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Old
04-19-2013, 09:46 AM
  #501
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
We will have to agree to disagree then because I am not sure how you can put Prust on the same level as Clowe.
Do you think Prust is overpaid in Montreal? I do.

I agree with your above description of Clowe, i also agree that the Rangers need his toughness, but I disagree with the 4M figure, anything more than 3M for more than 3 years is an overpayment IMO.

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04-19-2013, 09:51 AM
  #502
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Do you think Prust is overpaid in Montreal? I do.

I agree with your above description of Clowe, i also agree that the Rangers need his toughness, but I disagree with the 4M figure, anything more than 3M for more than 3 years is an overpayment IMO.
I think all UFA's are overpaid. That is the nature of the beast. Would I take Prust on this team right now over Asham and Pyatt. Hell yes. Teams make choices.

Would I rather have Clowe than Boyle and Pyatt? Yes. Especially with the addition of Brassard and the maturation of some prospects like Hrivik, Thomas, Kreider, Miller, Lindberg, and Fast.

I would do 3-4 years @ 3.5-4 million/season

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04-19-2013, 09:54 AM
  #503
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Neil is on pace for 24 points over 82 games as well as over 200 penalty minutes.

Clowe is on pace for 12 more points over 82 games.

Neil took 3 years at a 1.9M cap hit
Clowe should be in the same ballpark

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04-19-2013, 10:09 AM
  #504
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So far, Clowe has been the least effective of the new additions. Hopefully he picks it up come playoff time.

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04-19-2013, 10:55 AM
  #505
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
yea I know, like when he got into the play on the boards and behind the net to set Zucc up for the 3rd Goal? I was at home, and I caught that one.
Oh please. He came on the ice and was able to skate around tired panthers players. Of course he looked great there. And I refuse to believe he banked that pass off the net on purpose to get it to Zucc.

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04-19-2013, 11:32 AM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
Neil is on pace for 24 points over 82 games as well as over 200 penalty minutes.

Clowe is on pace for 12 more points over 82 games.

Neil took 3 years at a 1.9M cap hit
Clowe should be in the same ballpark
to be fair you gotta look at their whole body of work. Clowe is not defined by this 1 year...

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04-19-2013, 11:40 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
to be fair you gotta look at their whole body of work. Clowe is not defined by this 1 year...
So do we say the same for Richards? Did we say the same for Drury? Clowe is on the wrong side of 30, getting slower and less effective. The past is the past.

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04-19-2013, 11:58 AM
  #508
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
to be fair you gotta look at their whole body of work. Clowe is not defined by this 1 year...
He has been declining in production for 3 straight years.

I am not going to make the case that he will continue to decline as rapidly as he has over those years, but I think I could make a case that it is more likely he stagnates near his current production level PPG or decline slightly from it, rather than he improves upon it.

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04-19-2013, 12:15 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
He has been declining in production for 3 straight years.

I am not going to make the case that he will continue to decline as rapidly as he has over those years, but I think I could make a case that it is more likely he stagnates near his current production level PPG or decline slightly from it, rather than he improves upon it.
He had a pretty bad shoulder injury which he played through earlier in the year. For a guy who plays the way he does, that severely hurts his production.

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04-19-2013, 12:40 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
He had a pretty bad shoulder injury which he played through earlier in the year. For a guy who plays the way he does, that severely hurts his production.
You mean on March 16th against the Kings where he had 9 points in 24 games leading up to it, a .375 PPG?

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04-19-2013, 12:50 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
You mean on March 16th against the Kings where he had 9 points in 24 games leading up to it, a .375 PPG?
No. It was prior to that I believe

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04-19-2013, 01:26 PM
  #512
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Well how long has he been playing through it then?

If he's been hurt since his 62 point season in 2010-11 and that has caused his production to drop to this current day, that does not seem like a very good reason to resign him.

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04-19-2013, 01:27 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
Well how long has he been playing through it then?

If he's been hurt since his 62 point season in 2010-11 and that has caused his production to drop to this current day, that does not seem like a very good reason to resign him.
He was hurt pretty close to the beginning of the season. He refused to sit and wanted to play to help the team, which he did, in other ways than scoring. They eventually made him sit for a few games to rest and recover and he came back playing much better and less timid than before.

For a guy who plays such a physical game, having a shoulder injury is debilitating. Hell, Gaborik, who doesn't hit anyone, saw his game drop when he had one.

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04-19-2013, 01:42 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
He was hurt pretty close to the beginning of the season. He refused to sit and wanted to play to help the team, which he did, in other ways than scoring. They eventually made him sit for a few games to rest and recover and he came back playing much better and less timid than before.

For a guy who plays such a physical game, having a shoulder injury is debilitating. Hell, Gaborik, who doesn't hit anyone, saw his game drop when he had one.

Then so why the drop from the 62 points in 75 games to the 45 points in 76 games in the years before that?

And if this injury is bad enough that it caused him some troubles, is it all healed now?

Are they going to sign someone who now has a degenerative shoulder problem?

Does he require an operation for it to be fully healed? If so what is the time table for him to heal after that?

The most pertinent question is probably, why do we have to assume Clowe will go back to playing like he did instead of assuming what we are seeing, is what he is, and will continue to be?

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04-19-2013, 01:43 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Oh please. He came on the ice and was able to skate around tired panthers players. Of course he looked great there. And I refuse to believe he banked that pass off the net on purpose to get it to Zucc.
tired panthers... Yup. You refuse to believe it, yet he did it.

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04-19-2013, 01:51 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
Then so why the drop from the 62 points in 75 games to the 45 points in 76 games in the years before that?

And if this injury is bad enough that it caused him some troubles, is it all healed now?

Are they going to sign someone who now has a degenerative shoulder problem?

Does he require an operation for it to be fully healed? If so what is the time table for him to heal after that?

The most pertinent question is probably, why do we have to assume Clowe will go back to playing like he did instead of assuming what we are seeing, is what he is, and will continue to be?
The Rangers will have the info on his shoulder. I, obviously, do not.

You don't have to assume anything. Look at his point totals with the Rangers.

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04-19-2013, 01:52 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
tired panthers... Yup. You refuse to believe it, yet he did it.
Ha believe what Nik? The facts? The rangers had them pinned. Pinned so much that Pyatt was able to get off the ice for Clowe to come on the ice. Right when he came off the bench he beat panthers to the loose puck that he knocked down out of mid air and worked the puck back down low. Beat them in the corner and then due to inexperience as well as being fatigued, two panthers went to clowe leaving zucc wide open in front. Don't be so naive. Clowe is a 3rd liner. I said it before the trade, said it all year. He is slower and aging. He is not as effective. I hope he can step it up for the rest of the season and playoff push.

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04-19-2013, 01:55 PM
  #518
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Ha believe what Nik? The facts? The rangers had them pinned. Pinned so much that Pyatt was able to get off the ice for Clowe to come on the ice. Right when he came off the bench he beat panthers to the loose puck that he knocked down out of mid air and worked the puck back down low. Beat them in the corner and then due to inexperience as well as being fatigued, two panthers went to clowe leaving zucc wide open in front. Don't be so naive. Clowe is a 3rd liner. I said it before the trade, said it all year. He is slower and aging. He is not as effective. I hope he can step it up for the rest of the season and playoff push.
Do other players not get credit for good plays and points when they have tired guys on the ice? I must have missed the part where the NHL puts a * next to those points.

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04-19-2013, 01:58 PM
  #519
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I have a feeling his next contract is going to be bad. Gotta imagine San Jose's management saw the writing on the wall the last couple of years. Lot of mileage on that hockey player.

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04-19-2013, 02:01 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Ha believe what Nik? The facts? The rangers had them pinned. Pinned so much that Pyatt was able to get off the ice for Clowe to come on the ice. Right when he came off the bench he beat panthers to the loose puck that he knocked down out of mid air and worked the puck back down low. Beat them in the corner and then due to inexperience as well as being fatigued, two panthers went to clowe leaving zucc wide open in front. Don't be so naive. Clowe is a 3rd liner. I said it before the trade, said it all year. He is slower and aging. He is not as effective. I hope he can step it up for the rest of the season and playoff push.
i watched it. im not saying he skated end to end and roofed a back hander past clemenson, just that he help produce a goal on a shift, using his skillset. The third goal was pretty important last night.

please pardon my naiveté. you go ahead explaining more reasons why it was the equivalent of an empty net goal...

Clowe is NOT a 3rd liner, but his play has dropped. I see it. i'm not blind. If he's not producing i don't want him here as much as the next guy. I wouldn't go higher than 3.5 per, and wouldn't want him here longer than 2 yrs

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04-19-2013, 03:02 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
The Rangers will have the info on his shoulder. I, obviously, do not.

You don't have to assume anything. Look at his point totals with the Rangers.
Pointless in 5 out of 7 games.

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04-19-2013, 05:06 PM
  #522
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I think Clowe's value will become more evident in the playoffs (assuming we make it) when the games tighten up and physicality/blocking shots/toughness is more important. Let's see how he does in the post season before coming up with a number for resigning him.

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04-19-2013, 05:06 PM
  #523
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Sharks fan and Clowe fan here in peace.

Clowe goes through stretches where:

1.) he goes to the dirty places and does the hard things that get him goals.

2.) starts to think he's a sniper/pure goal scorer and forgets #1. At this point he tries end to ends and turns the puck over at the blue line a _LOT_

3.) he decends into a funk that you can feel all the way at home sitting in your recliner

4.) suddenly the light comes on and he goes back to #1

rinse and repeat.

He's one of my favorite players and when he plays the game he was born to play, he's a valuable member of any team.

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04-19-2013, 05:36 PM
  #524
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Originally Posted by zuckera1 View Post
I think Clowe's value will become more evident in the playoffs (assuming we make it) when the games tighten up and physicality/blocking shots/toughness is more important. Let's see how he does in the post season before coming up with a number for resigning him.
This has been my thought/hope about Clowe since the rumors about his acquisition started. I think he will be a more valuable asset than Gaborik was once the post season begins. If that turns out to be true, how much is that worth?

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04-20-2013, 01:30 AM
  #525
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Do other players not get credit for good plays and points when they have tired guys on the ice? I must have missed the part where the NHL puts a * next to those points.
That was not the point and you know it. We were discussing Clowe's flaws. I was bringing perspective into it. If Stepan were to do that, I wouldn't be discussing that play because Stepan has been relatively productive all year. Clowe has not stood out much since coming here. Played well in his first couple games vs Pittsburgh. But he has looked even slower than his usual self. I'm not even discussing that from an offensive standpoint. I'm looking at it in the sense that he is too slow to get in and finish a check; by the time he's there it'd be a late hit and/or the play is gone already. That is just not efficient for the type of player he is and what you expect. Yeah he did a good job on the play against Florida to get that goal. But my point was you can't look at that play to determine his overall play.
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
i watched it. im not saying he skated end to end and roofed a back hander past clemenson, just that he help produce a goal on a shift, using his skillset. The third goal was pretty important last night.

please pardon my naiveté. you go ahead explaining more reasons why it was the equivalent of an empty net goal...

Clowe is NOT a 3rd liner, but his play has dropped. I see it. i'm not blind. If he's not producing i don't want him here as much as the next guy. I wouldn't go higher than 3.5 per, and wouldn't want him here longer than 2 yrs
Again, what I was saying was you can't look at that play/shift, point to that and tell me yeah he is playing well and effectively...because he is not. I've seen Clowe play over the years. He's better than that. I think we gave up a lot for the player he IS right NOW. SJ fans will disagree. Three draft picks in rounds 2-3 is a lot. Especially for this organization which has had recent success in those rounds. Clowe is a 3rd liner, if you can't see that I'm sorry. Again, on the wrong side of 30, getting slower, and less effective in his all around game. He should get $3 million per year. He can still fight and play a smash mouth game but you don't pay those players north of $3.5 million.


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