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Garrioch: Ken King Moving On

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Old
04-17-2013, 03:46 PM
  #51
Anglesmith
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Very true. Doesn't mean he should stay though.

You can say similar things about Sutter when he arrived as coach, and slowly things went downhill. Kind of how I feel about King at this point.
As far as I can remember (and I admit my memory is hazy), Sutter coached us to the Finals, then to a division championship in the first post-lockout season, right? Things went downhill once he became GM and stopped coaching, didn't they?

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04-17-2013, 04:01 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Very true. Doesn't mean he should stay though.

You can say similar things about Sutter when he arrived as coach, and slowly things went downhill. Kind of how I feel about King at this point.
So what has King done (in your mind) that caused the team to go downhill enough that he should be fired?

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04-17-2013, 04:29 PM
  #53
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So what has King done (in your mind) that caused the team to go downhill enough that he should be fired?
Exactly, King's responsibility is about running an efficient and profitable organization. In the last decade he has done this and turned the franchise from one threatening to leave the city to one of the more profitable teams in the league. His role has become every more important to the owners as this Franchise looks to head into another 7 year playoff drought. As long as he keeps the team in the profits during this upcoming drought, he will keep his job. Especially now that the rebuild is official, attendance, jersey sales and TV value is going to drop severely. Yes, I know a lot of us are excited to watch rookies play and develop on the team but for the casual fan (who make up the vast majority of the fan base) they won't care. Not very many people will want to watch the Flames lose, or follow the development and progress of our rookies. Calgary has grown, and the dollar is stronger than our last drought it doesn't mean the team wont suffer. We need a guy like King with his experience running this franchise and keeping the team in the profits.

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04-17-2013, 05:22 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
So what has King done (in your mind) that caused the team to go downhill enough that he should be fired?
Its all speculation, we don't know what goes on in the ownership meetings. So I can't really say but this team was allowed to stagnate for far too long, be it because of ownership, to management to the team itself. Everyone involved in that process should be held accountable.

Im not saying King should be fired. I am saying I won't be sad if he moves on.

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04-17-2013, 05:42 PM
  #55
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If they bring in a hockey guy, that'd be pretty cool. King is a ridiculously strong businessman, and should be in the true business of the Calgary Flames. However, from a hockey point it'd be nice to have guys ranging from President all the way down to coach that are all hockey guys.

Right now, King and Feaster aren't really hockey guys. Feaster is never going to spot something special in a prospect, nor will he get a steal in the draft, and of course he'll never manage a deal that will rock peoples socks off.

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Old
04-17-2013, 06:45 PM
  #56
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If Burke comes here as President he will be GM as well no way he doesn't want the GM job.



This is a good point, Burke had a bad move in Kessel and yet he was given several years to prove himself I don't think it would be bad to show faith in Weisbrod and Feaster.
If you call a bad move acquiring a top 15 scorer in the league.

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04-17-2013, 06:48 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by iggyfan8 View Post
If you call a bad move acquiring a top 15 scorer in the league.
Lets be reality here for a second.

If you were building a team who would you take?

Kessel

or

Seguin, Hamilton, Knight

Pretty easy choice for most I think.

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04-17-2013, 06:51 PM
  #58
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Hamilton and Rielly would've been a disgusting pair

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04-17-2013, 06:53 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Lets be reality here for a second.

If you were building a team who would you take?

Kessel

or

Seguin, Hamilton, Knight

Pretty easy choice for most I think.
I would take Seguin over Kessel any day

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04-17-2013, 07:00 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Lets be reality here for a second.

If you were building a team who would you take?

Kessel

or

Seguin, Hamilton, Knight

Pretty easy choice for most I think.
I agree he lost the trade but if that was his worst deal I think he did a pretty good job

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04-17-2013, 07:02 PM
  #61
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but then again he got lupul and gardiner for beauchemin( playing like a champ this year)

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04-17-2013, 07:07 PM
  #62
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I agree he lost the trade but if that was his worst deal I think he did a pretty good job
what deal has feaster made that was that bad?

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04-17-2013, 08:06 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Lets be reality here for a second.

If you were building a team who would you take?

Kessel

or

Seguin, Hamilton, Knight

Pretty easy choice for most I think.
except the trade wasn't that. draft picks are unknowns, especially when dealt before the season. Burke expected the Leafs to be a borderline playoff team and I think many people did. Very few people other than the typical Leafs haters would have guessed they would be a bottom 2 team that season.

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04-17-2013, 08:56 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
except the trade wasn't that. draft picks are unknowns, especially when dealt before the season. Burke expected the Leafs to be a borderline playoff team and I think many people did. Very few people other than the typical Leafs haters would have guessed they would be a bottom 2 team that season.
I agree with InfiniteIggy. That trade was the deal. Too many people wait to hate on GMs because you never know if that 7th rounder is the next Gretzky. Or maybe a projected 29 year old AHLer still could be a top line forward. So your arguing - now that we're 3 years after the fact - the deal was reasonable at the time because nobody could've known how the picks panned out?

So we can't argue either way. No matter what, a trade doesn't have a winner or loser?!

Burke screwed up and jerked his knee, we now know that. So what?


Last edited by MarkGio: 04-17-2013 at 09:25 PM.
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04-17-2013, 09:12 PM
  #65
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One thing to remember - before King arrived here, this organization was in shambles - both the business and hockey aspects of the team. (The Flames nearly moved to Oklahoma City for crying out loud.

While he's not done much to help (or hurt) the hockey side, he's completely turned around the business side of the organization. (yes, a stronger dollar has helped)

If King is leaving, it is because he wants to leave. Or it's because he's getting a promotion as I mentioned earlier.


Or it's just Garrioch telling stories again.
I think its unfair to commend King for Calgary's rescue completely. I believe Edwards coming on board, a strong Canadian dollar, a Stanley Cup final appearance, and a booming Alberta economy played a role. I would even go as far as argue it wouldn't have taken much in those conditions to turn things around.

I'm a firm believer or responsibility and accountability of the leaders first. As a manager, I either let **** happen, or I do something about it if I can. And I'll flat out tell my owner/superior that it was my fault for not having the foresight, ignoring the symptoms, or gave someone responsibility where they obviously were not ready.

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04-17-2013, 09:13 PM
  #66
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Give me a break the leaf roster was pathetic that year burke was the only one who thought the leafs would fighting for a playoff spot. The whole city thought the trade was stupid at the time, fan590 constantly had call ins about how stupid it was for non playoff team to trade away potential top ten picks. The fact one was a lottery pick was a surprise to no one.

Lupul was just luck. He was a cap dump in that deal. Not one person expected him to be a ppg player.

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04-17-2013, 11:33 PM
  #67
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I agree with InfiniteIggy. That trade was the deal. Too many people wait to hate on GMs because you never know if that 7th rounder is the next Gretzky. Or maybe a projected 29 year old AHLer still could be a top line forward. So your arguing - now that we're 3 years after the fact - the deal was reasonable at the time because nobody could've known how the picks panned out?

So we can't argue either way. No matter what, a trade doesn't have a winner or loser?!

Burke screwed up and jerked his knee, we now know that. So what?
They landed an elite goal scorer for draft picks. It's really that simple. You can't look at a deal after the fact and trash the GM because the picks turned out to be better than expected.

People act like Burke traded 2 top 10 picks for Kessel. While technically that is what ended up happening that is not how the trade went down at the time. When the trade happened no one knew where those picks would end up.

It would be no different if the Blues missed the playoffs this year, and bombed next year and ended up giving up a top 5 pick in the Bouwmeester deal. Sometimes trades turn out badly and it's just something that happens.

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04-18-2013, 09:36 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
They landed an elite goal scorer for draft picks. It's really that simple. You can't look at a deal after the fact and trash the GM because the picks turned out to be better than expected.

People act like Burke traded 2 top 10 picks for Kessel. While technically that is what ended up happening that is not how the trade went down at the time. When the trade happened no one knew where those picks would end up.

It would be no different if the Blues missed the playoffs this year, and bombed next year and ended up giving up a top 5 pick in the Bouwmeester deal. Sometimes trades turn out badly and it's just something that happens.
At the time kessel was a 30 goal scorer once in his career. Not an elite goalscorer. Not worth two firsts. Never was. Stop kidding yourself.

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04-18-2013, 09:40 AM
  #69
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At the time kessel was a 30 goal scorer once in his career. Not an elite goalscorer. Not worth two firsts. Never was. Stop kidding yourself.
He was worth 2 firsts because the Leafs were going to give him an offer sheet if the Bruins didn't trade him. That isn't something that can be ignored.

Not to mention his "1 30 goal season" was when he was what 21 or 22? His production had gone up significantly in each of his 3 seasons up until that point in time. Everyone knew he was going to be a regular 30+ goal scorer for a long time. Don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise.

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04-18-2013, 10:36 AM
  #70
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Hamilton and Rielly would've been a disgusting pair
Just like at the WJC's, surefire gold medal with those two on the backend.

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04-18-2013, 10:50 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
He was worth 2 firsts because the Leafs were going to give him an offer sheet if the Bruins didn't trade him. That isn't something that can be ignored.

Not to mention his "1 30 goal season" was when he was what 21 or 22? His production had gone up significantly in each of his 3 seasons up until that point in time. Everyone knew he was going to be a regular 30+ goal scorer for a long time. Don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise.
Everyone knew he was a one dimensional sniper. With health concerns. An elite goal scorer whos best season is 37goals.

And his goal production dropped after joining the leafs from 36 with bruins to 30 and 32 goals his first two years in toronto. Dont see how thats improving each year.

Dont kid yourself, acquiring kessel was a mistake from day one. Just because the leafs wanted to offer sheet him didnt make the value of kessel change. They overpaid and blew their rebuild.

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04-18-2013, 11:21 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
Everyone knew he was a one dimensional sniper. With health concerns. An elite goal scorer whos best season is 37goals.

And his goal production dropped after joining the leafs from 36 with bruins to 30 and 32 goals his first two years in toronto. Dont see how thats improving each year.

Dont kid yourself, acquiring kessel was a mistake from day one. Just because the leafs wanted to offer sheet him didnt make the value of kessel change. They overpaid and blew their rebuild.
The bias in your posts is nothing short of hilarious.

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Old
04-18-2013, 12:29 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
except the trade wasn't that. draft picks are unknowns, especially when dealt before the season. Burke expected the Leafs to be a borderline playoff team and I think many people did. Very few people other than the typical Leafs haters would have guessed they would be a bottom 2 team that season.
Yes it really was.

Loving the revisionist history. It was obvious to anyone with eyes that the Leafs still were not a playoff team, but a top 2 pick, I guess not.

A trade is evaluated on who got the better players 5 years later. Boston did easily. Burke gambled and lost, it was a horrible trade both at the time, and currently.

Also based on your logic, you would of not been mad if we offer sheeted (and Avs didn't match) O'Rielly and our pick ended up 1st overall? After all, how could Feaster have known right?


Last edited by InfinityIggy: 04-18-2013 at 12:35 PM.
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Old
04-18-2013, 01:40 PM
  #74
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The bias in your posts is nothing short of hilarious.
Where was the bias? He said kessels improved his numbers every year. He hasnt. He didnt match his boston career high til his third year in toronto.

It was a bad move. Even before the picks became seguin, hamilton and knight.

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