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If you had to choose: Trade Schneider or Buy-Out Luongo?

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Old
04-19-2013, 06:11 PM
  #1
Kevin8se7en
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If you had to choose: Trade Schneider or Buy-Out Luongo?

Hypothetically speaking... you're the Nucks GM... and there's no trade for Lou... you can't even give him away... (hypothetically)

Do you trade Schneider for what is likely to be a very nice package?
or
Do you buy-out Luongo and take the cap hit for the next 1000 years?

SEASON SALARY CAP HIT BUYOUT SAVINGS BUYOUT CAP HIT
2013-14 $6,714,000 $5,333,333 $1,502,593 $5,211,407 $121,926
2014-15 $6,714,000 $5,333,333 $1,502,593 $5,211,407 $121,926
2015-16 $6,714,000 $5,333,333 $1,502,593 $5,211,407 $121,926
2016-17 $6,714,000 $5,333,333 $1,502,593 $5,211,407 $121,926
2017-18 $6,714,000 $5,333,333 $1,502,593 $5,211,407 $121,926
2018-19 $3,382,000 $5,333,333 $1,502,593 $1,879,407 $3,453,926
2019-20 $1,618,000 $5,333,333 $1,502,593 $,115,407 $5,217,926
2020-21 $1,000,000 $5,333,333 $1,502,593 -$,502,593 $5,835,926
2021-22 $1,000,000 $5,333,333 $1,502,593 -$,502,593 $5,835,926
2022-23 $0,000,000 $0,000,000 $1,502,593 -$1,502,593 $1,502,593
2023-24 $0,000,000 $0,000,000 $1,502,593 -$1,502,593 $1,502,593
2024-25 $0,000,000 $0,000,000 $1,502,593 -$1,502,593 $1,502,593
2025-26 $0,000,000 $0,000,000 $1,502,593 -$1,502,593 $1,502,593
2026-27 $0,000,000 $0,000,000 $1,502,593 -$1,502,593 $1,502,593
2027-28 $0,000,000 $0,000,000 $1,502,593 -$1,502,593 $1,502,593
2028-29 $0,000,000 $0,000,000 $1,502,593 -$1,502,593 $1,502,593
2029-30 $0,000,000 $0,000,000 $1,502,593 -$1,502,593 $1,502,593
2030-31 $0,000,000 $0,000,000 $1,502,593 -$1,502,593 $1,502,593

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Old
04-19-2013, 06:16 PM
  #2
Burritscold
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trade schnieder, Luongo is still a pretty damn good goalie.

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Old
04-19-2013, 06:20 PM
  #3
blankall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burritscold View Post
trade schnieder, Luongo is still a pretty damn good goalie.
This.

Buyout Luongo = younger goalie, but waste a lot of money.

Trade Schneider = similar goalie situation for 2-3 years, while the Sedins are in their prime. Plus a big piece back for Schneider.

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Old
04-19-2013, 06:21 PM
  #4
TieClark
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From a hockey standpoint you buyout Luongo. However that is a hell of a lot of money to just give away... if I'm the owner I keep Luongo and trade Schneider without hesitation.

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Old
04-19-2013, 06:24 PM
  #5
blankall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
From a hockey standpoint you buyout Luongo. However that is a hell of a lot of money to just give away... if I'm the owner I keep Luongo and trade Schneider without hesitation.
Is Luongo + top six player really worse than Schneider. You also have to assume the team has some kind of internal budget. The money used on a Luongo buyout could be diverted towards player salary, management, other buyouts, scouts, etc...We're talking about 10s of millions of dollars here.

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Old
04-19-2013, 06:25 PM
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Frank Drebin
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Amnesty?

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Old
04-19-2013, 06:26 PM
  #7
ARed
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Luongo is great. After all, Vancouver went to the finals with Luongo..

Luongo + Trade Assets from Schneider >>> Schneider + wasted money

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Old
04-19-2013, 06:26 PM
  #8
Stop Winnin
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I had no clue Luongo's contract was for another 10 years. That's insane...

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Old
04-19-2013, 06:27 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Amnesty?
Yeah the only reason a buyout is even a viable option is the amnesty next summer.

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Old
04-19-2013, 06:29 PM
  #10
Vankiller Whale
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Trade Schneider.

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Old
04-19-2013, 06:30 PM
  #11
DavidBL
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I see a Schneider trade over a buyout. Vancouver would get a better return. Unless they can find a trade for Luongo that has some sort of return that helps the team which up to this point doesn't seem to exist.

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Old
04-19-2013, 06:31 PM
  #12
TieClark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stop Winnin View Post
I had no clue Luongo's contract was for another 10 years. That's insane...
That's why nobody wants him

Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Is Luongo + top six player really worse than Schneider. You also have to assume the team has some kind of internal budget. The money used on a Luongo buyout could be diverted towards player salary, management, other buyouts, scouts, etc...We're talking about 10s of millions of dollars here.
They're going to have some serious trouble fitting under the cap if they're adding some sort of established top 6 forward.

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Old
04-19-2013, 06:33 PM
  #13
Kip96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stop Winnin View Post
I had no clue Luongo's contract was for another 10 years. That's insane...
It's actually "9 years" Probably 6 that he'll actually play

I don't get why that is so hard for people to understand every long term contract is based on the player retiring early

Hossa, Zetterberg, Kovalchuk all have the same type of deals and I never hear a thing about them

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Old
04-19-2013, 06:50 PM
  #14
Stop Winnin
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Originally Posted by Kip96 View Post
It's actually "9 years" Probably 6 that he'll actually play

I don't get why that is so hard for people to understand every long term contract is based on the player retiring early

Hossa, Zetterberg, Kovalchuk all have the same type of deals and I never hear a thing about them
I thought that if a player retired early the team could be held accountable for cap circumvention, in the new CBA anyways.

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Old
04-19-2013, 06:57 PM
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Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stop Winnin View Post
I thought that if a player retired early the team could be held accountable for cap circumvention, in the new CBA anyways.
It turns out to about 2 mil/per for around 3 years in an era where the salary cap will likely be 80+. It's really not as bad as people make it out to be.

And if he gets put on the LTIR, or traded to a cap floor team, then there is no penalty whatsoever.

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Old
04-19-2013, 07:00 PM
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NFITO
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Is this a question for fans or ownership?

As a fan, I don't lose a dime over buying out Luongo. And the buyout cap hit doesn't worry me, as the cap will again continue to increase after next season. As a fan, I'd rather keep the better goalie who's got more prime years left in him, then keep a 34 YO Luongo who's likely not going to be playing at this same level for many more years. Schneider has 7 years before he's even at Luongo's age.

As a fan, I see the long-term benefit of great goaltending outweighing the $$'s paid in a buyout. As a long-time Canuck fan, I've also seen how hard it is to find stable long-term goaltending in this league. I remember the years between McLean and Luongo and the many, many goalies we recylced through that era and how it always hurt the team. I see a young top goalie like Schneider in this system now, and giving that up so ownership can save some money (and ownership that is making more than his buyout on an annual basis) and it doesn't make sense to me to move a guy like Schneider.

Of course Aquillini might have a different take. He's the one that a buyout is going to hurt most. But as a fan, I want certaintly in a position which has historically been the most difficult position to fill for this club. And a 27 YO Schneider who's already playing top-level hockey, gives us much more long-term certaintly than a 34 YO Luongo.

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Old
04-19-2013, 07:19 PM
  #17
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I think they should trade Schneider regardless. The difference in what the two could bring in return is much bigger than the difference in their actual play. Lu+(whatever they get for Schenider) >> Schneider+(whatever they get for Lu).

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04-19-2013, 07:21 PM
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I'd have traded Schneider a couple of years ago when the return would have been much higher. Luongo's buyout is too massive for too long. And with some of the potential deals already leaked any offers in the future for Luongo will only be worse not better.

Luongo's on the top end of NHL goalies still. A whole team blows a chance to win a Stanley Cup not just one goalie.

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Old
04-19-2013, 07:25 PM
  #19
Mansfield
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
This.

Buyout Luongo = younger goalie, but waste a lot of money.

Trade Schneider = similar goalie situation for 2-3 years, while the Sedins are in their prime. Plus a big piece back for Schneider.
yeah if push came to shove (which it probably won't) trading Schneider makes more sense.

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Old
04-19-2013, 07:34 PM
  #20
blankall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
That's why nobody wants him


They're going to have some serious trouble fitting under the cap if they're adding some sort of established top 6 forward.

For Schneider they could get a top 6 forward still within his RFA period and on a reduced salary.

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Old
04-19-2013, 07:43 PM
  #21
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There is no cap hit penalty if the team amnesty's Lou. But as was pointed out, that money will have to come from somewhere's. So it will effect the team.

I think in this hypothetical scenario you trade Schnieder and run with Bobby Lou. He's still got 5 plus years of great goaltending left in the tank.

But, I also think that the, albeit hypothetical, statement that you can't even give Louongo away is flawed. If all Vancouver wanted was a 7th round pick than someone would bite. And with the structure of the new CBA if the Canucks were willing to absorb a million dollars a season of his cap hit than Luongo will a very attractive option for someone out there.

Real world - I take Schnieder - Luongo's salary over Luongo + (Schnieder's return every day)

Also, goalie market could be diluted this summer with Miller, Bernier, and Luongo all speculated at being shopped.

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Old
04-19-2013, 07:50 PM
  #22
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Ideally the contracts expire when the team core "expires". In my mind, this is what makes the Luongo contract so bad.

Once the Sedin's and Kesler and the rest decide to hang 'em up, leave, or they are just not good enough to contend, you can't have 8 more years remaining for an equally aging goaltender. It's just bad economics. "Gillis you suck!" bad!

While it's never something you want management to plan around, the death of an era is a real thing, one which all teams not blessed with being a UFA attractive market have to deal with. For Vancouver, their UFA attractiveness comes solely because of their success (As all Canadian cities do).

The point is, Schneider is at a perfect stage where when his contract expires the team has that beautiful thing called an "option" to re-sign him or deal him, depending on how the franchise looks at that point. Luongo? Well, you're stuck with him no matter what.

So for me it comes down to choice, as I see them as equally talented goaltenders who you can't really go wrong either way with (Well... jury's out on Schneider still). And in that sense, I trade Lu's ass last year, or buy him out if it came down to it. That cap space is mighty important for a franchise losing its grip on contention.

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Old
04-19-2013, 07:54 PM
  #23
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The latter. It would be the right move, and the Canucks have more than enough money to make it happen.

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Old
04-19-2013, 07:59 PM
  #24
Ron C.
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On a side note, the Sabres would love Schneider. Vancouver needs to keep Luongo.

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Old
04-19-2013, 09:28 PM
  #25
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Use the amnesty on Luongo.

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