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Rumors & Proposals Thread Vol. 15 | Oilers Pick 7th OV

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Old
04-19-2013, 12:45 PM
  #126
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Surprised at some of the people here that wouldn't be interested in Lucic. Players like him are rare. He might be a tad overpaid and he's having a bad year but wow he would look good in our top 6.

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Old
04-19-2013, 12:48 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Bobblehead View Post
Without that 'something better' in front of me, my answer is keep him. Until you have Kopitar, Datsyuk, Staal (yeah right) or maybe a Vermette, Filpulla, Bolland (****tty faceoff %), Legwand or even a Zack Smith or Fiddler signed, sealed and delivered you need to keep Horcoff. We have no other reasonable options at this time.

Defensive zone draw, with 30 seconds left and we're up by one..... which one of the 40% faceoff, undersized, defensively questionable centers are you going to send out? Gagner? RNH? Lander?
No kidding. The hate Horcoff gets is crazy. If he was paid $3M/year, no one would be complaining. Considering we couldn't even get players to come here over the course of his contract to put us in cap problems, his contract wasn't even an issue.

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Old
04-19-2013, 01:09 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by ponokanocker View Post
No kidding. The hate Horcoff gets is crazy. If he was paid $3M/year, no one would be complaining. Considering we couldn't even get players to come here over the course of his contract to put us in cap problems, his contract wasn't even an issue.
Wasn't is the operative word....Going forward, we need the dollars to shore up other areas of the team so why waste the 2.5m extra we're paying him when it could be added elsewhere..That takes a player from 3.5m up to 6...(Lucic anyone?)..I think that could go a long way to improve the top 6 on this team.
As I said, also time to change the dynamics on this team, including leadership. When Horcoff is gone, Hall becomes the leader, as it should be.

Besides, buying out Horcoff gives him an opportunity to sign with a contender for a reasonable price and they can have him as a 4th line C or whaever...

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04-19-2013, 01:10 PM
  #129
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Spector asking if you'd want the Oilers to make a pitch for Iggy this summer. I made a couple of posts about this yesterday. I don't know about you guys, but am 100% in on this. No joke. 5M per. Two or three years. I think you could get him.

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Old
04-19-2013, 01:13 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Asher View Post
Spector asking if you'd want the Oilers to make a pitch for Iggy this summer. I made a couple of posts about this yesterday. I don't know about you guys, but am 100% in on this. No joke. 5M per. Two or three years. I think you could get him.
I'd probably do it if we couldn't make a trade for Lucic or equivalent..

Hemsky would still have to go though.

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Old
04-19-2013, 01:17 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by ponokanocker View Post
No kidding. The hate Horcoff gets is crazy. If he was paid $3M/year, no one would be complaining. Considering we couldn't even get players to come here over the course of his contract to put us in cap problems, his contract wasn't even an issue.
Even if Horcoff's cap hit was 1 mil he still has to go. He quit on this team years ago and shows no heart. He's the poster boy for this teams failures. Once you let him go you give Hall the C and Yakupov #10. There's options out there to replace him, it's not like we're looking for a #1C.

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Old
04-19-2013, 01:27 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by shogun99 View Post
Even if Horcoff's cap hit was 1 mil he still has to go. He quit on this team years ago and shows no heart. He's the poster boy for this teams failures. Once you let him go you give Hall the C and Yakupov #10. There's options out there to replace him, it's not like we're looking for a #1C.
Poster boys for this teams problems are Hemsky, Belanger, Whitney, Potter.... Horcoff, at least looks like he's trying. The others are soft and very easy to play against. Regardless of whether you're on the ice 15 minutes or 7 minutes we don't make the opponents work for the puck. I think instead of getting rid of Horcoff, you get him some help.... ie try to pluck guys from winning clubs... young-ish veterans like Vermette had success in Ottawa and Phoenix, Filpulla in Detroit, Bolland & Stallberg in Chicago, Boyd Gordon, Talbot in Phi & Pitts. Add players like that. On the back end guys like Roszival, Hjallmarsson, Boyle, Zdlicky, Ference, Girardi.....
let's increase the leadership, and not throw what little we have away.

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04-19-2013, 01:32 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Bobblehead View Post
Without that 'something better' in front of me, my answer is keep him. Until you have Kopitar, Datsyuk, Staal (yeah right) or maybe a Vermette, Filpulla, Bolland (****tty faceoff %), Legwand or even a Zack Smith or Fiddler signed, sealed and delivered you need to keep Horcoff. We have no other reasonable options at this time.

Defensive zone draw, with 30 seconds left and we're up by one..... which one of the 40% faceoff, undersized, defensively questionable centers are you going to send out? Gagner? RNH? Lander?
Someone gets it...

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Old
04-19-2013, 01:49 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by alphahelix View Post
I feel like our management and pro scouting are a little slow-on-the-uptake with these kinds of things... They still believe Lucic is the prototype savior built specifically for this club... They see something in 2009 and its still in the forefront of their decision making in 2013.... I think that is where a lot of the Tambellini failed signings came from. We need a pro scouting staff that is on their toes.

In the offseason, I believe that our management will be willing to give up a lot for Lucic, and therefor they might get him.
This is bang on.

Bottom line - our pro scouting department needs to be improved because the current group has brought us players like Foster, Eager, Belanger, Fristric, Smithson etc. - nobody has come to this team and excelled.

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04-19-2013, 02:20 PM
  #135
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I see that we have to move Hemsky out this year. I still see Hemsky as being worth a 1st round pick. Where do you see this pick and which teams might have interest in him?

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Old
04-19-2013, 02:23 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
I see that we have to move Hemsky out this year. I still see Hemsky as being worth a 1st round pick. Where do you see this pick and which teams might have interest in him?
Hemsky probably won't net a first rounder at the draft. Maybe at next year's deadline, but not at the draft. At the draft he could probably be moved to a team for prospects and a 2nd. The only way I see him being moved for a first is if we take on an albatross contract from a team who is out of compliance buy outs.

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04-19-2013, 02:24 PM
  #137
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So one of the better advance stats guys was on Stauffer today (MC79).

He indicated that the advanced stats that usually indicate success inidicate Ebs and Nuge are having good years and are better than they were last year (and prior for Ebs). Their so called lack of success is due to being unlucky (the rest of the Oiler forwards though aren't very good according to him). He said last year Halls stats said he should have produced more (and of course this year the breakout). He said next year the duo should do much better.

Hopefully the "moves Ebs" crowd or the ones that say he sucks this year heard the interview.

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Old
04-19-2013, 02:25 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Asher View Post
Spector asking if you'd want the Oilers to make a pitch for Iggy this summer. I made a couple of posts about this yesterday. I don't know about you guys, but am 100% in on this. No joke. 5M per. Two or three years. I think you could get him.
Why would Iginla destroy his legacy with the Flames to join the one of the worst teams in the league? Where is the common sense?

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Old
04-19-2013, 02:28 PM
  #139
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I don't see much of a market for Hemsky this year - with the cap going down the takers of a $5M caphit are going to be slim to none.

And yea, there's 0.01% chance Iggy comes here when he left his career team for a shot at the cup.

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Old
04-19-2013, 02:29 PM
  #140
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Why would Iginla destroy his legacy with the Flames to join the one of the worst teams in the league? Where is the common sense?
I could see him thinking about coming here only if he wins a cup with Pittsburgh this year.

Iggy is known to be a family man and he has family in St. Albert if I am not mistaken.

But he would not want to come here if he did not win a cup because the Oilers are still a long way away from the big prize.

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04-19-2013, 02:30 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by BOUNCE View Post
Why would Iginla destroy his legacy with the Flames to join the one of the worst teams in the league? Where is the common sense?
He's an Edmonton guy. Maybe if he wins his cup in Pittsburgh this year he might want to come home. And despite all the crap we've endured these last few years, I still think the Oilers are in a much better spot going forward than Calgary.

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Old
04-19-2013, 02:32 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
So one of the better advance stats guys was on Stauffer today (MC79).

He indicated that the advanced stats that usually indicate success inidicate Ebs and Nuge are having good years and are better than they were last year (and prior for Ebs). Their so called lack of success is due to being unlucky (the rest of the Oiler forwards though aren't very good according to him). He said last year Halls stats said he should have produced more (and of course this year the breakout). He said next year the duo should do much better.

Hopefully the "moves Ebs" crowd or the ones that say he sucks this year heard the interview.
I'm pretty sure most of the people who want to move Eberle have little interest in what the advanced stats have to say.

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Old
04-19-2013, 02:36 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
I see that we have to move Hemsky out this year. I still see Hemsky as being worth a 1st round pick. Where do you see this pick and which teams might have interest in him?
The Devils could use his skill to help their top-6 and PP, the Isles as well, he's cost certainty for them as well as Nashville who lack skill.

I don't know that he's worth a 1st to anyone right now, maybe a bottom-20 1st, but I think it will be more a young-ish player or getting a player who's on the "outs" with that organization.

Maybe from each organization something like

From NYI: Ullstrom and Nilsson (Andres)

From NSH: Halischuk and Bartley

From NJD: Talinder and Loktionov

Maybe.

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Old
04-19-2013, 02:37 PM
  #144
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I'm half joking but would it shock anyone to see MacT hand Bozak a 5 million/year contract?

I know the Oilers chased him when he was a free agent out of college and he's basically Horcoff v2.0.

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Old
04-19-2013, 02:38 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by alphahelix View Post
I feel like our management and pro scouting are a little slow-on-the-uptake with these kinds of things... They still believe Lucic is the prototype savior built specifically for this club... They see something in 2009 and its still in the forefront of their decision making in 2013.... I think that is where a lot of the Tambellini failed signings came from. We need a pro scouting staff that is on their toes.

In the offseason, I believe that our management will be willing to give up a lot for Lucic, and therefor they might get him.
The problem with this is that development is not linear. I understand if we're talking about a 35 year old player, however at 24 years old he's hardly hitting the point of regressing. I wouldn't necessarily want to sell the farm for him, but if you can get him in a reasonable deal, he is EXACTLY the player that we should be trying to get.

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Old
04-19-2013, 02:39 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
I'm half joking but would it shock anyone to see MacT hand Bozak a 5 million/year contract?

I know the Oilers chased him when he was a free agent out of college and he's basically Horcoff v2.0.
Yes, it would shock me. I would hope management has a good enough understanding of the cap situation that they wouldn't be handing out 5 million dollar contracts to players of Bozak's ilk.

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Old
04-19-2013, 02:46 PM
  #147
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Looking ahead to summer 2014, this team is going to have some trouble fitting under the cap if big changes aren't made, especialy if they pay big money for some free agents this summer.

J Shutlz and RNH are going to need proper contracts that summer, and I would think we're looking at 5-6 million for each, at least if they have solid years. Petry, Dubnyk and PRV are going to want raises, and I can't see replacing any of them for cheaper. If PRV is gone, it's probably going to be in a trade for someone more expensive. We'll be relying a lot on Yakupov and Klefbom's entry level deals.

A possible scenario (parenthesis indicate a guess at salary):

Left Wing
Hall 6
PRV (2.5)
? 2
? 1

Right Wing
Yakupov 3.775
Eberle 6
? 2
? 1

Centre
RNH 6
Gagner (5)
Horcoff 5.5
? 1

Defence
Smid 3.5
Petry (3)
J Shutlz (5)
2013 Acquisition (5)
Klefbom 1.275
? 1

Goal
Dubnyk (4)
Backup 1.5

Total: 65.55

We don't know what the cap will be, but that number is probably pushing right against it, maybe over. Hemsky and N Shultz are gone. I don't think we can afford them, and I don't think they'll be missed. The number could be reduced quite a bit if Gagner is replaced by say Monahan and Horcoff gets bought out. Even so, that would still be around 60 million with only a single quality player added this summer. I'm assuming relatively cheap bottom 6 players to fill out the roster as well.

If anyone has hopes of adding 10 million plus in free agent signings this summer, remember that cap hit has to be made up somewhere. Room also has to be left for the 2015 summer, when Klefbom and Yakupov go off ELC, although at least Horcoff will be out of the picture by then. Obviously you never know what the future will bring, but Mac T is going to have to think very hard about every player he signs this summer with a contract longer than a year. I think we should hold on to our first round pick a well, as whoever we pick is going to be a lot cheaper than whoever we trade the pick for.


Last edited by NeutralZone: 04-19-2013 at 02:52 PM.
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Old
04-19-2013, 02:48 PM
  #148
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If the Bruins are looking to trade Lucic, they almost certainly won't get an Eberle level talent back. Benn, Kane, etc. teams almost never move those guys. If Eberle was the asking price, then I would have no problem with MacT hanging up the phone.

I would be willing to go as high as Hemsky + Hartikainen + 1st 2014 + 2nd 2015 for Lucic. Given his play this year, his contract is a bit of a risk, and with the cap dropping Boston's options for trade might be limited. Especially if the rumours that Lucic wants to raise his kid closer to his parents is true.
I really like that deal and Boston gets good value. Lucic would be great, but not parting with Eberle for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacaar View Post
Lucic seems to approaching that point where he's not worth the cash to Boston and they may consider trading him.

The risk is does he wake up when he gets to his new team.

Historically speaking Edmonton has an awful time motivating these types of players and usually their run out of town. I don't like our odds with Lucic and I'd hate to lose any of the top 4 or this draft pick to piss it down the crapper on a player we can't motivate.

Guess that's the risk with Lucic.
It is somewhat of a gamble but with reports he wants to be closer to his family in BC, and that he came to camp out of shape (didn't even skate for 2 months prior to the lockout ending). Both can be fixed and I think he'd motivated to be better next year.

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Old
04-19-2013, 02:57 PM
  #149
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I used to be all about Lucic but having seen some games of his last year and this year I think his skating is the issue. I think that will get highlighted in the west and he would not have much regular season success. He might really help in the playoffs when the game slows down but i dont think he is worth the price to acquire him. I am not interested in players whether it be drafting, free agency or trade that have issues with skating. Go with speed, grit, skill AND ABOVE ALL CONSISTENCY!!!

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04-19-2013, 03:06 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
So one of the better advance stats guys was on Stauffer today (MC79).

He indicated that the advanced stats that usually indicate success inidicate Ebs and Nuge are having good years and are better than they were last year (and prior for Ebs). Their so called lack of success is due to being unlucky (the rest of the Oiler forwards though aren't very good according to him). He said last year Halls stats said he should have produced more (and of course this year the breakout). He said next year the duo should do much better.

Hopefully the "moves Ebs" crowd or the ones that say he sucks this year heard the interview.
Eberle isn't going anywhere unless its Pieterangelo, Karlsson type in return. Was the 'broken finger' confirmed, I've been away for awhile, heard he hurt it, but hadn't seen any confirmation. I know for a fact there are other things going on that affected his performance, especially the last 3 weeks (remember the 'family issue'?). This had a HUGE impact on his season. Remember these guys are human too.

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