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Old
04-18-2013, 01:52 PM
  #76
Jack de la Hoya
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
You make interesting points, and they are valid. They do not, however, alleviate the concern centered on the Flyer's current goaltending circumstance. The Flyers would be offering an equivalent to 2 first round picks for Schnieder, and there would be other teams offering more.
He was responding to the poster who suggested that the Flyers could keep missing the playoffs with their dysfunctional team.

Despite their traditional struggles in goal and long cup drought, there are few organizations that can boast of being competitive on a year-to-year basis more than the Flyers. It was an absurd comment, even by HF standards.

As to your point, Bryzgalov was very good through the first quarter of the season--and has been basically mediocre since (with a few good performances and a few very bad ones). He's not the team's main problem, and given those problems, it is a bit difficult to evaluate him this year. It is far from clear that Schneider, playing behind this Flyers team, puts up significantly better numbers.

The prevailing assumption among Flyers fans is that Bryzgalov will get another year--behind a healthy and hopefully revamped defensive corps--but with a shorter leash. If he struggles again, he'll be bought out in June 2014.

EDIT: Who was the last goaltender to return the value of 2 1st round picks--let along a top-10 pick + another 1st? I think you're exaggerating Schneider's value considerably.

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04-18-2013, 01:53 PM
  #77
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^ this. Give me Mason at 1.5 and a better defense and buyout Bryz rather then overpay for another stupid contract or even an unknown like Schneider.

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04-18-2013, 02:32 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
You make interesting points, and they are valid. They do not, however, alleviate the concern centered on the Flyer's current goaltending circumstance. The Flyers would be offering an equivalent to 2 first round picks for Schnieder, and there would be other teams offering more.
No one will offer the Canucks the equivalent of 2 1st rounders for Schnieder.

Bryz + 2 1st rounders >>>> Schneider

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04-18-2013, 02:44 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I would rather wait for someone to buy out Luongo, then pursue him in FA if he's still worth it whenever that happens. I would rage if the Flyers dispose of one terrible contract so they can give up a great value player to take on another terrible contract.
I would take my pitchfork on the train to Philly if Holmgren did something that dumb.

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04-18-2013, 02:56 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
No one will offer the Canucks the equivalent of 2 1st rounders for Schnieder.

Bryz + 2 1st rounders >>>> Schneider
Unfortunately for Flyer's fans, the team has put itself into a position where Holmgren will not be able to get involved in bidding for any top goalie, who might be available this summer. Who are the top prospects for the 2014 draft? That's what Holmgren should be focussing on.

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04-18-2013, 02:59 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Unfortunately for Flyer's fans, the team has put itself into a position where Holmgren will not be able to get involved in bidding for any top goalie, who might be available this summer. Who are the top prospects for the 2014 draft? That's what Holmgren should be focussing on.
I don't follow. The last time that the Flyers got in the bidding for the top goalie available in the offseason, they signed Bryzgalov.

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04-18-2013, 03:04 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I don't follow. The last time that the Flyers got in the bidding for the top goalie available in the offseason, they signed Bryzgalov.
And Bryzgalov was clearly a huge mistake. Consequently, Holmgren's mistake has tied his hands for now. He has to give Bryzgalov another year, which means Flyers fans can look forward to a top pick in the 2014 draft.

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04-18-2013, 03:14 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
And Bryzgalov was clearly a huge mistake. Consequently, Holmgren's mistake has tied his hands for now. He has to give Bryzgalov another year, which means Flyers fans can look forward to a top pick in the 2014 draft.
Sorry, I was mistakenly taking your posts as sincere. If you had simply told me you were baiting me, I would have responded more appropriately.

Two points:

First, you're not making any sense: the Flyers hands aren't bound because they can buy out Bryzgalov; they aren't likely to do so because they don't see him as the team's major problem.

Second, you're still making any sense: Last year, with Bryzgalov as the starter, the Flyers finished with 103 points and went to the 2nd round. Bryzgalov may not be a goalie who can win them the cup, but suggesting that they are doomed to a bottom-five finish because of him is absurd.

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04-18-2013, 03:24 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Sorry, I was mistakenly taking your posts as sincere. If you had simply told me you were baiting me, I would have responded more appropriately.

Two points:

First, you're not making any sense: the Flyers hands aren't bound because they can buy out Bryzgalov; they aren't likely to do so because they don't see him as the team's major problem.

Second, you're still making any sense: Last year, with Bryzgalov as the starter, the Flyers finished with 103 points and went to the 2nd round. Bryzgalov may not be a goalie who can win them the cup, but suggesting that they are doomed to a bottom-five finish because of him is absurd.
Actually, the Flyers have a good roster, it's the goalie that IS the issue. Look at Montreal, just as soon as their goalies play badly, their team starts to look bad. It's the same team as before, when they were winning. That's the same attitude that Holmgren will sell to Flyer's fans: we did this with Bryzgalov two years ago; we'll be okay next season. No they won't. That's a proud organization that should cut it's losses now, and move on.

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04-18-2013, 03:29 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Actually, the Flyers have a good roster, it's the goalie that IS the issue. Look at Montreal, just as soon as their goalies play badly, their team starts to look bad. It's the same team as before, when they were winning. That's the same attitude that Holmgren will sell to Flyer's fans: we did this with Bryzgalov two years ago; we'll be okay next season. No they won't. That's a proud organization that should cut it's losses now, and move on.
Not the case with all teams - Philly least of all, given their goaltending struggles over the years.

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04-18-2013, 03:33 PM
  #86
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Not the case with all teams - Philly least of all, given their goaltending struggles over the years.
He hasn't watched the Flyers play much this season, it would seem.

Bryzgalov began the season very well; the rest of the team, even when healthy, did not. Things just sort of spiraled from there.

They put themselves in a deep hole in a shortened season--one that would have been difficult to overcome without losing most of their defensive corps. Bryzgalov struggled during a 23-game run of consecutive starts--but the season was effectively already doomed.

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04-18-2013, 03:37 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
He hasn't watched the Flyers play much this season, it would seem.

Bryzgalov began the season very well; the rest of the team, even when healthy, did not. Things just sort of spiraled from there.

They put themselves in a deep hole in a shortened season--one that would have been difficult to overcome without losing most of their defensive corps. Bryzgalov struggled during a 23-game run of consecutive starts--but the season was effectively already doomed.
23 games is half this season! You are either a very clever troll, or I am one dumb fish.

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04-18-2013, 03:46 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Roy Baby View Post
Everyone is going to be so surprised when the Canucks get an overpayment for him from some desperate team that needs a good goalie at the draft..
He's a Top 10 goalie but still a goalie. Many cheaper options are available. No team is desperate enough to give value for him based on his contract. Canucks will be lucky if they can get someone to trade with.

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04-18-2013, 06:22 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Unfortunately for Flyer's fans, the team has put itself into a position where Holmgren will not be able to get involved in bidding for any top goalie, who might be available this summer. Who are the top prospects for the 2014 draft? That's what Holmgren should be focussing on.
lol...yeah...there was lots of bidding going on this past summer for Luongo. And then again at the deadline. If there was such good bids, why wasn't he traded. Seems to me like the Canucks are negotiating with themselves...going to Toronto 3 times trying to get an offer....yet were turned away.

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04-18-2013, 06:48 PM
  #90
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Would rather amnesty Lu then retain salary, we are in for a serious cap crunch next year, we can't keep any of Lu's money.

Also, I don't think Bryz has been that bad from the games I have seen, although he is not playing to his contract obviously

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04-19-2013, 07:09 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
23 games is half this season! You are either a very clever troll, or I am one dumb fish.
Dumb fish it is?

Bryzgalov did post 23 straight starts, which just goes to show how much faith the Flyers put in their backups. That also explains why they were keen to acquire Mason, who has thus far been fantastic.

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04-19-2013, 09:29 AM
  #92
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lol...yeah...there was lots of bidding going on this past summer for Luongo. And then again at the deadline. If there was such good bids, why wasn't he traded. Seems to me like the Canucks are negotiating with themselves...going to Toronto 3 times trying to get an offer....yet were turned away.
Yes, Luongo would help them, but Philly can't afford his contract right now. (they have Bryzgalov's anchor of a contract) However, they still need need a proven #1, who is a good teammate. One that will work hard, and be a leader. Like I wrote before: it's an unfortunate circumstance for Flyer's fans, because there will be several top goalies available this summer, who the Flyers can't even think about getting.

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04-19-2013, 10:35 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Yes, Luongo would help them, but Philly can't afford his contract right now. (they have Bryzgalov's anchor of a contract) However, they still need need a proven #1, who is a good teammate. One that will work hard, and be a leader. Like I wrote before: it's an unfortunate circumstance for Flyer's fans, because there will be several top goalies available this summer, who the Flyers can't even think about getting.
this is a joke right? Why exactly can flyers fans not think about getting a top goalie this off-season? Cause of Bryz? If Homer thinks one of these guys are the answer Bryz would be amnestied. What flyers fans have said time an time again in this thread is that Bryz has another yr here cause while he has not played up to his contract he has not been the main reason the team has sucked. If you had watched the flyers this yr instead of looking at stats this would be evident.

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04-19-2013, 10:52 AM
  #94
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this is a joke right? Why exactly can flyers fans not think about getting a top goalie this off-season? Cause of Bryz? If Homer thinks one of these guys are the answer Bryz would be amnestied. What flyers fans have said time an time again in this thread is that Bryz has another yr here cause while he has not played up to his contract he has not been the main reason the team has sucked. If you had watched the flyers this yr instead of looking at stats this would be evident.
Ryan Miller will be available, along with other top goalies, who are a lot more focused than Bryzgalov. This summer will be the best for acquiring a top goalie in a long time, and for a long time to come. Keeping Bryzgalov (which Holmgren will seemingly do, and really has no other option but doing) means the Flyer's fans can look forward to a top draft pick again in 2014. Maybe, that's not such a bad thing? That is a good way to get great young talent.

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04-19-2013, 11:16 AM
  #95
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He has the option to buy out Bryz, and if he doesn't, the Flyers aren't doomed to miss the playoffs next season.

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04-19-2013, 11:18 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Ryan Miller will be available, along with other top goalies, who are a lot more focused than Bryzgalov. This summer will be the best for acquiring a top goalie in a long time, and for a long time to come. Keeping Bryzgalov (which Holmgren will seemingly do, and really has no other option but doing) means the Flyer's fans can look forward to a top draft pick again in 2014. Maybe, that's not such a bad thing? That is a good way to get great young talent.
Or he can rebuild his defensive core and the team will do fine? Your doomsday hypothetical crap is so corny. I don't know why everyone thinks we live in this hyperbolic version of reality where Holmgren only has 2 choices on how to deal with Bryzgalov's stats.

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04-19-2013, 11:20 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
He has the option to buy out Bryz, and if he doesn't, the Flyers aren't doomed to miss the playoffs next season.
Here is the problem for Holmgren:

Buy out Bryzgalov; owner is pissed at the big cheque = Holmgren is fired.
Keep Bryzgalov; team misses play-offs again; owner is pissed = Holmgren is fired.

Will Brian Burke be the next GM of the Flyers in the summer of 2014, or sooner?

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04-19-2013, 11:22 AM
  #98
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Fun topic. But in my world , Snyder does not chuck 30mil dollars of his hard earned money out the window to buy out Bryz in the first place.

Give a guy 30mil bucks for free because he sucked? Its so insulting I cannot even imagine it. Would you give some guy 30mil bucks who wasted your time?

Even if he somehow stomachs this, he then goes out and takes on another albatross contract in Luongo ? I have no idea what the Philadelphia media would do with a scenario such as this but I can guarantee you 'absurd ' and 'mockery' will probably be included in the articles.

So forget it. Bryz does not get bought out. The only way he gets out of philly is if Holmgrem is willing to trade him for another headcase with a similar contract so they both get fresh starts.

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04-19-2013, 11:30 AM
  #99
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Fun topic. But in my world , Snyder does not chuck 30mil dollars of his hard earned money out the window to buy out Bryz in the first place.

Give a guy 30mil bucks for free because he sucked? Its so insulting I cannot even imagine it. Would you give some guy 30mil bucks who wasted your time?

Even if he somehow stomachs this, he then goes out and takes on another albatross contract in Luongo ? I have no idea what the Philadelphia media would do with a scenario such as this but I can guarantee you 'absurd ' and 'mockery' will probably be included in the articles.

So forget it. Bryz does not get bought out. The only way he gets out of philly is if Holmgrem is willing to trade him for another headcase with a similar contract so they both get fresh starts.
The buyout would be roughly $23 million over the next decade and a half. I believe Snider spent more money than that to get out of Chris Webber's NBA contract a year and a half early.

I'm not saying it will happen by any stretch--but money doesn't have the same meaning to Mr. Snider as you or I, and if he believes--or is convinced--that its the difference between winning and not winning a cup before he dies, he'll cut the check. (After all, by nearly every account, he's at least as much to blame for the Bryzgalov signing as Holmgren).

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04-19-2013, 11:36 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Ryan Miller will be available, along with other top goalies, who are a lot more focused than Bryzgalov. This summer will be the best for acquiring a top goalie in a long time, and for a long time to come. Keeping Bryzgalov (which Holmgren will seemingly do, and really has no other option but doing) means the Flyer's fans can look forward to a top draft pick again in 2014. Maybe, that's not such a bad thing? That is a good way to get great young talent.
Why are you so convinced that if Bryz is on the team the Flyers will do poorly? Do you think Holmgren won't do anything to improve the rest of the team? This is Homer we're talking about; the guy is ridiculously active, sometimes to his detriment.

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