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Joe Sacco named USA's HC for World Championships

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Old
04-17-2013, 02:54 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by anleva View Post
I will start working on the bronze Sacco statue for outside the Pepsi Center.
Can't we just give him Joe Sakic's stall in the locker room?

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04-17-2013, 04:46 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
Can't we just give him Joe Sakic's stall in the locker room?
Actually they need to put a realistic wax figure of Joe Sakic in that stall. Or better yet an animatron. When the team is down or on a losing streak Sacco could walk over, push a button and the animatron could say something wonderfully inspirational and captain-like. Wouldn't have to rely on Giggy anymore.

Avalanche could also charge admission and make a little extra cash to help their budget. Wonder if Disney could help?

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04-17-2013, 05:33 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by anleva View Post
Actually they need to put a realistic wax figure of Joe Sakic in that stall. Or better yet an animatron. When the team is down or on a losing streak Sacco could walk over, push a button and the animatron could say something wonderfully inspirational and captain-like. Wouldn't have to rely on Giggy anymore.

Avalanche could also charge admission and make a little extra cash to help their budget. Wonder if Disney could help?
Too busy mAking starwars on ice and bedazzeling leahs buns with fairy dust.

Edit. That was meant as a not nice thing but I bring my kids to Disney on ice every year... some star wars breaking up the monotony of lilo and stitch and **** could be cool if done right.

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04-17-2013, 05:43 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
How exactly did I compare McClement with Parenteau? I simply mentioned that one was on our team last year and the other is on our team this year. If I had the choice between either, I would take Parenteau's offense over whatever slight boost McClement gives us on defense/PK any day.

Yeah, clearly I'm comparing one with the other.

As far as the 2nd part, there IS such a thing as making bad decisions and it affects the whole roster. I remember after Barrie got scratched and the team started to flounder after the big win against Chicago, about three weeks later, Barrie was inserted BACK into the lineup and A.Basin posted something like "Barrie better be paired up with Hejda and given big minutes or else Sacco is a complete moron" or something to that effect. Barrie was paired up with Zanon and given less than 20 minutes of icetime. I wasn't surprised though.

You know there have been MANY nights where Hunwick or Zanon LEAD our D-men in icetime?!? Any way you slice it, that's not a good recipe for success.

It's stuff like THAT, that makes him an idiot and a bad coach. He's NOT giving us the very best chance to win on a nightly basis.

Please mark my words, there will be a new Avalanche coach (hopefully one who's not clueless) and players like Hunwick & Zanon won't break the 18 minute mark on a nightly basis. Sacco should have been riding EJ, Hejda and Barrie and given them each 23-26 minutes of icetime per night, with the remaining time split between Elliott, SoB, Hunwick and Zanon.

Yes, I do believe that this team can be much better than they've shown this season. I said at the beginning of the year that the Avs were a 'bubble team' to make the playoffs and I believe that's where they SHOULD be.

But it's not like I'm surprised this happened, I knew it would, the day he signed his 2 year contract extension:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=111



Ah...so he makes a post essentially saying the same thing I'm saying and it's a great post?

His system requires them to be performing at 100% effort, and focus, and this simply is not sustainable. When it doesn't work, it makes it very easy for opposing teams.

Great post, Foppa!

For the most part, these players are underperforming and when you mix that in with a complete lack of any adjustment to the good 'ole dump & chase that the other team EXPECTS every night, you have this result.

Horrible post, Bender...start making some sense!!!

I'm sorry Bender, i thought Foppa's post more insightful than yours. You basically said "I don't give credit to Sacco for anything, the players did better last year despite Sacco" and your explanation for that was that he gave too much ice time to guys like Kobasew (11:50/G, btw) and Winnik. Failing to notice that Winnik played a lot with Landeskog and ROR because that line was one of our best lines.

Then, you used basically that same line of thought to justify why we are sucking so bad this year and why Sacco is an idiot. As if playing Barrie and Hejda 23 minutes per night would have made a whole lot of difference on our record. Like i said in my previous post, unfortunatelly none of our defenders have standed out, all of than have made their fair share of mistakes. But for some reason, those three guys you want playing around 23 minutes didn't get the same crap on this boards that guys like Zanon and Hunwick got for theirs.

You said yourself, after Barrie was benched (i too was mad about that) we beat Chicago and San Jose, two of our best games of the season. I don't think that the decision of benching Barrie had that big of an impact on the team's psych as you seem to think.

And right now we are playing relatively well without Jonhson. Our slide also coincided with Johnson's return from injury. So you can draw a paralell there if you want. That IMO would be malicious btw. So, i'm sorry if i'm not ready to call Sacco an idiot for not playing EJ 25 minutes per night, when EJ hasn't done anything of real notice for us offensively this year.

Like Nihiliste said, there is no point keeping this argument much longer, since we are never going to agree on how much responsability for this mess belongs to Sacco. The biggest point of disagreement is that you certainly values some of our players more than i do. I also don't agree entirely with Foppa's post as he also puts a lot of the blame for the underachievement of guys like EJ, Stastny and Jones on Sacco's shoulders.

While i'm not a Sacco fan (not even close), i just can't put all the blame on him, much less call him an idiot. I've been following sports my entire life to know that every coach has looked like an idiot at one point, just to be called a genius moments after. I also know that every passionate sport's fan thinks they know better than the guys calling the shots, myself included, but that's hardly ever true.

Didn't Guy Boucher was one of the hot coaching prospects in the AHL a few years ago? Where is he now? Was he considered an idiot before his hiring is he considered an idiot now?

Wasn't Peter Deboer also another hot candidate a few years ago? Wasn't he fired from the Panthers? I bet a lot of fans tought he was an idiot too. Was he an idiot last year? I think if you go to the Devils forum you will probably find a few fans that want him fired right now? There is probably a few fans that think they know more than him.

Isn't Dineen on the hot seat too? wasn't him a popular choice among many avs fans?

You talk about system and i ask, how many different hockey systems there are? This is sports, this is not rocket science. Is Sacco really that dumb that he doesn't know any other system? Or maybe he doesn't have the players to play another game?

Did the Anaheim Ducks that went to the finals under Babcock played a puck possession game? NO! They played the trap. Babcock played to his team's strenght.

Again, there is no point even get into that discussion since you will probably tell me how good and talented our team is, and i'm not going to buy it.

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04-17-2013, 07:18 PM
  #155
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Boucher came really close to go all the way to the SC final, he lost in the 7th game of the conf final against Boston ( who won the cup that year ) .He won the championship in the Q league and came really close to win the memorial cup ( again lost against the cup champion ) . in the AHL he also lost in a 7th in the semi-final with the Bulldogs . Add to that his experience in the international Hockey with Canada's juniors team ( a PP specialist ) .

With Tampa in his 3rd season with the team he had a record of 97-78-20 with a team who had an amazing offensive but a questionnable D-core and way Below avrage Goalies, ok they had Roloson once , but he was like 75 y old .

long story short , i'm taking Boucher over Sacco anyday of the week .

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04-17-2013, 07:26 PM
  #156
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Saccos system I don't mind. It's his lack of adaption on the fly, or totally making wack ball decisions on the fly that don't work. His minute distribution is questionable, but I mainly think it's his lack of adaptability game in and out that's Terrible.

The other coaches listed I would take in a heart beat. Even dineen.

I mean, the best coach in the world might get sacco results, but there's a definite problem and he's part of it.

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04-17-2013, 07:29 PM
  #157
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I wonder if Stastny and EJ can say no when Sacco is the coach. They can't use the tired after a hard season excuse with him.

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04-17-2013, 07:31 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I wonder if Stastny and EJ can say no when Sacco is the coach. They can't use the tired after a hard season excuse with him.
Stastny is resting for the last 3 years , i doubt he's tired

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04-17-2013, 08:14 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
Boucher came really close to go all the way to the SC final, he lost in the 7th game of the conf final against Boston ( who won the cup that year ) .He won the championship in the Q league and came really close to win the memorial cup ( again lost against the cup champion ) . in the AHL he also lost in a 7th in the semi-final with the Bulldogs . Add to that his experience in the international Hockey with Canada's juniors team ( a PP specialist ) .

With Tampa in his 3rd season with the team he had a record of 97-78-20 with a team who had an amazing offensive but a questionnable D-core and way Below avrage Goalies, ok they had Roloson once , but he was like 75 y old .

long story short , i'm taking Boucher over Sacco anyday of the week .
I'm not saying that Sacco is better than any of the coaches that i listed there, he might be the worst coach in NHL. It's not the point i'm trying to make.

Even those coaches, that were highly regarded at one point, were probably bashed by their fan bases at one point or another, just like Sacco has been bashed here. Does that make those coaches idiots? Does that means that those fans are/were right in their evaluations of those said coaches?

And it goes for every other coach, whenever the results are not there, fans complain about the same things we are complaining now "lack of a proper system", "can't get this team to play for 60 minutes", "questionable minute distribution", "constant line changes", "fell in love with player X", "bad handling of his goaltenders".

It's always the same story, it goes for Sacco, Granato, Hartley, Quenneville, etc.

Just to ilustrate what i'm talking about, i went to the Pittsburgh board and found this (posted today):

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp
Yea, he has enough talent to create two of the best "1st lines" in hockey, a good 2nd line, and a 3rd line (as opposed to a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th) and I feel like HIS way is basically creating a dominant 1st line, a 2nd line that doesn't fit together, and an unnecessarily slow 3rd line, while putting grizzled vets on the 4th line, 'cause vets.

I feel like his way is the only way to mess this up. But it's his, and I'm just some random dude sitting at home. He knows more than me. But there is no way that this roster, fully healthy (which I expect it to be for the playoffs) should not win the cup. So that should be the weight he carries.

Also: if his grand plan is to reunite Iginla - Malkin - Neal, he'd do himself some favors by leaving Iggy at LW so that he could get used to it, rather than have him stay at RW where he's comfortable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waffle Fries
It's frustrating because it just seems so easy. It's impossible to mess up the lineup as long as this is the base:

x-Crosby-Iginla
x-Malkin-Neal

I mean really. I want Bennett and Despres to play, but if they don't, fine. I want Glass to sit, but if he doesn't, I'll live.

The ONLY thing that will legitimately upset me is if he keeps Iginla and Neal together with Malkin.
Granted Bylsma hasn't reached idiot territory there yet, but if he doesn't win the SC he will get there.

Now, as i said before in another thread, i want him fired, and think he shouldn't even been hired in 2009. It was to soon for him at that time, IMO.

But acting as if the guy is a complete moron is a little naive, IMO.

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04-17-2013, 08:17 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
That offense is terrible... a total one line team Pacioretty-Stastny-Ryan. Defense is decent at best JJ is the best defender and he is really a #3 with serious holes in his defensive game. Fowler is a #3, Faulk is a 3/4, the rest are bottom pairing players. Not a single top pairing guy in the group. I'd take the Avs roster over that one every game, but teams from around the world tend to have lesser rosters than that (excluding Canada, Russia, and Sweden).
That top line could be dynamic, and there are players there who can most certainly play like Cam Atkinson, Justein Abdelkader, Kyle Okposo, and Kyle Palmeiri. The offense isn't as lackluster as you think it is

Defense decent at best? Clearly someone hasn't watched Jack Johnson play, or Cam Fowler for that matter, or Jeff Petry either. That defense on an NHL team

Johnson-Petry
Fowler-Faulk

And Goligoski on the third pairing? That's a real solid defense so I don't know what you're questioning. Point is, this USA team is likely to have a lot of talent, and Sacco is likely going to be judged accordingly

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04-17-2013, 08:23 PM
  #161
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I'm not saying that Sacco is better than any of the coaches that i listed there, he might be the worst coach in NHL. It's not the point i'm trying to make.

Even those coaches, that were highly regarded at one point, were probably bashed by their fan bases at one point or another, just like Sacco has been bashed here. Does that make those coaches idiots? Does that means that those fans are/were right in their evaluations of those said coaches?

And it goes for every other coach, whenever the results are not there, fans complain about the same things we are complaining now "lack of a proper system", "can't get this team to play for 60 minutes", "questionable minute distribution", "constant line changes", "fell in love with player X", "bad handling of his goaltenders".

It's always the same story, it goes for Sacco, Granato, Hartley, Quenneville, etc.
shame on you , saying stuff like that . After all , he won the poll

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04-17-2013, 09:33 PM
  #162
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shame on you , saying stuff like that . After all , he won the poll
Yeah, that was hilarious...

BTW, looking at this old thread that Bender posted, it is really funny to see that there was a few fans that didn't seem to mind Sacco getting an extension, certainly he didn't look like a complete idiot to a lot of folks back then.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1162033&page=7

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04-17-2013, 09:37 PM
  #163
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I mean I remember someone recently linked or bumped the Q firing thread and people were happy about it and saying a lot of things about him that sound very similar to what we say about Sacco. I do think he sucks and is possibly even worse than Granato but we also did I think expect too much from this current group Sherman put together.

Many of the teams that had quick turnarounds attributed in part to coaching (Fla, Tampa) fell back to earth soon after. We'll have to wait and see if Toronto for example can keep up what they've been doing this year. Washington also went through 3 coaches with very mediocre results before Ovechkin, Backstrom, and Green finally got their **** together. I think a coaching change CAN work for some squads, but its not always a long term boost, and it's not a guarantee. Replacing Sacco with someone competent is the first step in the right direction for our club though there are obviously others that need to be made to ensure long term success for this organization.

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04-17-2013, 10:01 PM
  #164
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shame on you , saying stuff like that . After all , he won the poll
I missed that poll...however it is pure gold

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04-18-2013, 12:36 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Sheet View Post
Saccos system I don't mind. It's his lack of adaption on the fly, or totally making wack ball decisions on the fly that don't work. His minute distribution is questionable, but I mainly think it's his lack of adaptability game in and out that's Terrible.

The other coaches listed I would take in a heart beat. Even dineen.

I mean, the best coach in the world might get sacco results, but there's a definite problem and he's part of it.
Responded to this in the Sacco thread just to continue the discussion there.

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04-18-2013, 07:26 AM
  #166
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Yeah, that was hilarious...

BTW, looking at this old thread that Bender posted, it is really funny to see that there was a few fans that didn't seem to mind Sacco getting an extension, certainly he didn't look like a complete idiot to a lot of folks back then.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1162033&page=7
Here's my last post from that thread:

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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
We're gonna laugh at this thread (and the one some dummy started at the beginning of the year..."FIRE SACCO") in a few years when Sacco leads this team to a Stanley Cup win.
It was obviously sarcastic -- the "dummy" I referred to that started a FIRE SACCO thread was yours truly. I remember catching flak for it, too.

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04-18-2013, 09:23 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Avs For Life View Post
I missed that poll...however it is pure gold
The OP even came here to say how much he hates us all for ruining his poll.

Came twice, actually.

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04-18-2013, 09:36 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
Yeah, that was hilarious...

BTW, looking at this old thread that Bender posted, it is really funny to see that there was a few fans that didn't seem to mind Sacco getting an extension, certainly he didn't look like a complete idiot to a lot of folks back then.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1162033&page=7
I'd forgotten that some people around here actually defended this guy. Good thing I have dodged the bullet of being one of them.

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04-18-2013, 10:19 AM
  #169
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I'd forgotten that some people around here actually defended this guy. Good thing I have dodged the bullet of being one of them.
It is pretty funny to be honest . But I don't remember why I was hung over .

But you can clearly see that it is the same people having the same opinion on our personnel. The same guys bashing Sherman/Lacroix hard right now were the guys who were the most upset with the extension. The guys who are defending them now are the same guys who were defending Sacco.
Conclusion? It is all about the stance you have regarding the organisation. Does not really matter about whom we bicker

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04-18-2013, 10:29 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
The OP even came here to say how much he hates us all for ruining his poll.

Came twice, actually.
The OP resides here normally, and does indeed still hate you all for ruining the poll.

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04-18-2013, 10:37 AM
  #171
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I'd forgotten that some people around here actually defended this guy. Good thing I have dodged the bullet of being one of them.
Some of the players defend Sacco harder than any poster here. No doubt this will be interpreted as them only trying to be nice, because it doesn't fit with the forum mantra that Sacco is terrible at everything and if we only get rid of him our problems are over.

Giguere: "It has nothing to do with the coaches. The system is there. It's a good system. It's the same system as we played last year, when we had some success. When we decide to be all on the same page and play within the rules of our team, we're a successful team, especially with the talent that we have."

Ryan O'Reilly: "We're well prepared. They're doing an excellent job. It's just what's going on on the ice. We have to look at ourselves first."

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04-18-2013, 10:45 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Some of the players defend Sacco harder than any poster here. No doubt this will be interpreted as them only trying to be nice, because it doesn't fit with the forum mantra that Sacco is terrible at everything and if we only get rid of him our problems are over.

Giguere: "It has nothing to do with the coaches. The system is there. It's a good system. It's the same system as we played last year, when we had some success. When we decide to be all on the same page and play within the rules of our team, we're a successful team, especially with the talent that we have."

Ryan O'Reilly: "We're well prepared. They're doing an excellent job. It's just what's going on on the ice. We have to look at ourselves first."
I take it that the players don't actually mind Sacco, and that Sacco is the proverbial player's coach. Sometimes you need to hate your coach to be successful.

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04-18-2013, 10:51 AM
  #173
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No doubt change is needed, since the results aren't there. But as much as this forum love to put it all on the coach even the players tell us that a lot of it is on the players.

Hell, look at the last four games after being called out. Suddenly the system looks a hell of a lot better with opposition scoring chances being significantly reduced.

But you can't play the public embarrassment card more than once or twice, so it's too late for Sacco. The team didn't to well enough with him or for him. There has to be some roster changes too, to give the new coach something better to work with.

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04-18-2013, 10:53 AM
  #174
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Some Red Wing fans hate Babcock now. The complaint is pretty much the same we have for Sacco.

Some of the things Wings fans complain about how Babcock puts wrong players on the ice at wrong time. Using forwards on PP etc etc...

Sounds about the same we the Avs fans complain about Sacco.

Edit: Also Wings don't really play the same puck possession game anymore, they use more of dump and chase now.

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04-18-2013, 11:10 AM
  #175
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That's because the red wings aren't a very good team.

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