensemen is never a bad thing to have. Coburn can't do and Luke is still too young.

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04-18-2013, 12:54 PM
  #419
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Hainsey is just a solid veteran 3-4 guy but I think there is great value in pairing someone like that with Luke Schenn while he continues to develop. Coburn has shown flashes of great defensive play when he was paired with a steady veteran partner but falls apart when he is the lead guy. I am not saying Schenn is Coburn, but why chance it. You could also pair Hainsey with Coburn and improve his play. Hainsey has done a good job helping out Bogosian.

The Flyers are about to begin the process of bringing in young defensemen into the lineup, like Gostibehere and hopefull their 1st rd pick this year. Timonen is leaving after next season. Having a steady guy to mentor young defensemen is never a bad thing to have. Coburn can't do and Luke is still too young.
I think Grossmann can be that guy as well.

I understand what you're saying, but I just don't see that as adding up to a case to pay Hainsey $5+ over 3+ years (which I think we all agree is what it would take, given the UFA market). It just creates too many problems going forward, with a marginal return.

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04-18-2013, 12:59 PM
  #420
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I think Grossmann can be that guy as well.

I understand what you're saying, but I just don't see that as adding up to a case to pay Hainsey $5+ over 3+ years (which I think we all agree is what it would take, given the UFA market). It just creates too many problems going forward, with a marginal return.
I agree that the salary part would suck. However, I am hoping that the Flyers will be adding a few ELC's to their defense corp over the next couple of years after next season that it won't really matter.

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04-18-2013, 09:04 PM
  #421
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Mez shouldnt be here next year. It's stupid to be paying your 5th defenseman $4m. Just wasted cap space
when he is healthy Mez is your #3 or #4 dman. Grossman is a solid 5 that you can spot for match ups.

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04-18-2013, 09:13 PM
  #422
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
when he is healthy Mez is your #3 or #4 dman. Grossman is a solid 5 that you can spot for match ups.
He can't be trusted to stay healthy. I wouldn't even have him in my plans if I was homer. If he is healthy then that is a plus but seems highly unlikely since he hasn't been healthy in three years

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04-18-2013, 09:34 PM
  #423
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
He can't be trusted to stay healthy. I wouldn't even have him in my plans if I was homer. If he is healthy then that is a plus but seems highly unlikely since he hasn't been healthy in three years
last season and this season he has had issues but he won the barry ashbee award the season before that.

i def wouldn't plan on him past next season.

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04-18-2013, 09:58 PM
  #424
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last season and this season he has had issues but he won the barry ashbee award the season before that.

i def wouldn't plan on him past next season.
Thing is, his injuries haven't been little things like groin pulls, ankle sprains, etc...

They've been pretty major shoulder and elbow injuries. (Possibly knee? Can't remember)

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04-18-2013, 10:01 PM
  #425
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Thing is, his injuries haven't been little things like groin pulls, ankle sprains, etc...

They've been pretty major shoulder and elbow injuries. (Possibly knee? Can't remember)
Which is why he has no trade value. But I still don't think he's worth buying out. If he can play, he's a fine 3rd-pairing, 2nd PP option. If not, he goes on LTIR and leaves after next season.

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