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Rumors & Proposals Thread Vol. 15 | Oilers Pick 7th OV

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Old
04-19-2013, 11:00 AM
  #101
oilers89
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Originally Posted by Koto View Post
no, as far as the blues are concerned theyre getting two downgrades for an inconsistent prospect.
you mean... as far as you are concerned. Blues will have salary trouble they have 4-6 solid RFAs to resign.

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04-19-2013, 11:02 AM
  #102
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No....no he is not. What the heck have you been watching this year? He has regressed and looks terrible half the time. He is very very inconsistent.
I have to agree on this one. Petry looked great at times LAST year. This year, he has really looked lost and making a lot of bad plays. Not sure what has happened.

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Old
04-19-2013, 11:02 AM
  #103
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you mean... as far as you are concerned. Blues will have salary trouble they have 4-6 solid RFAs to resign.
no....go propose it on the main board youll get crucified.


they dont like gagner for berglund, and they believe shattenkirk is a top pairing Dman close to petro.

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Old
04-19-2013, 11:05 AM
  #104
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I feel like our management and pro scouting are a little slow-on-the-uptake with these kinds of things... They still believe Lucic is the prototype savior built specifically for this club... They see something in 2009 and its still in the forefront of their decision making in 2013.... I think that is where a lot of the Tambellini failed signings came from. We need a pro scouting staff that is on their toes.

In the offseason, I believe that our management will be willing to give up a lot for Lucic, and therefor they might get him.

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Old
04-19-2013, 11:05 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by dyzfunctioned View Post
Can't believe how many posts advise/support doing any of the following:

1) Buying out Horcoff and basically assuming Lander can fill his role
2) Buying out Nick Schultz when this team is already about 2 NHL-caliber d-men short of a full roster
3) Trading Gagner ++ or whatever other package for Keith Yandle, who BTW is not only extremely soft, but is by no means a #1 d-man. He receives nearly 60% O-zone starts and has a negative zone start differential, as well as being last amongst PHX d-men in CorsiRelQOC. I'm all on board with bringing him in as a #3 d-man but at the cost of Gagner + Paajarvi or whatever else people are offering, hell no.
4) Shelling out huge money/term for players that "need a change of scenery" like Clarkson, Horton, etc.
5) And building upon 4), assuming high-demand UFA's will come to EDM for affordable contracts.

/end rant

Disagree with most of what you say..

You're saying:

Can't/won't buyout a 5.5m 3rd line player that could easily be replaced by a 1.5m UFA (see Lapierre)..
Need to keep a 3.5m 3rd pairing defenceman..
Can't trade a soft, defensively weak 2nd line C..
Can't/won't sign free agents..

So, essentially what you seem to be saying is the same as Tambo...Gotcha..

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Old
04-19-2013, 11:06 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Koto View Post
no....go propose it on the main board youll get crucified.


they dont like gagner for berglund, and they believe shattenkirk is a top pairing Dman close to petro.
who cares what the main bored thinks, just cause they would agree or disagree doesn't mean it would happen or not happen.

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Old
04-19-2013, 11:26 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Oilfan2 View Post
Disagree with most of what you say..

You're saying:

Can't/won't buyout a 5.5m 3rd line player that could easily be replaced by a 1.5m UFA (see Lapierre)..
Need to keep a 3.5m 3rd pairing defenceman..
Can't trade a soft, defensively weak 2nd line C..
Can't/won't sign free agents..

So, essentially what you seem to be saying is the same as Tambo...Gotcha..
Let's see...

Horcoff's contract is done in two years and he is arguably our only effective bottom-6 player. Secondly, you really think Lapierre chooses to leave VAN and sign in EDM over staying with the Canucks? Now that's some funny ****.

And I suppose you think Fistric/Potter/Klefbom/Marincin/whoever else is just going to step in and be a better option than Schultz? Not to mention Schultz's contract ends after next season.

You propose trading Gagner and having exactly who fill that #2 slot? Oh right, I forgot - you think Weiss will sign with EDM for $4M a year. He's one of the top UFA available this year and has expressed a desire to re-sign with Florida. Not only that, but if he hits the free market, he'll sure as hell get more than $4M. Let's see, last year Olli Jokinen was signed for 2 years at $4.5M... so by your logic, Weiss is less desireable than Jokinen? Weiss is commanding $5M+ at a minimum, and that would be taking a hometown discount... to come to EDM? We'd be lucky to get him under $6M.

Where did I say I was against signing free agents? I said handing out a contract paying 5M+ a year for guys like Clarkson and Horton would be an awful decision, unless it were on one year terms.

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Old
04-19-2013, 11:36 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by dyzfunctioned View Post
Let's see...

Horcoff's contract is done in two years and he is arguably our only effective bottom-6 player.
That is not saying much at all. He's not a good player and is easily replaced at a much lower salary. However he is part of the buddy network so he is safe.

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Old
04-19-2013, 11:52 AM
  #109
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That is not saying much at all. He's not a good player and is easily replaced at a much lower salary. However he is part of the buddy network so he is safe.
No one is denying he's overpaid. But he plays against the top competition (and largely comes out on top), plays ridiculous PK minutes, etc. He's the only player in our bottom-6 to play more than 20 games and come out with a positive CorsiRelQOC. The only one.

Find me someone who does everything he does that will actually come play in EDM? Because VandeVelde, Lander, etc. aren't near as effective as him. Lapierre isn't coming to Edmonton.

If we make a trade for an adequate #3 and #4C, then by all means... but until then we're just dumping a player that actually helps the team.

Contract aside, he's a 35 point bottom-6 player who's effective in the faceoff circle, can play top PK and against the top competition, and is a team leader.

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Old
04-19-2013, 12:07 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Oilfan2 View Post
So you want to retain 5.5m as a 3rd line c? Where are you going to get the money to pay for Hall/Eberle raises, plus add some pieces? I think the bottom six isn't where you spend the largest dollars...What is Horcoff's 5.5m faceoff percentage this year?
oilers do not have cap problems--only the fans have problems with how much he is getting paid

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Old
04-19-2013, 12:11 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
oilers do not have cap problems--only the fans have problems with how much he is getting paid
And we've been bottom of the league for 4 years...and counting with the types of attitudes I've seen here..
Any thoughts to perhaps spending the money correctly and, oh I don't know, actually making the playoffs some day?

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Old
04-19-2013, 12:11 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by dyzfunctioned View Post
No one is denying he's overpaid. But he plays against the top competition (and largely comes out on top), plays ridiculous PK minutes, etc. He's the only player in our bottom-6 to play more than 20 games and come out with a positive CorsiRelQOC. The only one.

Find me someone who does everything he does that will actually come play in EDM? Because VandeVelde, Lander, etc. aren't near as effective as him. Lapierre isn't coming to Edmonton.

If we make a trade for an adequate #3 and #4C, then by all means... but until then we're just dumping a player that actually helps the team.

Contract aside, he's a 35 point bottom-6 player who's effective in the faceoff circle, can play top PK and against the top competition, and is a team leader.
As much as it pains me to say it, I think you're right. Horcoff isn't a good player and he's way overpaid, but the Oilers are a better team with him as the 3rd line C, and there aren't a lot of hot options on the FA front. A better 3rd line C could probably be had through a trade, but then the team is giving up assets for marginal improvement.

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Old
04-19-2013, 12:12 PM
  #113
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Would you guys do this?

To Edm:
Tyler Myers

To Buff:
MPS
Klefbom
2013 1st


Seems like a lot but we get that #1-2 dman for the foreseeable future.

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Old
04-19-2013, 12:15 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Baggers View Post
As much as it pains me to say it, I think you're right. Horcoff isn't a good player and he's way overpaid, but the Oilers are a better team with him as the 3rd line C, and there aren't a lot of hot options on the FA front. A better 3rd line C could probably be had through a trade, but then the team is giving up assets for marginal improvement.
That's my biggest issue with the Horcoff haters - fine, get rid of him. But who the hell realistically replaces his role?

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Old
04-19-2013, 12:15 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by BowDangles View Post
Would you guys do this?

To Edm:
Tyler Myers

To Buff:
MPS
Klefbom
2013 1st


Seems like a lot but we get that #1-2 dman for the foreseeable future.
Myers isn't that good. He's gone down hill every year. In all honesty, Klefbom could end up being the better player, let alone adding a top pick and Paajarvi? Horrible trade.

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Old
04-19-2013, 12:15 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Oilfan2 View Post
And we've been bottom of the league for 4 years...and counting with the types of attitudes I've seen here..
Any thoughts to perhaps spending the money correctly and, oh I don't know, actually making the playoffs some day?
we are not losing all these games because are third line sucks--- we are losing games because the top 6 are not pulling their weight

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04-19-2013, 12:16 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowDangles View Post
Would you guys do this?

To Edm:
Tyler Myers

To Buff:
MPS
Klefbom
2013 1st


Seems like a lot but we get that #1-2 dman for the foreseeable future.
H to the ELL no. I doubt I would trade Klefbom straight up for Myers with that contract and the way he's crapped the bed since signing it.

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Old
04-19-2013, 12:20 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by BowDangles View Post
Would you guys do this?

To Edm:
Tyler Myers

To Buff:
MPS
Klefbom
2013 1st


Seems like a lot but we get that #1-2 dman for the foreseeable future.
I don't see the part where we get a #1-2 Dman.

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Old
04-19-2013, 12:20 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowDangles View Post
Would you guys do this?

To Edm:
Tyler Myers

To Buff:
MPS
Klefbom
2013 1st


Seems like a lot but we get that #1-2 dman for the foreseeable future.
Is there a gun pointed at my head? That's the only way that this goes down.

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Old
04-19-2013, 12:20 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by dyzfunctioned View Post
Can't believe how many posts advise/support doing any of the following:

1) Buying out Horcoff and basically assuming Lander can fill his role
2) Buying out Nick Schultz when this team is already about 2 NHL-caliber d-men short of a full roster
3) Trading Gagner ++ or whatever other package for Keith Yandle, who BTW is not only extremely soft, but is by no means a #1 d-man. He receives nearly 60% O-zone starts and has a negative zone start differential, as well as being last amongst PHX d-men in CorsiRelQOC. I'm all on board with bringing him in as a #3 d-man but at the cost of Gagner + Paajarvi or whatever else people are offering, hell no.
4) Shelling out huge money/term for players that "need a change of scenery" like Clarkson, Horton, etc.
5) And building upon 4), assuming high-demand UFA's will come to EDM for affordable contracts.

/end rant
As much as Horcoff's salary is a sore point, we're better with him than without. Lander will be 13th forward next year. Agreed with most, if not everything you said. We need to find value players, not the flavor of the month guys; solid team guys with predictable, steady performance. Preferably these guys come from winning cultures, have size and professional attitude. Not saying the Yandles, Clarkson, Horton's don't, but while everyone else is hunting whales, we should be chasing sharks. Now if Doughty or Pieterangelo falls into your lap..... duh.

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Old
04-19-2013, 12:21 PM
  #121
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And we've been bottom of the league for 4 years...and counting with the types of attitudes I've seen here..
Any thoughts to perhaps spending the money correctly and, oh I don't know, actually making the playoffs some day?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
we are not losing all these games because are third line sucks--- we are losing games because the top 6 are not pulling their weight
Didn't say that was the reason..If you look back you'll see I speculated on spending the money in the top 6 and reducing the dollars in the bottom but still getting just as good a product or better.
IMO, that's a better use of assets, including the Oiler's dollars.

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Old
04-19-2013, 12:21 PM
  #122
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H to the ELL no. I doubt I would trade Klefbom straight up for Myers with that contract and the way he's crapped the bed since signing it.
His point totals have fell but he still is playing 20-25 minutes a night against top opposition. I could see him striving on the Oilers with their skill up front.

Myers is also only 23 so he is no where near his prime. I would be super surprised if Klefbom became anything close to the player Myers is.

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Old
04-19-2013, 12:25 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Bobblehead View Post
As much as Horcoff's salary is a sore point, we're better with him than without. Lander will be 13th forward next year. Agreed with most, if not everything you said. We need to find value players, not the flavor of the month guys; solid team guys with predictable, steady performance. Preferably these guys come from winning cultures, have size and professional attitude. Not saying the Yandles, Clarkson, Horton's don't, but while everyone else is hunting whales, we should be chasing sharks. Now if Doughty or Pieterangelo falls into your lap..... duh.
Are we really though? Aside from a few games the team won when he came back this year (some people have short term memories), what else have we won? We've lost quite a few games lately and he's still there. We've been losers for the last 4 plus years and he's been there the whole time..At some point you have to decide he's not worth it and use the money for something better, including a change of leadership...

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04-19-2013, 12:45 PM
  #124
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Are we really though? Aside from a few games the team won when he came back this year (some people have short term memories), what else have we won? We've lost quite a few games lately and he's still there. We've been losers for the last 4 plus years and he's been there the whole time..At some point you have to decide he's not worth it and use the money for something better, including a change of leadership...

Without that 'something better' in front of me, my answer is keep him. Until you have Kopitar, Datsyuk, Staal (yeah right) or maybe a Vermette, Filpulla, Bolland (****tty faceoff %), Legwand or even a Zack Smith or Fiddler signed, sealed and delivered you need to keep Horcoff. We have no other reasonable options at this time.

Defensive zone draw, with 30 seconds left and we're up by one..... which one of the 40% faceoff, undersized, defensively questionable centers are you going to send out? Gagner? RNH? Lander?

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Old
04-19-2013, 12:45 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by BowDangles View Post
Would you guys do this?

To Edm:
Tyler Myers

To Buff:
MPS
Klefbom
2013 1st


Seems like a lot but we get that #1-2 dman for the foreseeable future.
Absolutely not. Klefbom or the 1st could easily end up being better considering how much he has regressed.

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