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Burns, future forward for life?

View Poll Results: Will burns spend more time on the ice as a forward or as a defenseman next season?
More time on the ice as a forward 30 41.10%
More time on the ice as a defenseman 43 58.90%
Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-16-2013, 10:55 PM
  #126
PlaywithGutz
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Also, to address this point, that's what everyone arguing to move Burns back to D long term is saying. It's easier to replace Burns at forward (IF his ppg regress back to under a ppg) than it is to replace Burns/Boyle on defense.
you would think that could be true but you would be wrong..

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04-18-2013, 02:21 AM
  #127
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then tonight Hedican says how Burns can exert himself as a forward and apply his learned-as-a-dman "stopping the puck and the blueline" skills to create chances in the offensive zone and w/o worry have someone behind him to play D if things don't work out.

have to say Burns was all over the ice in a way a defenseman couldn't be w/o being deemed irreponsible. The Sharks have nothing else like that in their line up, until Torres was acquired. Also, props to Torres for doing his thing tonight against the Kings. i was a bit on the fence when the Sharks acquired him, but (a clean playing) Torres is kinda like Burns-at-forward lite. (Torres just doesn't have the shot Burns does, and gives up a bit on skating, otherwise, similar game to burns at forward)


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04-18-2013, 05:45 AM
  #128
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The only way Burns should go back to D is if he stops being the most productive winger on the team. Even if he drops to number 2 I'm not sure you move him back. Oh... and multiple injuries to the D core. Whether that happens this year or 3 years from now doesn't matter. Other than that you make due with what we have back on D as it's been working just fine since his move to forward.

If he's a legit winger putting up 60 to 80 points a season you keep him up there because this organization has no one coming from juniors or the minors that can produce like that. Among the sharks young D, Irwin, Tenny, Demers, one of them will end up as a 40 point D man.

As hard as a number one D-man is to acquire or develop, a forward with burns size, skill and skating ability is almost as hard to find. Now that the strength of the teams development system is in it's young D, I don't think it's that much of an issue to leave Burns up front.

One thing to think about... a lot has been made about the defense's lack of points as a unit. I think if the forwards were more productive as a unit the D core would have more points.


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04-18-2013, 08:22 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
The only way Bruns should go back to D is if he stops being the most productive winger on the team. Even if he drops to number 2 I'm not sure you move him back. Oh... and multiple injuries to the D core. Whether that happens this year or 3 years from now doesn't matter. Other than that you make due with what we have back on D as it's been working just fine since his move to forward.

If he's a legit winger putting up 60 to 80 points a season you keep him up there because this organization has no one coming from juniors or the minors that can produce like that. Among the sharks young D, Irwin, Tenny, Demers, one of them will end up as a 40 point D man.

As hard as a number one D-man is to acquire or develop, a forward with burns size, skill and skating ability is almost as hard to find. Now that the strength of the teams development system is in it's young D, I don't think it's that much of an issue to leave Burns up front.

One thing to think about... a lot has been made about the defense's lack of points as a unit. I think if the forwards were more productive as a unit the D core would have more points.
They don't need to have someone coming up to replace his production on the wing. They can make a trade with their depth on defense. Having a legitimate #1 d-man is more important than having that guy be a winger producing in sheltered minutes.

Yeah they have some guys that may be able to produce but none of them are #1 caliber guys that can do both producing and shutting down at a high level. And that will eventually catch up to you come playoff time.

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04-18-2013, 10:53 AM
  #130
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Burns will go back to D. That would be my prediction.

The organization feels confident in its ability to draft and develop forwards (and goalies), but not defensemen of Burns's ilk (#1 D-man with size/physicality).

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04-18-2013, 11:04 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
Burns will go back to D. That would be my prediction.

The organization feels confident in its ability to draft and develop forwards (and goalies), but not defensemen of Burns's ilk (#1 D-man with size/physicality).
not to many teams can boast that kind of accomplishment though lol. defensemen of burns's ilk just do not come along that often.

of course there are plenty of hulking defensemen in the league, but not to many that can bring speed, a good shot, good defense, and great offense from the back side.

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04-18-2013, 11:35 AM
  #132
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not to many teams can boast that kind of accomplishment though lol. defensemen of burns's ilk just do not come along that often.

of course there are plenty of hulking defensemen in the league, but not to many that can bring speed, a good shot, good defense, and great offense from the back side.
From what I understand, the organization feels/knows it has deficiencies in drafting and developing both top offensive D-men and top two-way/physical D-men.

The former they feel is a developmental issue at the NHL level, which I suspect is why they brought Robinson on. They acknowledge that they haven't drafted many guys who could be premier offensive d-men, but they see that as a function of draft position more than anything.

When it comes to Burns/Blake/Pronger types of D-men, I know that the Sharks felt that was an issue more to do with development; they felt that they had drafted players with talent that people throughout the organization like Sommer/Ricci/Wilson mishandled. Personally, I would suspect that they have evolved on this issue. It is clear that players like Wishart and Petrecki were overrated from the start; it isn't like they went to Worcester and suddenly started "sucking"...

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04-18-2013, 11:45 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
From what I understand, the organization feels/knows it has deficiencies in drafting and developing both top offensive D-men and top two-way/physical D-men.

The former they feel is a developmental issue at the NHL level, which I suspect is why they brought Robinson on. They acknowledge that they haven't drafted many guys who could be premier offensive d-men, but they see that as a function of draft position more than anything.

When it comes to Burns/Blake/Pronger types of D-men, I know that the Sharks felt that was an issue more to do with development; they felt that they had drafted players with talent that people throughout the organization like Sommer/Ricci/Wilson mishandled. Personally, I would suspect that they have evolved on this issue. It is clear that players like Wishart and Petrecki were overrated from the start; it isn't like they went to Worcester and suddenly started "sucking"...
petrecki wasn't over rated i don't think, like robinson says he is nhl ready for what he was brought in for (murray replacement), big body, big hitter, sound defensively, and not an entire albatross on offense like murray is/was.

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04-18-2013, 12:09 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
petrecki wasn't over rated i don't think, like robinson says he is nhl ready for what he was brought in for (murray replacement), big body, big hitter, sound defensively, and not an entire albatross on offense like murray is/was.
I think the Sharks were thinking they had the next Rob Blake in Petrecki, or at least a rich man's Murray. Petrecki is barely NHL-caliber at this point.

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04-18-2013, 12:48 PM
  #135
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After finally getting to see Burns LIVE playing winger, it furthers my belief he stays at winger..The guy wreaks havoc everywhere..AND HE SHOOTS THE PUCK!!!
It has also forced JT to shoot the puck more due to Burns controlling the board play and ability to pass and allowng JT the positioning to shoot more. it has to be a ***** trying to match up against two 6-4" 220lb-ers that control the puck as well as they do...Did you see that sick stick handling by Burns in the Phx Game!!!

I like/agree with PF about going after White from Detroit in the offseason possibly to allow Burns play at F1 to continue..

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04-18-2013, 01:07 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
After finally getting to see Burns LIVE playing winger, it furthers my belief he stays at winger..The guy wreaks havoc everywhere..AND HE SHOOTS THE PUCK!!!
It has also forced JT to shoot the puck more due to Burns controlling the board play and ability to pass and allowng JT the positioning to shoot more. it has to be a ***** trying to match up against two 6-4" 220lb-ers that control the puck as well as they do...Did you see that sick stick handling by Burns in the Phx Game!!!

I like/agree with PF about going after White from Detroit in the offseason possibly to allow Burns play at F1 to continue..
at one they had what 3 forwards, marleau 6'2 220lbs, heatley 6'4 218lbs, thornton 6'4 225lbs, and then i believe it also had murray on defense at 6'3 245lbs.

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04-18-2013, 01:48 PM
  #137
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at one they had what 3 forwards, marleau 6'2 220lbs, heatley 6'4 218lbs, thornton 6'4 225lbs, and then i believe it also had murray on defense at 6'3 245lbs.
Ya that line put up some points. But Heater is a turd other than sniping, no board play,skates meh,no puck skill..Patty to predictable and controlling the play not his strong suit..Burns in the O-zone first w/ the puck changes everything. Does he shoot? Pass? Again his puck control allows Gali and JT scoring chances that didnt exist before..Bottom line the offense isnt dependent on JT to make a great pass in order to score..

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04-18-2013, 01:54 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
Ya that line put up some points. But Heater is a turd other than sniping, no board play,skates meh,no puck skill..Patty to predictable and controlling the play not his strong suit..Burns in the O-zone first w/ the puck changes everything. Does he shoot? Pass? Again his puck control allows Gali and JT scoring chances that didnt exist before..Bottom line the offense isnt dependent on JT to make a great pass in order to score..
pretty telling though, that with that line they went to back to back conference finals, and thornton for the most part shed his choking title.

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04-18-2013, 01:58 PM
  #139
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it was a well setup line. the gali/thornton/burns line is similar but everyone can skate/backcheck. gali is just weak on the boards is all.

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04-18-2013, 02:14 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by PlaywithGutz View Post
you would think that could be true but you would be wrong..
Except that he is absolutely correct.

It's much easier to acquire a solid shooter to take thornton's passes, than it is to get a good puck moving defenseman, especially when you look at the cap hit.

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04-18-2013, 02:21 PM
  #141
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Burns' unpredictability makes the sharks offense a lot better. Other teams can't just tailor their D to what Joe will do.

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04-18-2013, 02:23 PM
  #142
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Except that he is absolutely correct.

It's much easier to acquire a solid shooter to take thornton's passes, than it is to get a good puck moving defenseman, especially when you look at the cap hit.
at forward or defense, there just aren't many players in the league like burns. and the ones that play like him on both forward and defense are basically untouchable.

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04-18-2013, 02:29 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
Burns will go back to D. That would be my prediction.

The organization feels confident in its ability to draft and develop forwards (and goalies), but not defensemen of Burns's ilk (#1 D-man with size/physicality).
Tim Burke's comment is that they might as well get a dman if no targeted choice is available at any point in the draft. That comment falls in line with their strategy. They select more dmen and goalies than most other teams. I wouldn't say that it indicates that their self-evaluation would include confidence in drafting forwards. I would say that comment and actions indicate their confidence in their ability to develop value in dmen and goalies.

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04-19-2013, 01:13 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
at forward or defense, there just aren't many players in the league like burns. and the ones that play like him on both forward and defense are basically untouchable.
This.

But to add one thing... his impact on the team so far has been much greater as a forward than it was as a defenseman.

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04-19-2013, 02:35 AM
  #145
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I'm gonna say it.

Burns has never been the Defensman people projected him to be. He has been a #1 power forward - In The NHL!

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Last edited by Led Zappa: 04-19-2013 at 10:37 AM.
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04-19-2013, 03:24 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Tim Burke's comment is that they might as well get a dman if no targeted choice is available at any point in the draft. That comment falls in line with their strategy. They select more dmen and goalies than most other teams. I wouldn't say that it indicates that their self-evaluation would include confidence in drafting forwards. I would say that comment and actions indicate their confidence in their ability to develop value in dmen and goalies.
What I am saying is just coming from the conservations I have had with people in the organization + a little speculation on how things might have changed.

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04-19-2013, 10:05 AM
  #147
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I'm gonna say it.

Burns has never been the Defensman people projected him to be. He's has been a #1 power forward - In The NHL!
funny thing is, how does one get so highly projected, when he never played a game in his life as a defensemen until he started in the nhl? lol

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04-19-2013, 12:52 PM
  #148
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Zero points in a six goal win, move him back to D immediately

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04-19-2013, 01:14 PM
  #149
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funny thing is, how does one get so highly projected, when he never played a game in his life as a defensemen until he started in the nhl? lol
Size, skating, physicality etc

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04-19-2013, 01:16 PM
  #150
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ive never been sold on him as a true #1. great #2, especially offensively. and overall ive never been confident in his defensive game. either way, the argument remains the same. could all be a flash in the pan, the young d core we have could falter heavily in the playoffs especially with boyle on the decline.

management/coaching staff will have to travel several different options in the off season.

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