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** Official 2013 Fire Sacco Thread: Part Deux **

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04-15-2013, 05:44 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by danmcn12 View Post
So you think RoB is a potential Norris candidate then right?

Sick of people acting like it's Sacco holding guys back. It was Sacco holding back Gally, KQ, and Duchene last year right? Not the players. Sacco was fine as coach last year yet you all still moaned on HF Boards. He has lost the locker room now yeah, but what coach wouldn't with this crap team?
Are you CRAZY?!?! We are 2 players away from being a STANLEY CUP CONTENDER!!! Oh, and a coaching change too.

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04-15-2013, 07:29 PM
  #302
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Everyone needs to back off coach America. This great country wouldn't pick him if he wasn't the absolute best. It has nothing to do with him being the only candidate capable...

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04-15-2013, 07:37 PM
  #303
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Well, maybe Avs want him to scout some guys so we can try to get them. And then shove Sacco out the door. Thanks for the info Sacco. Enjoy your grievance package.

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04-18-2013, 01:37 AM
  #304
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Saccos system I don't mind. It's his lack of adaption on the fly, or totally making wack ball decisions on the fly that don't work. His minute distribution is questionable, but I mainly think it's his lack of adaptability game in and out that's Terrible.

The other coaches listed I would take in a heart beat. Even dineen.

I mean, the best coach in the world might get sacco results, but there's a definite problem and he's part of it.
See this is something I'm not sure why fans don't give him more flack for. I've mentioned it a few times about how it's uber aggressive sending in at least two forecheckers deep, and sometimes the third in the zone as well, and that it's not sustainable, but let me just elaborate a bit more.

It's basically designed to force turnovers, or force the defense to panic which will lead to bad passes or tunrnovers afterwards. Now this is great when it works, but it requires the forecheckers to be working 100% and have full energy. A young team might be able to get away with this energy wise, but they're also going to be making fundamental mistakes. An older team certainly can't keep up the pace required, but they'll be making less fundamental errors.

When it doesn't work, or when the players don't quite have their energy up, or have maybe a lapse in momentum, the Avs are very easy to play against. Teams move the puck quickly to each other, and have a wide open neutral zone to break in with. This is bad on it's own, but it puts tremendous amounts of pressure on the D (who are not very mobile in the Avs case) and leads to everyone scrambling to get in position and playing catchup with the puck carriers. This is just plain bad on many levels, and leads to goals against in many scenarios.

This is why the Avs can't hold leads, why they let teams back in games when they're ahead, and why when they're not quite on their game it snowballs in multiple goals against until the opposition sits back in the 3rd sitting on a lead.

The other problem with this is that it works the team so hard, it's no wonder this team fades towards the end of the season. They're gassed from constantly chasing the puck at full speed all year.

Not to mention a smart team will pick this system apart in the playoffs after closely examining it and exploiting it with quick, smart puck movement. It's also the reason Sacco has such an awful record against divisional opponent, and such a good one against the East, and in his first year where teams didn't know their style as well.

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04-18-2013, 09:52 AM
  #305
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See this is something I'm not sure why fans don't give him more flack for. I've mentioned it a few times about how it's uber aggressive sending in at least two forecheckers deep, and sometimes the third in the zone as well, and that it's not sustainable, but let me just elaborate a bit more.

It's basically designed to force turnovers, or force the defense to panic which will lead to bad passes or tunrnovers afterwards. Now this is great when it works, but it requires the forecheckers to be working 100% and have full energy. A young team might be able to get away with this energy wise, but they're also going to be making fundamental mistakes. An older team certainly can't keep up the pace required, but they'll be making less fundamental errors.

When it doesn't work, or when the players don't quite have their energy up, or have maybe a lapse in momentum, the Avs are very easy to play against. Teams move the puck quickly to each other, and have a wide open neutral zone to break in with. This is bad on it's own, but it puts tremendous amounts of pressure on the D (who are not very mobile in the Avs case) and leads to everyone scrambling to get in position and playing catchup with the puck carriers. This is just plain bad on many levels, and leads to goals against in many scenarios.

This is why the Avs can't hold leads, why they let teams back in games when they're ahead, and why when they're not quite on their game it snowballs in multiple goals against until the opposition sits back in the 3rd sitting on a lead.

The other problem with this is that it works the team so hard, it's no wonder this team fades towards the end of the season. They're gassed from constantly chasing the puck at full speed all year.

Not to mention a smart team will pick this system apart in the playoffs after closely examining it and exploiting it with quick, smart puck movement. It's also the reason Sacco has such an awful record against divisional opponent, and such a good one against the East, and in his first year where teams didn't know their style as well.
I should have phrased it differently. I don't like his system and strategy. But to me that's a small easily changed facet of coaching. His coaching iq, especially during the game, bothers me the most. And his lack of ability to fire the guys up.(that's speculation. It's not like I'm in the locker room to know what kind of leader he is)

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Old
04-18-2013, 05:58 PM
  #306
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Interesting, Lindy Ruff was asked if anyone has kicked the tires with him since he was let go, and he said point blank, "No. No one has."

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/r...m-next-season/

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04-18-2013, 06:03 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Interesting, Lindy Ruff was asked if anyone has kicked the tires with him since he was let go, and he said point blank, "No. No one has."

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/r...m-next-season/
So does that mean that the Avs have probably been the only team that talked to him? Or that no team has talked to him?

Seeing as how the Avs work, either could be true lol. (I don't really think Colorado will go after Ruff as a coach personally.)

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04-18-2013, 06:11 PM
  #308
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I wouldn't read into that, Ruff couldn't say anything if someone currently was... but at the sametime he isn't going to be approached during the final two weeks of the season. He won't get interviews until after the playoffs when teams start to rebuild.

I'll say this though, the Avs damn well better have news before the draft about Sacco being let go. I don't care if they blame the team for him failing, get rid of him and let a new coach come in before the draft.

Eakins is my choice personally. We need some new blood. I wouldn't mind giving John Anderson the role from Phoenix and I also wouldn't mind Gwoz if he wants to stay in the Denver area and give the NHL a shot. He could revitalize Staz's career.

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Old
04-18-2013, 06:16 PM
  #309
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I wouldn't read into that, Ruff couldn't say anything if someone currently was... but at the sametime he isn't going to be approached during the final two weeks of the season. He won't get interviews until after the playoffs when teams start to rebuild.

I'll say this though, the Avs damn well better have news before the draft about Sacco being let go. I don't care if they blame the team for him failing, get rid of him and let a new coach come in before the draft.

Eakins is my choice personally. We need some new blood. I wouldn't mind giving John Anderson the role from Phoenix and I also wouldn't mind Gwoz if he wants to stay in the Denver area and give the NHL a shot. He could revitalize Staz's career.
It sounds like we need just about anyone besides Sacco, lol. I think there is only one or two coaches people have agreed on not wanting.

I'm really worried that they are not going to fire him, and I'm usually one of the more glass half full people around here.

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04-18-2013, 06:20 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
It sounds like we need just about anyone besides Sacco, lol. I think there is only one or two coaches people have agreed on not wanting.

I'm really worried that they are not going to fire him, and I'm usually one of the more glass half full people around here.
I refuse to believe we won't fire him. It takes a special kind of stupid to intentionally punish one's self time and time again without stopping the pain.

As for coaches, I'm fairly picky. I don't want Ruff, Roy, etc. I want a high octane offense from a coach that knows how to develop young players and commands respect because of his intelligence and not because of fear of being benched or bagskated. Sacco wore off on this team two years ago...

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04-18-2013, 06:27 PM
  #311
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I refuse to believe we won't fire him. It takes a special kind of stupid to intentionally punish one's self time and time again without stopping the pain.

As for coaches, I'm fairly picky. I don't want Ruff, Roy, etc. I want a high octane offense from a coach that knows how to develop young players and commands respect because of his intelligence and not because of fear of being benched or bagskated. Sacco wore off on this team two years ago...
Oh yeah, I agree.

Roy wouldn't be the end of the world though, and the only reason I say that is because of the idea that they'll look within the family first. The only reason Boucher is being mentioned by Dater is probably because hes French Canadian.

Roy's known for his offensive style, and the ability to handle young players well. Why don't you like him as a possibility?

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04-18-2013, 06:29 PM
  #312
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Oh yeah, I agree.

Roy wouldn't be the end of the world though, and the only reason I say that is because of the idea that they'll look within the family first. The only reason Boucher is being mentioned by Dater is probably because hes French Canadian.

Roy's known for his offensive style, and the ability to handle young players well. Why don't you like him as a possibility?
I think he isn't the kind of influence we need for our team.

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04-18-2013, 06:35 PM
  #313
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I think he isn't the kind of influence we need for our team.
And because this organization seriously needs to move away from its glory years. It's not longer 2001. No more bringing in Foote's Forsberg's and Roy's, Dedmarshes, Lefebvres etc.

I find it insulting. When we brough back Foote and Forsberg I felt like it was a PR stunt to mask our suck [edit: to be fair, we were a bubble team at the time]

They were great in the day at what they did, but as a fan, I want the best coach available, preferably with winning experience in the NHL.

Can we please move away from always looking in the family?

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04-18-2013, 06:50 PM
  #314
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I wouldn't read into that, Ruff couldn't say anything if someone currently was... but at the sametime he isn't going to be approached during the final two weeks of the season. He won't get interviews until after the playoffs when teams start to rebuild.

I'll say this though, the Avs damn well better have news before the draft about Sacco being let go. I don't care if they blame the team for him failing, get rid of him and let a new coach come in before the draft.

Eakins is my choice personally. We need some new blood. I wouldn't mind giving John Anderson the role from Phoenix and I also wouldn't mind Gwoz if he wants to stay in the Denver area and give the NHL a shot. He could revitalize Staz's career.
I wouldn't read into it in terms of that hurting his chances of being the Avs HC (assuming he has a chance to begin with) but I don't think he would be just straight up lying if a team had a quick conversation with him and kicked the tires.

I was expecting the standard, "I don't want to get into that right now" kind of answer, but he straight up said, "No. No one."

I would have thought some other teams might have spoken with him ahead of the Avs actually. Just to let him know they may be interested, and keep him from feeling desperate that he should take the first offer someone gives him.

I agree with your second point though. Every day that goes by after game 48 without the announcement of Sacco's firing, makes it that much more unlikely. If we don't hear anything in the first week, I'm going to be really nervous.

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04-18-2013, 08:02 PM
  #315
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And because this organization seriously needs to move away from its glory years. It's not longer 2001. No more bringing in Foote's Forsberg's and Roy's, Dedmarshes, Lefebvres etc.

I find it insulting. When we brough back Foote and Forsberg I felt like it was a PR stunt to mask our suck [edit: to be fair, we were a bubble team at the time]

They were great in the day at what they did, but as a fan, I want the best coach available, preferably with winning experience in the NHL.

Can we please move away from always looking in the family?
C'mon, I remember everyone being pretty happy getting Foote and Forsberg back. I was for sure. Now they are retired so we have to move on, so whatever.

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04-18-2013, 08:10 PM
  #316
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I love the list of longest tenured coaches with current team:

Joe Sacco
John Tortorella
Peter Laviolette
Dave Tippett
Dan Bylsma
Joel Quenneville
Todd McLellan
Claude Julien
Alain Vigneault
Mike Babcock
Barry Trotz

One, ok maybe possibly two names don't fit in with the rest.

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04-18-2013, 08:27 PM
  #317
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I love the list of longest tenured coaches with current team:

Joe Sacco
John Tortorella
Peter Laviolette
Dave Tippett
Dan Bylsma
Joel Quenneville
Todd McLellan
Claude Julien
Alain Vigneault
Mike Babcock
Barry Trotz

One, ok maybe possibly two names don't fit in with the rest.
Which is the other one. The rest of those are excellent coaches IMO.

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04-18-2013, 08:28 PM
  #318
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C'mon, I remember everyone being pretty happy getting Foote and Forsberg back.
-Ahem-

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04-18-2013, 09:42 PM
  #319
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I refuse to believe we won't fire him. It takes a special kind of stupid to intentionally punish one's self time and time again without stopping the pain.

As for coaches, I'm fairly picky. I don't want Ruff, Roy, etc. I want a high octane offense from a coach that knows how to develop young players and commands respect because of his intelligence and not because of fear of being benched or bagskated. Sacco wore off on this team two years ago...
Yeah, that is what I want too.

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04-19-2013, 04:34 AM
  #320
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Which is the other one. The rest of those are excellent coaches IMO.
My money's on McLellan.

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04-25-2013, 01:14 PM
  #321
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One can only hope that these are the last two games he coaches for the Avs.

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04-25-2013, 01:48 PM
  #322
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One can only hope that these are the last two games he coaches for the Avs.
Sure. He will lead USA to success and become head coach for USA national team! YES!

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04-25-2013, 02:00 PM
  #323
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One can only hope that these are the last two games he coaches for the Avs.
You better believe he will not get fired until mid season next yr. Thats the way I see it going down. Sacco has used injuries as excuses the past few seasons I really wonder what his excuse will be at the end of the yr.

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04-25-2013, 02:03 PM
  #324
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Another thing is Hejduk injured? If not I really dont see why he needs to be a healthy scratch as this will most likely be his final year as an AV. Why not let the leader in games played for the organization play since the season is done anyways?

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04-25-2013, 02:05 PM
  #325
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Sakic has no management track record, let alone a successful one - oh wait, that makes him the perfect Pierre Lacroix hire.

I wouldn't mind a guy like Gwozdecky as an assistant but I want a head coach with NHL experience.

Look at what Carlyle is doing in Toronto a lot of players who were previously written off.
And yet Carlyle was there for the taking last season when he got canned by the Ducks and our idiot GM prolly had no idea about him being fired.

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