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Malkin for Kopitar/Voynov/1st 2013

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04-18-2013, 02:35 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Salary aside, I think 30 out of 30 GMs would take Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk or Bouwmeester over Voynov if they had the choice.
I think Voynov is on par with Shattenkirk, and Bouwmeester. He is just impressive in all zones. His defense is actually really underrated. Not just a puck rusher.

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04-18-2013, 02:35 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
actually just 29 out of 30.
And there is a reason why these 29 don't have a cup ring
Voynov is a good defenseman who is blossoming into a very nice one.... but he's not Bobby Orr and you're overreacting. 90 days of rock solid play doesn't mean Slava Voynov leapfrogs over Alex Pietrangelo, Kevin Shattenkirk and Jay Bouwmeester in terms of defensemen rankings. Next you're gonna say Voynov is better than Weber, Subban, Karlsson, Keith, Chara, Letang, Suter and Ekman-Larsson too?

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04-18-2013, 02:37 PM
  #178
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Voynov is not the difference between Malkin and Kopitar. No thank you. That kid is a beauty.

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04-18-2013, 02:42 PM
  #179
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Oh man I was so afraid to enter this thread because I was sure it was going to be full of Malkin is one of the best players in the league and Kopitar and Voynov + in comparison is junk! Malkin is awesome, no doubt. Love to him have. But under the terms of the OP proposal, even if the LA did have their first rounder, how does it make the Kings closer to a Cup? I don't concern myself from the Pittsburgh perspective because I'm not a fan of that team. From purely a Kings perspective, it moves the Kings farther away from their objective, not an over the top favorite.

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04-18-2013, 02:44 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Salary aside, I think 30 out of 30 GMs would take Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk or Bouwmeester over Voynov if they had the choice.
Agree on Pietrangelo, the other two can take a backseat behind Voynov. And NHL13 GMs do not count

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Old
04-18-2013, 02:44 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Voynov is a good defenseman who is blossoming into a very nice one.... but he's not Bobby Orr and you're overreacting. 90 days of rock solid play doesn't mean Slava Voynov leapfrogs over Alex Pietrangelo, Kevin Shattenkirk and Jay Bouwmeester in terms of defensemen rankings. Next you're gonna say Voynov is better than Weber, Subban, Karlsson, Keith, Chara, Letang, Suter and Ekman-Larsson too?
Easy Gus, nobody said Voynov is better than those guys. All 3 of the blues D are overrated and Voynov is underrated so....

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04-18-2013, 02:52 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by cyclones22 View Post
Oh man I was so afraid to enter this thread because I was sure it was going to be full of Malkin is one of the best players in the league and Kopitar and Voynov + in comparison is junk! Malkin is awesome, no doubt. Love to him have. But under the terms of the OP proposal, even if the LA did have their first rounder, how does it make the Kings closer to a Cup? I don't concern myself from the Pittsburgh perspective because I'm not a fan of that team. From purely a Kings perspective, it moves the Kings farther away from their objective, not an over the top favorite.
Just to get u up to speed, the original OP proposal was:

To LA:
Malkin

To Pittsburgh:
Kopitar
Voynov
1st 2013
1st 2014

LA said.... &*^& off

Now I think it became if Voynov is better than some of the blues defensmen or Bobby Orr.

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04-18-2013, 03:08 PM
  #183
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I think Darryl Sutter said it best when he said that Kopitar would easily be a 90-100 point player if he cheated (stayed in the offensive zone longer, took risks), but he doesn't. He plays 200 feet of the ice and is one of the best at doing it, all while consistently putting up numbers that are just under a point per game. He's easily a top 10 center in this league. With that said, Malkin is a great offensive talent. His skill level is almost unmatched. The only issue is that he's nowhere near as good as Kopitar defensively. I've watched a lot of Pittsburgh games where Malkin seems to just loft around on the ice instead of going after the puck, and back checking. I know that I'm speaking with a little bit of homerism because the Kings are my team, but I would find it very hard to let Malkin go for Kopitar straight up. He fits and works in our system so well, and his chemistry, although it took a long time, has finally come together with Brown and Williams as his wingers. On top of that you want Voynov and some draft picks? I would imagine that Dean would laugh and hang up if Shero called and offered that. Voynov is probably better than any defenseman on the Penguins not named Letang or Martin, and he's still getting better.

Anyways, I think the main point that I'm getting at here is that Malkin is better than Kopitar overall, but not by much. I think that the intangibles, work ethic, defensive play, commitment to the Kings, and the fact that he fits in with our system so well is more than enough for the Kings to say no, even if it were straight up. I also don't think that Malkin would score over 100 points playing for LA, but that's just me.

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04-18-2013, 03:12 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Mats26 View Post
Easy Gus, nobody said Voynov is better than those guys. All 3 of the blues D are overrated and Voynov is underrated so....
How are those 3 Blues D overrated exactly? And how is Voynov underrated? Based on what? Voynov has been a very nice NHL defenseman since the end of January, 2013. Before then, he was average-to-good. What the future holds, nobody knows. All 3 of the Blues D are better now and have a multiple year track record. I'm not trashing Voynov, I think he's a real nice player, but those 3 D on the Blues are a few of the better D in the league, especially Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk at this point. Bouwmeester is a minute muncher, great skater and has a nice stick but he is a little soft for my liking. That said, if I had to play a game 7 and my life depended on it, I would rather have Bouwmeester in my lineup than Voynov.... at lease right now. Talk to me in a year or two and I could feel differently.

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04-18-2013, 03:14 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Salary aside, I think 30 out of 30 GMs would take Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk or Bouwmeester over Voynov if they had the choice.
Pietrangelo, absolutely. Shattenkirk and especially Bouwmeester, nope

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Old
04-18-2013, 03:21 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
Pietrangelo, absolutely. Shattenkirk and especially Bouwmeester, nope
Voynov overall better than Shattenkirk?? Since when? Come on now.

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Old
04-18-2013, 03:24 PM
  #187
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Malkin is drool worthy in terms of being a potential addition to any team, but he's also a bit of a disaster when he alternates between big years and terrible years.

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04-18-2013, 03:26 PM
  #188
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Some people should realize that durability does matter. Kopitar is also much better defensively and that trade makes no sense for the Kings. Overall Malkin is a better player, but it doesn't matter when he misses half the season every year.

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04-18-2013, 03:27 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
No, we don't. He's a very talented young defenseman, but he's a luxury we don't need with Letang and Martin carrying their pairings, especially at the expense of the reigning MVP and scoring champ.



Not by performance, which is the only thing we care about. Martin has been exceptional this season, Voynov's due for a big raise in FA this off-season, and we have no shortage of cheap, capable defense prospects with good potential knocking on the door.

We are more than able to retain Malkin and manage the cap without compromising our defense, but thanks for your concern.
Lolwut? Show me where I said anything about the deal that the OP proposed.

I simply responded to the claim that the Pens have no, as in absolutely no need for a guy like Voynov. You are simply out of you mind if you believe that. A responsible defenseman that puts up big points and is less than 100 games into his career.

LA is at the top of the league in G/A and G/G, and I would bet money that they would welcome another guy like him. At the expense of Kopitar? No, but that wasn't what my original statement was in regards to. It was highlighting the asinine comment that the Pens have no use for him.

And thanks for your concern, but I couldn't care less about your team or if you think Martin (who's 32 btw) makes a guy like Voynov (22) worthless to you.

First Voynov was a throw in...now he is just a luxury.

Couldn't care less either way. Just some of these comments are hilarious.

Kopitar=Malkin
Voynov=Malkin
Voynov=Throw in

People need to watch more hockey.

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04-18-2013, 03:36 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Malkin is drool worthy in terms of being a potential addition to any team, but he's also a bit of a disaster when he alternates between big years and terrible years.
Even Malkin's "terrible years" are right around a ppg generally, with the exception of one year where he missed a ton of time and even when he played he wasn't 100%. He was still at almost a ppg. Malkin's slumps get really exaggerated. A slumping Malkin is still better than almost every other player in the league. Even this year when he hasn't looked like himself and has been playing with a nagging shoulder injury he's just over a ppg. He's far from a disaster...ever.

It's all moot anyway, because clearly neither side would be interested in this deal.

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04-18-2013, 03:42 PM
  #191
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I'm not looking for the best players, Craig, I'm looking for the right ones - Herb Brooks.

The Kings went through the injury thing with Alison, Palffy and Deadmarsh. Talent is great, but it's only effective if you're playing and even if Kopitar isn't scoring, he's still playing great D and contributing at both ends. I would much rather have Kopitar because there is a lot to be said about consistency and the ability to count on someone from game to game.

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04-18-2013, 03:44 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
I'm not looking for the best players, Craig, I'm looking for the right ones - Herb Brooks.
That is true. Which is why players like Kopitar, Toews and Giroux are practically untouchable and worth so much more than most fans think.

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04-18-2013, 03:52 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Voynov overall better than Shattenkirk?? Since when? Come on now.
Since the day he entered the league, by a reach really. And Jaybo isn't in the same league as Shattenkirk so I would say that Voynov is easily the better of the two.

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04-18-2013, 04:07 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by bambamcam4ever View Post
Malkin would probably score 110 on the Kings if he was healthy. Kopitar wouldn't be a hundred point player under any system.

I can't agree with this comment at all. Malkin would not be a 100 point player in la Playing on a Defensive first system would lower his points thinking other wise is wrong. Ds would tired of his poor defensive plays an sit malkin. It would be hard to score from the bench. Hes done it to dd mr dp and serveral others If you dont play in a way he likes u will give u less ice time or not play you at all. Also with malkins injury prone body He will be hurt alot due to the more phyiscally tight checking in the western conference.

Kopitar on the other hand will be able to cheat more to the offensive side since pittsburgh plays a more offensive system. He will also be able to step into the offensive situation that malkin had and produce at a close pace. I think he would end up close to 100 upper 90s easy.


I ve noticed that first propsal has dropped the 2 1sts your alot closer now. I still wouldnt do it slava is just to much to loose for a slight upgrade in the offense but its no longer a outragous overpayment.

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Old
04-18-2013, 04:08 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
How are those 3 Blues D overrated exactly? And how is Voynov underrated? Based on what? Voynov has been a very nice NHL defenseman since the end of January, 2013. Before then, he was average-to-good. What the future holds, nobody knows. All 3 of the Blues D are better now and have a multiple year track record. I'm not trashing Voynov, I think he's a real nice player, but those 3 D on the Blues are a few of the better D in the league, especially Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk at this point. Bouwmeester is a minute muncher, great skater and has a nice stick but he is a little soft for my liking. That said, if I had to play a game 7 and my life depended on it, I would rather have Bouwmeester in my lineup than Voynov.... at lease right now. Talk to me in a year or two and I could feel differently.
Voynov has been an above average dman since he got called up last year and got better as the year went on. This year hes gotten even better.

What has Bouwmeester ever done in the playoffs? Oh wait a minute thats right, nothing.

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04-18-2013, 04:09 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
How are those 3 Blues D overrated exactly? And how is Voynov underrated? Based on what? Voynov has been a very nice NHL defenseman since the end of January, 2013. Before then, he was average-to-good. What the future holds, nobody knows. All 3 of the Blues D are better now and have a multiple year track record. I'm not trashing Voynov, I think he's a real nice player, but those 3 D on the Blues are a few of the better D in the league, especially Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk at this point. Bouwmeester is a minute muncher, great skater and has a nice stick but he is a little soft for my liking. That said, if I had to play a game 7 and my life depended on it, I would rather have Bouwmeester in my lineup than Voynov.... at lease right now. Talk to me in a year or two and I could feel differently.
Voynov has been good for a lot longer than you are giving him credit for. Remember it was how good Voynov is that allowed for the team to trade Johnson. I am not going to get in on the debate on who is a better but just wanted to point out that the Jan 2013 is not accurate.

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04-18-2013, 04:11 PM
  #197
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Easy Gus, nobody said Voynov is better than those guys. All 3 of the blues D are overrated and Voynov is underrated so....
I thnk JayBo is underated on these boards. His salary is too high yes, but he is underated.

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04-18-2013, 04:12 PM
  #198
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Let me try to figure this out. The Kings won the Cup without Malkin and did just fine with Kopitar as their go-to-guy at center, so a year later they're going to trade for a more expensive, injury prone center who earns significantly more, and will also give up one of their top two defenseman?

Why do I have the feeling that the OP didn't really think things through here? How would this benefit the Kings? They don't need to upgrade Kopitar for Malkin, and the price isn't worth it. The Kings need an upgrade on wing, and that's just about it. The team is well positioned to contend for another Stanley Cup down the road with the core they have now. It's nonsensical for them to tinker heavily with the core that took them all the way to the Cup.

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04-18-2013, 04:18 PM
  #199
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Why do I have the feeling that the OP didn't really think things through here?
just a Habs fans trying to get Geno out of the conference.

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04-18-2013, 05:34 PM
  #200
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I'd love to have Malkin on the Kings... unfortunately it just doesnt work for so many reasons, including salary cap issues, not to mention we'd be creating a huge hole defensively.

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