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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Phoenix LXXIV: Be Seeing You

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Old
04-19-2013, 10:22 AM
  #751
Ugmo
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Hi Ugmo:

I have not followed this story in 6 months but everytime I hear "experts" on TSN, Sportsnet or the CBC talk about relocation, they always say Seattle.
Hmm, okay. I thought Darren Dreger said like two weeks ago that according to his sources within the league, QC is the frontrunner. I guess probably no one really knows for sure except GB and BD.

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04-19-2013, 10:45 AM
  #752
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Hmm, okay. I thought Darren Dreger said like two weeks ago that according to his sources within the league, QC is the frontrunner. I guess probably no one really knows for sure except GB and BD.
PKP and the inside folks in QC would know if they are still in the running, too.

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04-19-2013, 10:57 AM
  #753
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
IMO the next time you see Bettman in front of a microphone talking about the Coyotes, he will be doing so from some other city that has just been awarded a relocated hockey team.
I agree, i cant possibly imagine the league wanting to go through another year of losses and humbling humility regarding their ridiculous handling of this situation! So QC, will be the site of the presser and GB will treat the town of Glendale and the fans like the ugly stepchild, not a word of sympathy or gratitude.

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04-19-2013, 11:04 AM
  #754
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Current Coyote odds of making the playoffs are now at 1.9%! Fans get out to the final home game on friday night!

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04-19-2013, 11:12 AM
  #755
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Well, thats a Hell of a thing to have attached to your crotch, face, hair. So perhaps not feasible, outdoor parking huh?

you people ever heard of chainsaws?...


I agree on the parking lot vs garage approach. The latter tend to be popular where space is limited-- urban centers, stack 'em and pack 'em. Maybe the planners thought they'd run out of space.


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Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
Hmm, okay. I thought Darren Dreger said like two weeks ago that according to his sources within the league, QC is the frontrunner. I guess probably no one really knows for sure except GB and BD.
The thing that still gets me about QC is the recently approved realignment. Do they just tell Detroit the deal is off and back to the Western Conf with them?

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04-19-2013, 11:18 AM
  #756
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I agree on the parking lot vs garage approach. The latter tend to be popular where space is limited-- urban centers, stack 'em and pack 'em. Maybe the planners thought they'd run out of space.




The thing that still gets me about QC is the recently approved realignment. Do they just tell Detroit the deal is off and back to the Western Conf with them?
Yes the realignment thing is puzzling. Though I must say that as an Oier fan I'd be happy with three teams out of six and 8 out of 13 making the playoffs.

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04-19-2013, 11:21 AM
  #757
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The thing that still gets me about QC is the recently approved realignment. Do they just tell Detroit the deal is off and back to the Western Conf with them?

They said when they released the new alignment that it didn't take into account expansion or relocation, and that it would be reviewed in a season or two, didn't they? And as Winnipeg has shown, a team can play in a completely illogical division for a season or two. Not to mention, the whole Seattle situation was a lot less clear when they released the new alignment a couple of months ago (to the extent that it's even clear right now). I would think it would be a huge risk for the league to release a realignment plan a few months ago that already assumed Seattle would be a done deal and/or that Glendale would set up a sweet new deal for the Coyotes. So my tendency would be to assume that realignment is unrelated to what happens to the Coyotes.

Or even that there's a plan B that hasn't been released.

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04-19-2013, 11:31 AM
  #758
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Yes the realignment thing is puzzling. Though I must say that as an Oiler fan I'd be happy with three teams out of six and 8 out of 13 making the playoffs.
You've got the numbers game figured out, haven't you?



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Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
They said when they released the new alignment that it didn't take into account expansion or relocation, and that it would be reviewed in a season or two, didn't they? And as Winnipeg has shown, a team can play in a completely illogical division for a season or two. Not to mention, the whole Seattle situation was a lot less clear when they released the new alignment a couple of months ago (to the extent that it's even clear right now). I would think it would be a huge risk for the league to release a realignment plan a few months ago that already assumed Seattle would be a done deal and/or that Glendale would set up a sweet new deal for the Coyotes. So my tendency would be to assume that realignment is unrelated to what happens to the Coyotes.

Or even that there's a plan B that hasn't been released.

Sure, they feed that to the public, but I'd be willing to bet the NHL has its ducks in a row and know fairly well where the Coyotes will end up, once they finally give up on keeping them in Glendale.

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04-19-2013, 11:54 AM
  #759
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Maybe someone can clarify something for me... In the RFP by Beacon they state: "The Arena is currently managed by the NHL, the owner of the Coyotes, and its existing arena management agreement with the City and other related arena agreements contractually expire after the current NHL season (June 2013)."

It also says in the RFP: "Act as agent for the City in executing the operational requirements of any license/lease agreements with professional sports team(s) and/or anchor tenant(s)(i.e. manage day of game activities and interact with the sports teams regarding use of the Arena);"

Will the NHL need to negotiate a new lease with the new arena management? What actually expires in June 2013?

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04-19-2013, 12:01 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by mesamonster View Post
...GB one way or the other, owes the fans some explanation or HONEST status report on his plans for the team! No more of this obfuscation and deception, we all know that the team is virtually not viable for resale....
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Originally Posted by QcBlizzard View Post
Thing is we are so used to anything but transparency with this league.
Ya, dont hold your breath there mesa, as someone else suggested, GB is likely to "come clean" if you will at a press conference 1000's of miles away from Arizona. If for whatever reason they truly are stuck in park in Glendale then we'll see him making an announcement, that Gosbee/Pastor/Jamison or take your pick simply requires more time to finalize a sale. Be very interesting if that happens, how the COG deals with the RFP on the Arena Management. After checking out the books & financial statements as posted on a previous page here, I wouldnt pay the NHL $6 to manage the building let alone $6M. I'd also be talking to some sharp practising attorneys to see if there was any way at all to go after the league for non-performance. Not because I'd figure I'd win anything, thats a little unlikely, but just to embarrass the Hell out them, give em a bloody nose.... and ya ya I know your not supposed use the courts for stuff like that but it happens every day.

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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
A shame for the Coyote fans who deserve better.
A shame for the City of Glendale who spent millions to build the NHL an arena.
A shame for Quebec City who sound like they will not get the team - but deserve one.
Ya, I just dont see how Seattle at this time is even remotely viable Kevy. Logistically its just an absolute nightmare. Conceptually, sure I'd love to see a team there, another in Portland for that matter, but its got to be done right, properly right out of the box.... and yes, I agree with your other two points. Impossible not to. Just a waste, completely un-necessary, winding up here due to negligence, incompetence, intransigence, greed, lack of critical thought, little to no honour, integrity. Watching Bettmans handling of this file, the Lockout, the situation in Atlanta etc has really changed my perspective from formerly supporting his Commissionership. Indeed, taken a really critical view of now a great many of his actions since being appointed.

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If they were beholding to the...
Hence the 50k fixed fee contract...
.... Ok Tommy, you and I will just
have to agree to disagree on these points.

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Old
04-19-2013, 12:14 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by gifted88 View Post
Will the NHL need to negotiate a new lease with the new arena management? What actually expires in June 2013?
This is where its gets tricky. The NHL holds a 10yr AMUL the City agreed to and signed off on 2yrs ago that gives them Management rights. This is renewable at the leagues discretion annually and would in fact trump & effectively kill off the RFP, awarding of a contract to anyone until such time as the NHL blows town. In such an event, for example lets say the league doesnt have anywhere to sell this team to, their stuck there, be it voluntary or because of whatever obstacles exist, they could stop dead in its tracks this entire process. Demand Glendale pay them the $6M for 2013/14. The city would have every right not to. The NHL left to cover all of the expenses themselves. I'd be good with that. Beyond fine in fact. And if it does come to that, I hope the COG does tell the league to go fly a kite. They likely wouldnt/wont, but I surely do wish it was so. If the teams parked there for another year, amicably, the NHL could receive the $6M, give another year to try & sell locally, Deadline of December 31st, if no deals reached by then, absolutely moving no matter what, whichever Management Firm the COG decides upon taking over June or July 1st 2014.

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04-19-2013, 12:33 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
This is where its gets tricky. The NHL holds a 10yr AMUL the City agreed to and signed off on 2yrs ago that gives them Management rights. This is renewable at the leagues discretion annually and would in fact trump & effectively kill off the RFP, awarding of a contract to anyone until such time as the NHL blows town. In such an event, for example lets say the league doesnt have anywhere to sell this team to, their stuck there, be it voluntary or because of whatever obstacles exist, they could stop dead in its tracks this entire process. Demand Glendale pay them the $6M for 2013/14. The city would have every right not to. The NHL left to cover all of the expenses themselves. I'd be good with that. Beyond fine in fact. And if it does come to that, I hope the COG does tell the league to go fly a kite. They likely wouldnt/wont, but I surely do wish it was so. If the teams parked there for another year, amicably, the NHL could receive the $6M, give another year to try & sell locally, Deadline of December 31st, if no deals reached by then, absolutely moving no matter what, whichever Management Firm the COG decides upon taking over June or July 1st 2014.
Thanks for the response. The RFP made it seem so final and definite. Appears to not be the case.

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04-19-2013, 12:49 PM
  #763
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This is where its gets tricky. The NHL holds a 10yr AMUL the City agreed to and signed off on 2yrs ago that gives them Management rights. This is renewable at the leagues discretion annually and would in fact trump & effectively kill off the RFP, awarding of a contract to anyone until such time as the NHL blows town. In such an event, for example lets say the league doesnt have anywhere to sell this team to, their stuck there, be it voluntary or because of whatever obstacles exist, they could stop dead in its tracks this entire process. Demand Glendale pay them the $6M for 2013/14. The city would have every right not to. The NHL left to cover all of the expenses themselves. I'd be good with that. Beyond fine in fact. And if it does come to that, I hope the COG does tell the league to go fly a kite. They likely wouldnt/wont, but I surely do wish it was so. If the teams parked there for another year, amicably, the NHL could receive the $6M, give another year to try & sell locally, Deadline of December 31st, if no deals reached by then, absolutely moving no matter what, whichever Management Firm the COG decides upon taking over June or July 1st 2014.
I really can't see the NHL remaining as the Coyotes owner for another year. It is already beyond ludicrous that they have owned the team for this long, and without a large operating subsidy next year they'll likely take another big loss next year. I just can't see it, K.

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Thanks for the response. The RFP made it seem so final and definite. Appears to not be the case.
The COG can cancel the RFP at any time. If there is a bona fide Coyotes owner that emerges in the next short while and they can hammer out a mutually acceptable lease agreement, the COG will cancel the RFP and go with the Coyotes. This is the "Plan B", which the COG expects it will have to fall back on if none of the Coyotes ownership hopefuls pan out, or they can't agree on a lease with a prospective Coyotes owner.

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04-19-2013, 12:52 PM
  #764
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Thanks for the response. The RFP made it seem so final and definite. Appears to not be the case.
Welcome. I'll have a Tanqueray & Tab and keep em comin... or do I still suck?

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04-19-2013, 12:58 PM
  #765
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I really can't see the NHL remaining as the Coyotes owner for another year. It is already beyond ludicrous that they have owned the team for this long, and without a large operating subsidy next year they'll likely take another big loss next year. I just can't see it, K.
How many days has it been? The NHL's deal with Moyes to take control of the Coyotes was finalized November 3, 2009. As of today, April 19, 2013, that was 1,263 days ago.

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04-19-2013, 01:14 PM
  #766
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
This is where its gets tricky. The NHL holds a 10yr AMUL the City agreed to and signed off on 2yrs ago that gives them Management rights. This is renewable at the leagues discretion annually and would in fact trump & effectively kill off the RFP, awarding of a contract to anyone until such time as the NHL blows town. In such an event, for example lets say the league doesnt have anywhere to sell this team to, their stuck there, be it voluntary or because of whatever obstacles exist, they could stop dead in its tracks this entire process. Demand Glendale pay them the $6M for 2013/14. The city would have every right not to. The NHL left to cover all of the expenses themselves. I'd be good with that. Beyond fine in fact. And if it does come to that, I hope the COG does tell the league to go fly a kite. They likely wouldnt/wont, but I surely do wish it was so. If the teams parked there for another year, amicably, the NHL could receive the $6M, give another year to try & sell locally, Deadline of December 31st, if no deals reached by then, absolutely moving no matter what, whichever Management Firm the COG decides upon taking over June or July 1st 2014.
The NHL has an AMULA for what, another 7 years? However, the NHL will not manage the arena without the Yotes being there. Can you imagine them paying for all those expenses themselves since their abysmal bookings will come nowhere near covering the expenses they are required to pay for operating the arena?

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Thanks for the response. The RFP made it seem so final and definite. Appears to not be the case.
If they get a response they like there is always a way to get out of a contract.

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04-19-2013, 01:18 PM
  #767
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Welcome. I'll have a Tanqueray & Tab and keep em comin... or do I still suck?
huh? you've been one of the more interesting posters on here along with a handful of others. I have zero writing skills so I generally keep to lurking until I have a question.

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04-19-2013, 01:20 PM
  #768
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How many days has it been? The NHL's deal with Moyes to take control of the Coyotes was finalized November 3, 2009. As of today, April 19, 2013, that was 1,263 days ago.
Amazing how long it's been when you think about it.

I got an NHL team and have actually watched them for two (2) seasons, and in that time nothing has changed in regards to the Coyotes and ownership.

My son graduated from high school, went to college for 2.5 years, graduated that, and has started a job..... and the NHL / Coyotes ownership is at the same stage.


Sad....

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04-19-2013, 01:33 PM
  #769
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Can you imagine them paying for all those expenses themselves since their abysmal bookings will come nowhere near covering the expenses they are required to pay for operating the arena?
Oh of course not, God no, their outta there. Escape clause & completely
off the hook. Too bad, for surely its a wonderful thought to entertain. Evil.

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huh? you've been one of the more interesting posters on here along with a handful of others.
Tanks', and I'll have a Tab & Tanqueray's a line from a Bill Murray movie.
Sounds like a positively repulsive combination but hey, whatever Bill wants...

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04-19-2013, 01:38 PM
  #770
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I just can't see it, K.
Crazy isnt it?. However...

One persons insanity is another persons reality.
Tim Burton

Welcome to GaryWorld...
In Theatres May 24th....

heres the promotional clip.... www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuRj8VUZn8Y


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04-19-2013, 01:57 PM
  #771
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Hmm, okay. I thought Darren Dreger said like two weeks ago that according to his sources within the league, QC is the frontrunner. I guess probably no one really knows for sure except GB and BD.
As a Canadian, I hope you are right.

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Ya, I just dont see how Seattle at this time is even remotely viable Kevy. Logistically its just an absolute nightmare. Conceptually, sure I'd love to see a team there, another in Portland for that matter, but its got to be done right, properly right out of the box.... and yes, I agree with your other two points. Impossible not to. Just a waste, completely un-necessary, winding up here due to negligence, incompetence, intransigence, greed, lack of critical thought, little to no honour, integrity. Watching Bettmans handling of this file, the Lockout, the situation in Atlanta etc has really changed my perspective from formerly supporting his Commissionership. Indeed, taken a really critical view of now a great many of his actions since being appointed.
I hope you are right too. Of course, I would love to Make it 8. I am being honest when I say that I never hear QC being spoken about as the front runner. Always Seattle.

Oh well, perhaps a new group will keep the team in Phoenix and it will all be a moot point.


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04-19-2013, 02:00 PM
  #772
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I hope you are right too. Of course, I would love to Make it 8. I am being honest when I say that I never hear QC being spoken about as the front runner. Always Seattle.

See, look at it this way: you hear a lot about Seattle because they're currently undergoing the process of getting everything in place. QC already has that taken care of and is all ready to go at the drop of a hat. So there's nothing to report there because they've already done all the groundwork.


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04-19-2013, 02:25 PM
  #773
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I agree, i cant possibly imagine the league wanting to go through another year of losses and humbling humility regarding their ridiculous handling of this situation! So QC, will be the site of the presser and GB will treat the town of Glendale and the fans like the ugly stepchild, not a word of sympathy or gratitude.
I expect some comment about how not showing up is an odd way of encouraging someone to buy the team.

Oh, and some parting comments about Goldwater Inst. before GB drops the mic and walks off stage (stage in SEA or QC to be clear).

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04-19-2013, 02:28 PM
  #774
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How many days has it been? The NHL's deal with Moyes to take control of the Coyotes was finalized November 3, 2009. As of today, April 19, 2013, that was 1,263 days ago.
Please, that would be 90+ fortnights...

Be seeing you!

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04-19-2013, 02:49 PM
  #775
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They said when they released the new alignment that it didn't take into account expansion or relocation, and that it would be reviewed in a season or two, didn't they?
I can't imagine that the league would have conceived this alignment without planning for the known variable of one of the teams moving to the opposite side of the continent.

I never saw any interviews with league brass where they said that relocation was not taken into account, but it's to be expected that something like that would be said, otherwise there's hurt feelings in Arizona and gleeful speculating in Quebec City/Seattle/Sioux Falls/wherever.

I have to think that realignment scenarios involving all of the likely landing spots were voted on and approved, and will only see the light of day after the moving trucks show up.

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