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Bud Holloway

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Old
04-16-2013, 02:45 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by HookKing View Post
Bud should have gotten a sip because he earned it -- not to be "appeased". At this point it looks like the staff badly misjudged him.
I think this is the crux of our dispute. You beleive that Holloway deserved a recall, I dispute that. And I'm not saying he didn't deserve one, I'm just saying he wasn't heads and shoulders ahead of everyone else so that it was an obvious call. But that's all a mute point now and how things play out from here. Someone on the Kings board is saying thta Holloway agent and DL have been talking about Holloway coming to LA after the SEL playoffs are over. I doubt he'll ever be a King, but stranger things have happened.

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04-16-2013, 02:50 PM
  #102
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Is Bud capable of being a top six forward or even a top line forward in the NHL?

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04-16-2013, 02:52 PM
  #103
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Is Bud capable of being a top six forward or even a top line forward in the NHL?
For some team, that will literally be the $1 million question (or more on a long-term deal likely).

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04-16-2013, 06:30 PM
  #104
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How is signing a one-way deal for a player like Holloway a PR disaster?
Huh? Surely you're not this dense. For him to sign an offer sheet with another team would be a PR disaster. How has that not been clear?

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04-16-2013, 11:15 PM
  #105
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Huh? Surely you're not this dense. For him to sign an offer sheet with another team would be a PR disaster. How has that not been clear?
How is it clear? Look at ROR. That caused a big stir, but it was all directed at first the Avs for not having ROR already locked up, and then at the Flames for the fact that they could have basically given away a 1st and a 3rd for nothing (since ROR would have had to go on waivers if they had got him). I don't see much disaster for ROR, especially after he started reciving his $5.5 million a year pay cheques.

No one attacks the player in those cases, and Holloway would likely make out like bandit, since most players who get offer sheeted get more than they are worth so the other team won't match the bid.

There's nothing to be dense about. If Holloway gets an offer sheet that he likes, he'd be smiling all the way to the bank, not ducking the PR machine.

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04-16-2013, 11:27 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
Huh? Surely you're not this dense. For him to sign an offer sheet with another team would be a PR disaster. How has that not been clear?
I have no idea what you mean? If Holloway had received a one-way offer sheet I guarantee he would have signed it, it would have guaranteed him an NHL chance. How does that look bad for him?

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04-17-2013, 06:08 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
How is it clear? Look at ROR. That caused a big stir, but it was all directed at first the Avs for not having ROR already locked up, and then at the Flames for the fact that they could have basically given away a 1st and a 3rd for nothing (since ROR would have had to go on waivers if they had got him). I don't see much disaster for ROR, especially after he started reciving his $5.5 million a year pay cheques.

No one attacks the player in those cases, and Holloway would likely make out like bandit, since most players who get offer sheeted get more than they are worth so the other team won't match the bid.

There's nothing to be dense about. If Holloway gets an offer sheet that he likes, he'd be smiling all the way to the bank, not ducking the PR machine.
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I have no idea what you mean? If Holloway had received a one-way offer sheet I guarantee he would have signed it, it would have guaranteed him an NHL chance. How does that look bad for him?
The media doesn't attack the player, but I guess it's frowned upon in the league itself. Maybe because he's never played a game, I don't know the specifics, but it's the case.

Really, it would make total sense for any team to sign him to one. There'd be no compensation involved, and LA wouldn't be likely to match. But his camp refused to go that route because it would look bad and not because of a lack of interest.

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04-17-2013, 07:34 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
The media doesn't attack the player, but I guess it's frowned upon in the league itself. Maybe because he's never played a game, I don't know the specifics, but it's the case.

Really, it would make total sense for any team to sign him to one. There'd be no compensation involved, and LA wouldn't be likely to match. But his camp refused to go that route because it would look bad and not because of a lack of interest.
How do you know his camp refused because it'd look bad? I've heard no news of him being offered anything, nevermind him refusing it. Would you please provide a link?

I'd assume if he had been offered something and refused, it was likely because it wasn't what he was seeking, whether that being a one-way deal or not the right amount of money. In all likelihood, no team will make an offer because for them to make an offer which LA wouldn't match would be far more than anyone would want to pay. ROR for example got offered $5.5 million, which most would say is crazy, and Colorado still matched.

Also, whether or not there would be compensation would be dictated by the offer. The NHL compensation chart before the lockout looked like this:

Quote:
●$1,110,249 or below - No Compensation
●Over $1,110,249 to $1,682,194 - 3rd round pick
●Over $1,682,194 to $3,364,391 - 2nd round pick
●Over $3,364,391 to $5,046,585 - 1st round pick, 3rd
●Over $5,046,585 to $6,728,781 - 1st round pick, 2nd, 3rd
●Over $6,728,781 To $8,410,976 - Two 1st Round Picks, 2nd, 3rd
●Over $8,410,976 - Four 1st Round Picks
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/20...e-offer-sheets

Considering the salary cap is the same this year as it was set to be before the lockout, and there's no news of it changing following the lockout, I'm going to assume it's the same as above. As such, anything above $1.1 million calls for compensation. And I'd assume anything below LA would match. Soderberg garnered just over $1 million in a hit hit, and it's hard to argue Bud is worth more than him. As such, that's likely why Bud hasn't been given an RFA offer sheet worthy of signing, because LA would likely match it. Anything they wouldn't match would likely cost to much and cost compensation.

Either way, I'd love to see where you are getting the info that Bud declined or otherwise ignored an offer sheet due to it 'looking bad.'

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04-17-2013, 09:13 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
How do you know his camp refused because it'd look bad? I've heard no news of him being offered anything, nevermind him refusing it. Would you please provide a link?

I'd assume if he had been offered something and refused, it was likely because it wasn't what he was seeking, whether that being a one-way deal or not the right amount of money. In all likelihood, no team will make an offer because for them to make an offer which LA wouldn't match would be far more than anyone would want to pay. ROR for example got offered $5.5 million, which most would say is crazy, and Colorado still matched.

Also, whether or not there would be compensation would be dictated by the offer. The NHL compensation chart before the lockout looked like this:



http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/20...e-offer-sheets

Considering the salary cap is the same this year as it was set to be before the lockout, and there's no news of it changing following the lockout, I'm going to assume it's the same as above. As such, anything above $1.1 million calls for compensation. And I'd assume anything below LA would match. Soderberg garnered just over $1 million in a hit hit, and it's hard to argue Bud is worth more than him. As such, that's likely why Bud hasn't been given an RFA offer sheet worthy of signing, because LA would likely match it. Anything they wouldn't match would likely cost to much and cost compensation.

Either way, I'd love to see where you are getting the info that Bud declined or otherwise ignored an offer sheet due to it 'looking bad.'
LA refused to give him a one-way as it was, so I have doubts they'd match a 1-year deal which would take him to UFA anyway and pay him a million dollars with a lockout looming. Assuming that's the range any hypothetical deal was in.

And of course I don't have a link, you know that. How in the hell would I have a link for something like that? I know a guy who knows a guy, let's leave it at that. You don't have to believe anything I say, that's cool, but it is the truth.

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04-18-2013, 10:02 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
LA refused to give him a one-way as it was, so I have doubts they'd match a 1-year deal which would take him to UFA anyway and pay him a million dollars with a lockout looming. Assuming that's the range any hypothetical deal was in.

And of course I don't have a link, you know that. How in the hell would I have a link for something like that? I know a guy who knows a guy, let's leave it at that. You don't have to believe anything I say, that's cool, but it is the truth.
The famous HFboards defense. Yeah, there's zero reason for me, or anyone else, to believe that.

And frankly if Bud is turning down good contract offers because he might look bad, then he has zero business acumen (or his agent, whoever gave him that advise). Not to mention I like how it's implied he'd turn it down because RFA signings aren't the norm, hence why its deemed a bad idea, yet he bolts to Sweden rather than staying with the Kings. I mean, clearly that's a very normal, every day procedure that hundreds of 22-year-old players do every year, turning down a two-way contract with an NHL club for a chance to play in the SEL. Heck, Moller's from Sweden and even he asked the Kings permission before signing there, not leaving with zero notice like Bud.

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04-18-2013, 12:03 PM
  #111
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The famous HFboards defense. Yeah, there's zero reason for me, or anyone else, to believe that.

And frankly if Bud is turning down good contract offers because he might look bad, then he has zero business acumen (or his agent, whoever gave him that advise). Not to mention I like how it's implied he'd turn it down because RFA signings aren't the norm, hence why its deemed a bad idea, yet he bolts to Sweden rather than staying with the Kings. I mean, clearly that's a very normal, every day procedure that hundreds of 22-year-old players do every year, turning down a two-way contract with an NHL club for a chance to play in the SEL. Heck, Moller's from Sweden and even he asked the Kings permission before signing there, not leaving with zero notice like Bud.
Kings didn't deserve any notice in the eyes of Bud Holloway imo. He likely thought he was the best player and most deserving of a call up during his 2 year run in the AHL. When he didn't even get a single call up (not even a game, just a CALL UP) he likely felt he was snubbed.

Anyone have any updates on the SEL finals btw?

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04-18-2013, 01:58 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by KapG View Post
Kings didn't deserve any notice in the eyes of Bud Holloway imo. He likely thought he was the best player and most deserving of a call up during his 2 year run in the AHL. When he didn't even get a single call up (not even a game, just a CALL UP) he likely felt he was snubbed. Anyone have any updates on the SEL finals btw?


It's been pretty well documented in interviews and such that Holloway left not because he felt snubbed at the lack of a callup but because DL wouldn't give him a one-way contract... He didn't want to spend another season in Manchester playing for peanuts and took the cash to work on his game in the SEL.

Even DL has said he was confused by Bud's choice and had him penciled in on the third line the season he left.

I'd like the Kings to try and sign him as he may be a really solid replacement for Penner but if that doesn't happen oh well, I wish him the best of luck as the Kings are in pretty decent shape right now without him...

I'd also like to point out that while he was the Monarchs leading scorer for two years in a row, never in any point (excluding playoffs) in his time in Manchester was he the top producing player for the them. There was always someone like Moller, Loktionov, or Parse that was putting up points at a better pace than Holloway and many of those got callups. Doesn't mean he isn't good or great, just pointing out that as good as he was doing others were more impressive.

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04-18-2013, 03:50 PM
  #113
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I'd also like to point out that while he was the Monarchs leading scorer for two years in a row, never in any point (excluding playoffs) in his time in Manchester was he the top producing player for the them. There was always someone like Moller, Loktionov, or Parse that was putting up points at a better pace than Holloway and many of those got callups. Doesn't mean he isn't good or great, just pointing out that as good as he was doing others were more impressive.
Just when I've seen it all.

Yes let's exclude the playoffs, the most important part of the season. No lets go even further, blame Bud Holloway for staying healthy !

After all Scott Parse' point per 14 game season and Loktionov's injury riddled seasons where he was never a PPG player were much, much better.

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04-18-2013, 04:12 PM
  #114
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And now he's a SEL champion.

Skellefteå won four straight for their first gold in I believe 30 years.

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04-18-2013, 04:49 PM
  #115
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Just when I've seen it all.

Yes let's exclude the playoffs, the most important part of the season. No lets go even further, blame Bud Holloway for staying healthy !

After all Scott Parse' point per 14 game season and Loktionov's injury riddled seasons where he was never a PPG player were much, much better.
Yes, let's excuse the playoffs because both of those seasons when bud was producing in the playoffs the Kings weren't playing. So the Kings are supposed to call him up to do what exactly? Play golf?

Regarding the 2009 season that I think you're talking about;

You are also aware that the year Parse put up 15 points in 14 AHL games he was called up and played 59 games in NHL right?

Loktionov put up 24 points in 29 games, was called up and then seperated his shoulder in his first NHL game...

Moller had 40 games of NHL experience and was called up 3 times to fill in for injuries...

Segal was aquired for the sole purpose of being a plug-in NHL/AHL tweener in case of injuries so another players development wasn't affected.

If you think Bud Holloway with a solid 47 points in 75 games deserved a callup before any of those guys then you're clearly allowing hindsight and revisionist history to cloud your judgement.

Did he maybe deserve a callup over Corey Elkins at the end of the year? Sure why not. But if memory serves me correctly the Kings made a point that season of calling up the leading scorers from Manchester that season and until the last few games (after the Kings had already traded for Halpern and Modin) was holloway the leading scorer.


Last edited by tigermask48: 04-18-2013 at 05:42 PM.
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04-18-2013, 04:50 PM
  #116
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And now he's a SEL champion.

Skellefteå won four straight for their first gold in I believe 30 years.
35 years*

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04-18-2013, 04:56 PM
  #117
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It's been pretty well documented in interviews and such that Holloway left not because he felt snubbed at the lack of a callup but because DL wouldn't give him a one-way contract... He didn't want to spend another season in Manchester playing for peanuts and took the cash to work on his game in the SEL.

Even DL has said he was confused by Bud's choice and had him penciled in on the third line the season he left.

I'd like the Kings to try and sign him as he may be a really solid replacement for Penner but if that doesn't happen oh well, I wish him the best of luck as the Kings are in pretty decent shape right now without him...

I'd also like to point out that while he was the Monarchs leading scorer for two years in a row, never in any point (excluding playoffs) in his time in Manchester was he the top producing player for the them. There was always someone like Moller, Loktionov, or Parse that was putting up points at a better pace than Holloway and many of those got callups. Doesn't mean he isn't good or great, just pointing out that as good as he was doing others were more impressive.
and why do you think he wanted the one way contract?

ill give you a hint. It probably had to do with the fact that he felt that without a one way contract in LA, he would just spend more time in the AHL where he felt he had nothing to prove.

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04-18-2013, 05:19 PM
  #118
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and why do you think he wanted the one way contract?

ill give you a hint. It probably had to do with the fact that he felt that without a one way contract in LA, he would just spend more time in the AHL where he felt he had nothing to prove.
Ok... So what came first the chicken or the egg?

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04-18-2013, 05:22 PM
  #119
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Yes, let's excuse the playoffs because both of those seasons when bud was producing in the playoffs the Kings weren't playing. So the Kings are supposed to call him up to do what exactly? Play golf?
What are you talking about, the Kings made the playoffs in 2009/2010 and 2010/2011. Though, that's not the point. Point is you try to minimize his accomplishments, and that has been done before already, but you take it to another level. Moller and Loktionov I can understand but not the Zeilers, Cliché's, Segal's, Clune's of this world. Now we can even add Scott Parse to this list. Believe me, I liked Parse but it just shows how biased people are. Some will use any argument to show that Holloway didnt deserve anything.

" Lets ignore, Holloways playoffs. Not important. While I'm at it, there were always players putting up points at a better pace than Holloway, like 14 game PPG player Scott Parse."

Madness.

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04-18-2013, 06:07 PM
  #120
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What are you talking about, the Kings made the playoffs in 2009/2010 and 2010/2011.
Yes, and that's also when Holloway had his great playoff showings. The Kings also got eliminated in 6 games those years. How dare the Kings not reward him for those great playoff performances by calling him up a week or so before they got eliminated and before even had those great performances...

That's the only reason I say ignore his playoffs. When he was putting up points, calling him up WAS NOT and option.

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04-18-2013, 06:10 PM
  #121
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Yes, and that's also when Holloway had his great playoff showings. The Kings also got eliminated in 6 games those years. How dare the Kings not reward him for those great playoff performances by calling him up a week or so before they got eliminated and before even had those great performances...

That's the only reason I say ignore his playoffs. When he was putting up points, calling him up WAS NOT and option.
There's a full regular season after a few months again.

Yeah Corey Elkins is another scrub who got NHL playing time. This is not revisionist history to cloud my judgement because back then I already wondered why.

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04-18-2013, 06:23 PM
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There's a full regular season after a few months again.

Yeah Corey Elkins is another scrub who got NHL playing time. This is not revisionist history to cloud my judgement because back then I already wondered why.
I love how you keep referring to guys that have actually seen NHL playing time scrubs in some sort of defense of Holloway who has not dressed for a single NHL game yet.

That said, im out of this one.
I'll leave it to someone else to explain "training camp" and "not making the team" to you...
The irrational is strong is this thread.

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04-18-2013, 06:30 PM
  #123
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I love how you keep referring to guys that have actually seen NHL playing time scrubs in some sort of defense of Holloway who has not dressed for a single NHL game yet.

That said, im out of this one.
The irrational is strong is this thread.
Werent you the one who brought it up and now you love it I keep refering to it ?

The Parse thing was indeed a highlight reel.

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04-18-2013, 06:45 PM
  #124
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Holloway once again turned down big KHL money and the talk around town is he might stay with us yet another season. I knew he like it here but I didn't expect that would be an option, for one he got to win the championship so that mission is done, and if he wanted money he's got that KHL money option and probably NHL teams having some interest. But then few of us had any real hope he would stay with us even after last season, maybe Möller staying has something to do with it, those guys are super tight.

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04-18-2013, 07:15 PM
  #125
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Holloway once again turned down big KHL money and the talk around town is he might stay with us yet another season. I knew he like it here but I didn't expect that would be an option, for one he got to win the championship so that mission is done, and if he wanted money he's got that KHL money option and probably NHL teams having some interest. But then few of us had any real hope he would stay with us even after last season, maybe Möller staying has something to do with it, those guys are super tight.
Thanks for the news! Very interesting.

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