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Playoffs or No playoffs (mod can make poll?)(sure)

View Poll Results: Should we make it or should we go?
Yes, I want the Wings in the playoffs 62 72.94%
No, I don't want the Wings in the playoffs 23 27.06%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-18-2013, 12:03 PM
  #26
Fugu
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Nah, if Holland had made a few correct moves this year we could be right in the thick of things to make the playoffs.

Today's NHL requires a New England Patriots style of management, get talent while they're young and use them until they're too expensive, then move on. Identify your core and pay them while supplying the team with enough depth to continue contending. Pittsburgh isn't the best example because they had to be horrible to get Crosby and Malkin, but since getting them Shero has find ways to continually bring in more talent that works (Dupuis, Kunitz, Neal, Iginla).
It's funny you mention that Patriot's system, because Holland himself talked the talk back when the cap era started. Then he failed in the implementation stage, which also happened to coincide with the point when Bowman left for Chicago. I think the latter was needed to push Holland towards a more aggressive, emotionally detached stance instead of super conservative stance he's taken.


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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Yeah but the Wings core is too old to contend. It's easy to build around 25 year old players who are the best players on the planet. If holland wasnt incompetent and did one thing right, I still don't see this team contending.

Today's CBA doesn't allow teams to rebuild on the fly. You are either good or bad. Being stuck in the middle gets you nowhere.


Time to gut the foundation and hope the Wings don't turn into Edmonton.

I think we may still get to the point where today's CBA actually pulls everyone towards mediocrity. The last one had more holes in it than Swiss cheese. Between the multiple ways to circumvent the cap and having a cap ceiling growing in double digits, teams could really tweak spending to avoid the parity-driven mediocrity.

That said, it will take a couple years for this new CBA to sink its teeth into the league and how to build teams. I never have looked forward to this, regardless, as I'm not really inspired by hockey where teams just grind it out against each other. The ones who did happen to win a lottery during a year a franchise player comes along may be the only ones with any clear advantage.

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Old
04-18-2013, 12:40 PM
  #27
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What a silly post.
Thanks for the feedback, Capt.

And we're talking about Ken Holland. Yes, it is an unrealistic idea.

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04-18-2013, 12:42 PM
  #28
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It's not a question of if you want them in the playoffs, it's a question of if they deserve to be in the playoffs.

The answer to that question is an outstanding no

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04-18-2013, 12:50 PM
  #29
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And we're talking about Ken Holland. Yes, it is an unrealistic idea.
Missing would be a bigger wake up call to Kenny than to any other team. He's made the playoffs his entire tenure as GM. Believe it or not, at one point this guy was a realgud GM (shocking to some I know). He's not a complete dope. It would probably make him less trigger shy on the trades, and more aggressive in free agency.

On the other hand, making it in as the 8th seed with most man games lost will re-enforce the idea that he's making the right roster moves.

I'd like to make the playoffs obviously, but I'm not gonna be bummed out if we miss.

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04-18-2013, 12:50 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDrake View Post
It's not a question of if you want them in the playoffs, it's a question of if they deserve to be in the playoffs.

The answer to that question is an outstanding no
If you get more points than 9th place and below you deserve to be in the playoffs.

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Old
04-18-2013, 01:03 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Its way less embarrassing to get destroyed by Chicago in four maybe five games?

The playoff streak is worthless if you aren't contending.

Today's NHL requires tanking/high draft picks to turn into a contender.
Just a hypothetical but what looks better over all. Not saying this will happened but who knows.

Wings miss the playoffs and go on to be contenders for the next 5 + years.

Wings make the playoffs but get swept in the first round then go on to being contenders for the next 5 + years. Meaning the Playoff streak is extended to 30 years instead of 8-9.

I just don't understand why anybody would want it to end. Not making the playoffs you have zero percent chance of winning. Making it at least you have a chance. Could be slim but a chance.

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Old
04-18-2013, 01:13 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by probertrules24 View Post
Just a hypothetical but what looks better over all. Not saying this will happened but who knows.

Wings miss the playoffs and go on to be contenders for the next 5 + years.

Wings make the playoffs but get swept in the first round then go on to being contenders for the next 5 + years. Meaning the Playoff streak is extended to 30 years instead of 8-9.

I just don't understand why anybody would want it to end. Not making the playoffs you have zero percent chance of winning. Making it at least you have a chance. Could be slim but a chance.
I think the idea is that we need a traditional rebuild to get back to the top. That would include a high pick. It's pretty unrealistic to think we're not going to miss at some point in the next few years, if not this year. The idea is that the sooner we take that route, the faster we're on top.

I'm still skeptical that a rebuild on the fly can actually be done from where this team sits right now. Boston is a rare case. It would take some really special drafting to fill this roster to contending status with late picks. Free agency is the alternative, but it can't be relied on as our only option.

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04-18-2013, 01:16 PM
  #33
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I want them to make it regardless, but consider this folks, making it means that lovely brand of Columbus hockey will have one less representative in the playoffs.

Every hockey fan should be hoping the Wings make it, just like every hockey fan should have wished upon a star for Philly to win the Stanley Cup last year instead of LA, well, unless you like to watch a game where the winning team played like they were on the PK for a whole 60 minutes.

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04-18-2013, 01:19 PM
  #34
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My heart says playoffs, but there are things that desperately need changing around here, and I fear that may only come if we miss the playoffs. Missing the playoffs this year may be best for the long term interest of our franchise, no matter how frustrating it may be.

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04-18-2013, 01:22 PM
  #35
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C'mon guys, we know that Edmonton is going to get the top pick.

But seriously, pinning our future hopes on ONE pick from ONE lost playoff berth is ridiculous. This team has talent and it's been mismanaged - we need smarter executive moves, not new blood.

Once we get Tatar and Nyquist permanent roster spots without all the dead weight, we can actually start cycling Sheahan, Jurco, Jarnkrok, Sproul, etc. in and get our bottom six situation straightened out for good. Line combinations that don't totally blow chunks would be ideal, as well.

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Old
04-18-2013, 01:26 PM
  #36
WingedWheel1987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by probertrules24 View Post
Just a hypothetical but what looks better over all. Not saying this will happened but who knows.

Wings miss the playoffs and go on to be contenders for the next 5 + years.

Wings make the playoffs but get swept in the first round then go on to being contenders for the next 5 + years. Meaning the Playoff streak is extended to 30 years instead of 8-9.

I just don't understand why anybody would want it to end. Not making the playoffs you have zero percent chance of winning. Making it at least you have a chance. Could be slim but a chance.
I will take the 1% chance the Wings land Seth Jones, over a playoff streak where 50% of the teams in the league make the playoffs.

This team is terrible. It won't luck it's way into a Stanley Cup with it's current roster. The Wings can luck their way into landing Seth Jones.

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Old
04-18-2013, 01:28 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
C'mon guys, we know that Edmonton is going to get the top pick.

But seriously, pinning our future hopes on ONE pick from ONE lost playoff berth is ridiculous. This team has talent and it's been mismanaged - we need smarter executive moves, not new blood.

Once we get Tatar and Nyquist permanent roster spots without all the dead weight, we can actually start cycling Sheahan, Jurco, Jarnkrok, Sproul, etc. in and get our bottom six situation straightened out for good. Line combinations that don't totally blow chunks would be ideal, as well.
There will always be more washed up veterans Holland can sign so he can keep Jurco, Janrkrok in the AHL until they are 45 years old.

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Old
04-18-2013, 01:32 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
I will take the 1% chance the Wings land Seth Jones over a playoff streak where 50% of the teams in the league make the playoffs.

This team is terrible. It won't luck it's way into a Stanley Cup with it's current roster. The Wings can luck their way into landing Seth Jones.
I think it comes to differing opinions on whats important to each of us. Which is cool.

Seth would be great but missing the playoffs and missing out on a lottery pick would be even worse. If you could tell me we land an elite player guaranteed I"m right with you.

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Old
04-18-2013, 01:35 PM
  #39
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I'm not totally sure how it pans out when it's all said and done, but if wings were to lose all games from here on and not get a point more than 47, that might be like a 12th overall pick?

And if they win all the games from here on and then exit in the first round, that might be a 16th overall?

That's 4 positions, that could be a huge difference...

But it's hard to say for sure where wings could pick at earliest (if they don't win the lottery) and where they could pick at worst (assuming they exit in the first round, which is more or less a given, if they do make the Playoffs)

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Old
04-18-2013, 01:38 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by probertrules24 View Post
I think it comes to differing opinions on whats important to each of us. Which is cool.

Seth would be great but missing the playoffs and missing out on a lottery pick would be even worse. If you could tell me we land an elite player guaranteed I"m right with you.
Yeah we definitely don't share the same opinion on this.

hypothetical scenario

I would rather the Wings got the 18th pick and not make the playoffs, as opposed to the Wings making the playoffs, losing in the first round and getting the 19th pick in the draft.

I don't see any value in making the playoffs and losing in the first round even if it extends the playoff streak.

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Old
04-18-2013, 01:47 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by smurfyeah19 View Post
This is Detroit. Anyone who wants us to miss needs to turn in their Wings gear immediately, because I want and we all should want this team in the postseason. It would be quite an embarrassment for the streak to end like this
Frankly I am embarrassed enough at the fact so many so called fans are cheering for the Wings to tank so we can follow in the footsteps of the Pens and Hawks. [mod] Is this the new NHL? The league where fans cheer for their team to lose so that they can maybe win a lottery pick? I will pass thank you. Of course I want the Wings in the playoffs.


Last edited by Fugu: 04-18-2013 at 03:00 PM. Reason: ... generalized flame
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Old
04-18-2013, 01:50 PM
  #42
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We all want them to win, but the Wings have no realistic shot of moving on past the first round. Heck, they probably don't have an unrealistic shot of getting past the first round.

This Wings team could only manage to win three games in a row during the regular season. They give up far too many excellent scoring opportunities, their PP looks like it's being ran by Helen Keller and Ray Charles, their PK is unreliable and their 5v5 offense is abysmal.

I view it as putting the team out of it's misery. Five more games of Kyle Quincey and Justin Abedlkader isn't worth it.

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04-18-2013, 02:23 PM
  #43
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If you get more points than 9th place and below you deserve to be in the playoffs.
You know as well as anyone the Red Wings haven't done anything to earn a spot. If you can't put up more than one goal against Calgary (Franzen's goal doesn't count) and get a win when you absolutely must you don't deserve anything.

Come back next season with a stable, consistent roster and go from there.

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04-18-2013, 02:25 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
Clearly, you're dreaming if you think missing the playoffs by one point is going to bring that much change.
Sadly, I think you're right.

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04-18-2013, 02:27 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDrake View Post
You know as well as anyone the Red Wings haven't done anything to earn a spot. If you can't put up more than one goal against Calgary (Franzen's goal doesn't count) and get a win when you absolutely must you don't deserve anything.

Come back next season with a stable, consistent roster and go from there.
The requirement to make the playoffs or win the Stanley Cup is to accumulate enough points or win enough games to make it. If a team tries harder than any one else but still doesn't make the playoffs, they didn't deserve to be there. There's a reason teams have to earn playoff spots and they're just not given because of perception.

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04-18-2013, 02:52 PM
  #46
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If the 30 % who vote "no" had power over this team, we would be a perenial bottom-feeder. Thats a fact. Torres as a top6 player can assure you of that.

All we need is one good summer and this team will be top 10 league wide. Why the hell would you blow that up?

We have the high-end talent, leadership and goaltending to be a contender. Our young guys (tatar, Nyquist, Smith, Kindl, Dekeyser, Andersson) will be a little stronger and more mature; Trim some fat by letting our UFA's walk (keep brunner). Sign a gritty top-6 player (not named clarkson), and a physical defenceman who specializes in playing defence.

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Old
04-18-2013, 02:57 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Its way less embarrassing to get destroyed by Chicago in four maybe five games?

The playoff streak is worthless if you aren't contending.

Today's NHL requires tanking/high draft picks to turn into a contender.
Yes it is way less embarrassing because they made the postseason. If you don't think it's going to be an embarrassment to be the first team in 22 years to miss the playoffs then [mod]. These players have way too much pride to be okay with missing


Last edited by Fugu: 04-18-2013 at 04:06 PM. Reason: generalized flame
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04-18-2013, 02:58 PM
  #48
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You know as well as anyone the Red Wings haven't done anything to earn a spot. If you can't put up more than one goal against Calgary (Franzen's goal doesn't count) and get a win when you absolutely must you don't deserve anything.

Come back next season with a stable, consistent roster and go from there.
No credit to kipper hey? He made several highlight real save. Some times teams meet a hot goalie, thats life. But rather than give credit, where credit is due, you proclaim Detroit doesnt deserve anything?

If you want to descredit weak goals, do so both ways. Calgary scored 2 greasy goals, otherwise that game would have been in overtime and we would be 1 point(at worst) back of columbus with a game in hand.

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04-18-2013, 03:27 PM
  #49
WingedWheel1987
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Originally Posted by smurfyeah19 View Post
Yes it is way less embarrassing because they made the postseason. If you don't think it's going to be an embarrassment to be the first team in 22 years to miss the playoffs then you're misguided. These players have way too much pride to be okay with missing
They apparently don't have enough pride to beat an AHL roster last night.

You can tell some of the players on this roster are just mailing in their performances and expecting to be in the playoffs when it's all said and done.

Change is needed and more talent is needed. Losing in the first round will not provide any of that.

Not making the playoffs atleast gives you a chance to get a high draft pick. Wings have no chance of winning the cup if they sneak in as the 8th seed. The current makeup of this team has no future. You need to start building for the next generation.

Next year you play as many of your NHL ready prospects as possible and see what you got. I want a real youth movement, not a Samuelsson is injured movement so we have no choice but to play the kids movement. If Sammy and Bert weren't old and washed up, we would have never seen Tatar or Nyquist. Helm being injured was a blessing in disguise which allowed Anderson to be brought up. He hasn't been amazing, but I appreciate the fact that he works hard and has an upside.

Settling for losing in the first round is not Red Wings hockey. I know neither is not making the playoffs, but at least there is potentially a light at the end of the tunnel where you don't make the playoffs and it might be a top ten draft pick.

The playoff streak has turned into a weight around the Red Wings shoulders that management feels they need in order to justify their awful decision making.

You don't play for a playoff streak, you play for the Stanley Cup.

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04-18-2013, 03:30 PM
  #50
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I just want to see how they react to not being in the playoffs. At least it should be a wake up call.

Looking at the Wings' current trend (and past off season's), there's no reason to believe that "a good summer" or "a couple of good pick-ups" are going to turn this team back into a long-term contender.

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