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What's the deal with Ryan Ellis?

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Old
04-17-2013, 08:17 AM
  #26
PredsV82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
Re: Elis, he is most often compared to rafalski, or rather what rafalski became. Rafalski was damn near 26-27 when he finally was able to break in with NJ. He needed alot of seasoning and played 4-5 years overseas after college. I think we are too quick to judge development here.

one concern I have overall is the amount of youth on this team. Too young does not win. look at Edmonton. Does Rinne-Weber-Fisher-and the rest of the core have enough grit and resiliency to handle a lineup next year with 2-3 young dmen and 4-5 young young forwards-(pick, FF, beck, bourque?)
thats why I think this next year is going to be a "transition" year, unless poile trades for a couple of vets this summer

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04-17-2013, 08:27 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Phototropic View Post
I've been surprised in that Blum looks better to me on the PP than Ellis. Blum moves the puck quicker and has a very quick slapshot from the point. As talented as Ellis is offensively, he seems to have a lot of difficulty getting shots off and deciding to shoot instead of passing up opportunities.

I'd agree with those who would prefer to only keep one of the two.
I concur these two are close in profile as far as player type. Blum is a little bigger, a little stronger, but I think lower ceiling ultimately than Ellis, who has more creativity, better vision. Organization has to choose one and trade the other I think at some point near future.

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04-17-2013, 09:13 AM
  #28
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Looking at the bigger picture, are we really gonna' go through a couple years watching 3 of those kids "grow up"? Pick whoever you like of the 4 - I think you can make an argument for any, but 1 playing with KK and the other 2 as 3rd pair? Assuming Ellis has the best longer-term potential, how are we gonna' protect his minutes and get him through the tough matchups while we have 2 other kids growing up at the same time?

If other GMs feel the same way about Ellis, might not be a bad idea to see if we could move him for max value and just see how the other 3 shake out. There's always a Hannan/Cube type we can get as a serviceable 6/7 if Gill wants to go to a contender.

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04-18-2013, 03:18 PM
  #29
triggrman
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Be honest, how many of you guys would trade him right now for Franson?

I know I would.

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04-18-2013, 03:54 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Be honest, how many of you guys would trade him right now for Franson?

I know I would.
Haven't seen much of Cody lately, but from what I remember, HELL NO

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04-18-2013, 04:00 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Be honest, how many of you guys would trade him right now for Franson?

I know I would.
definitely

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Old
04-18-2013, 04:14 PM
  #32
triggrman
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Haven't seen much of Cody lately, but from what I remember, HELL NO
He's played very effectively this season for Toronto and has produce well on the powerplay, and is in the top 10 in scoring for a defenseman. He's still playing lower minutes at es but he's playing more physical now.

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04-19-2013, 07:48 AM
  #33
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I don't think Franson is much of an upgrade to anything we have.

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04-19-2013, 09:03 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Be honest, how many of you guys would trade him right now for Franson?

I know I would.
Co*y has had several years to get it together - and as noted, he really hasn't - he's pretty much gotten to the top of what most of us would have expected. Today, I think the expectations for Ellis are still quite a bit higher than where Co*y has peaked.

So, sure, if I needed someone to play right now, today, I take Blum over both, I take Co*y over Ellis. But swap them? - No way.

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04-19-2013, 09:45 AM
  #35
triggrman
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IMHO, Franson is better right now than both. He's better than Ellis defensively and offensively.

I'd still take him over either.

If Ellis reaches his potential, he'll be better but right now, Franson is doing what they're supposed to be doing.

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04-19-2013, 10:46 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
IMHO, Franson is better right now than both. He's better than Ellis defensively and offensively.

I'd still take him over either.

If Ellis reaches his potential, he'll be better but right now, Franson is doing what they're supposed to be doing.
This year, I agree. 3 years from now, I think Cody will be the worst of the trio.

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04-19-2013, 10:50 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Be honest, how many of you guys would trade him right now for Franson?

I know I would.
That's like asking which you would prefer between, say, Brandon Dubinsky versus Filip Forsberg. Yes, Dubi is scoring more, but he's not going to go much further than he already has. Forsberg has the whole world ahead of him.

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04-19-2013, 12:28 PM
  #38
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Does anyone think that since he's passing to Kessel, Kadri and van Riemsdyk instead of SK74 and Erat, that might have something to do with better numbers?

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04-19-2013, 03:22 PM
  #39
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Franson has always been good. Too bad our fan based tried to mold him into a crease clearing physical stay at home dman. He has and always will be an offensive dman. The kid will be better then Blum, he already is. It'll take a lot for Blum to catch up to Franson as of now.

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04-19-2013, 03:24 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlsg View Post
Does anyone think that since he's passing to Kessel, Kadri and van Riemsdyk instead of SK74 and Erat, that might have something to do with better numbers?
Brian Campbell put up better numbers on Florida then on Chicago. Quality of linemates isnt everything. Especially when you are a dman who mans the point on a PP and posses a deadly shot.

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04-19-2013, 10:03 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
That's like asking which you would prefer between, say, Brandon Dubinsky versus Filip Forsberg. Yes, Dubi is scoring more, but he's not going to go much further than he already has. Forsberg has the whole world ahead of him.
No, it's not. First there's only 2 years difference between Franson and Blum and 2 between Blum and Ellis. Not 10 years.


Next, Franson is in the top 10 in scoring now for defensemen and he's not hit his peak, has plenty of room to grow.

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04-22-2013, 07:35 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by CantbeatzPekka View Post
Brian Campbell put up better numbers on Florida then on Chicago. Quality of linemates isnt everything. Especially when you are a dman who mans the point on a PP and posses a deadly shot.
He has 4 goals this year. That's it. He has a quick wrist shot but that's about it. He's making his points by passing to the Leafs front line. Defensively he's mediocre at best.
What Brian Cambell has done really doesn't have much to do with the conversation.

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04-22-2013, 09:20 AM
  #43
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Franson was a classic case of people assuming that we had better when we didn't. With the trade where we had to give him up to get rid of Lombardi's contract, everyone on here said that it was ok since Blum was already better and Ellis was about to be better. Never assume.

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04-22-2013, 09:35 AM
  #44
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I dont care about his stats this shortened season. I still dont believe in another 5 years we will be looking back and bemoaning the fact that we dont have Cody Franson

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04-22-2013, 09:57 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
I dont care about his stats this shortened season. I still dont believe in another 5 years we will be looking back and bemoaning the fact that we dont have Cody Franson
FWIW I'm there already. I haven't seen anything that tells me he'll become better in the d-zone.

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04-22-2013, 12:33 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
No, it's not. First there's only 2 years difference between Franson and Blum and 2 between Blum and Ellis. Not 10 years.


Next, Franson is in the top 10 in scoring now for defensemen and he's not hit his peak, has plenty of room to grow.
He's still playing very selective 5-on-5 minutes (he's on the bottom pairing and will not be moving up - #4 in total ToI among defensemen and that only 'cause of injuries to guys like Gunnarsson, #6 in avg ToI per game) and is getting tons of power play time (he's in the top-5 in 5v4 ToI with Phaneuf, Kessel, Bozak, and JvR - #2 in ToI among defensemen by a huge margin). With that shot of his, of course he's going to have lots of points in a situation like that.

All that's happened is that his niche has been (re)discovered and he's not being asked to do anything outside of that. He's a specialist being told to do nothing other than his specialty.

Ellis doesn't have it nearly as good right now. So the comparison is rather unfair.

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