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Old
04-19-2013, 03:20 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I'll replace him with Drew Stafford. Cheaper and is just as useless as a 20 goal scorer.
Ah yes, because he has size! (that he doesn't use). Also I heard he is a great defensive forward too... right?... right? I might be thinking of someone else

I'm all for upgrading gionta, but not for a floating 20 goal scorer with size, who doesn't contribute anything to the team when he isn't scoring.

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04-19-2013, 03:22 PM
  #152
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Gionta scores goal and backchecks.

Not sure what's wrong with him. I'm more concerned about Pacioretty, Desharnais, Markov, Ryder, Moen, Bouillon, Price, Bourque's play as of late.

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04-19-2013, 03:24 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
Ah yes, because he has size! (that he doesn't use). Also I heard he is a great defensive forward too... right?... right? I might be thinking of someone else

I'm all for upgrading gionta, but not for a floating 20 goal scorer with size, who doesn't contribute anything to the team when he isn't scoring.
I was just making a point..

5 million for Gionta simply because he "scores". Does not mean that he's impossible to upgrade. He needs to be upgraded. On free agency, through the draft, whatever, but he's not a guy we should be playing in all the critical situations.

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04-19-2013, 03:36 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I was just making a point..

5 million for Gionta simply because he "scores". Does not mean that he's impossible to upgrade. He needs to be upgraded. On free agency, through the draft, whatever, but he's not a guy we should be playing in all the critical situations.
The thing is that people want to trade him only because he's small, and well kind of useless on an offensive rush (both very reasonable arguments). The problems is that there really isn't many players that would be able to replace his defense, leadership, speed and (somehow) goals.

The only player on the UFA market that can really add size and possibly help the team at the same level as gionta (contributing different intangibles obviously) would be clowe imo. You lose speed, defense, goal scoring. You gain toughness, forcheck and size. Other than him I don't really see any available replacements. Gio brings more to the table than we give him credit for.

Maybe bergy can pull off some miracles though. Who knows

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04-19-2013, 03:45 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
Ah yes, because he has size! (that he doesn't use). Also I heard he is a great defensive forward too... right?... right? I might be thinking of someone else

I'm all for upgrading gionta, but not for a floating 20 goal scorer with size, who doesn't contribute anything to the team when he isn't scoring.
Given the opportunity-cost of playing that undersized smurf with our best centre game-in game-out, giving him tons of PP time and basically the keys to the castle: I'm not entirely sure that other players wouldn't match his production at a fraction of his cost and ice-time. How much is defensive awareness and "work ethic" worth?

If he turns his game around in the playoffs, sure. But it's not a work ethic thing, we can all agree that he hustles. It's his vision and puck skills that are lacking, and given his size it just makes for a very rotten looking contract and player who's getting large minutes with a very good centre and producing at an unacceptable rate.

Not to mention that losing Ryder is directly because we can't allocate that cap space for Gionta - now, honestly, who has been more important to the success of this team?

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04-19-2013, 03:48 PM
  #156
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Maybe bergy can pull off some miracles though. Who knows
Having seen Bergy in action, to deal with the Gionta situation he'll probably just extend Bouillon another year.

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04-19-2013, 03:54 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I was just making a point..

5 million for Gionta simply because he "scores". Does not mean that he's impossible to upgrade. He needs to be upgraded. On free agency, through the draft, whatever, but he's not a guy we should be playing in all the critical situations.
Its not so much the goals that are hard to replace as the degree to which Gionta consistently out scores his opponents. And Gionta doesn't play powder-puff minutes either. Which has been the case with Gio his entire time in MTL, Gionta's presence correlates strongly with success.


There is no need to replace Gionta currently to improve the team, his kind of two-way winger is probably not available. The need for a replacement is only that he'll age out of being a contributor not to long from now.

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04-19-2013, 04:08 PM
  #158
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Of all the things to worry about, people are still talking about Gionta?

I swear, some of you care more about your Leaf/Bruins fan friends calling the Habs smurfs than you do about hockey.

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04-19-2013, 04:12 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I'll replace him with Drew Stafford. Cheaper and is just as useless as a 20 goal scorer.
Oh boy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I was just making a point..

5 million for Gionta simply because he "scores". Does not mean that he's impossible to upgrade. He needs to be upgraded. On free agency, through the draft, whatever, but he's not a guy we should be playing in all the critical situations.
I've asked you for names to replace him and the best you came up with is Stafford.

YOU are saying that all he does is score. The truth is that he's a leader (team captain), a veteran with experience who produces as much during the regular season as in the playoffs, he's fast, and he's reliable defensively.

If you try to replace all of that, you'll pay for it and that's my point.

I swear people are dissing Gionta without thinking...

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04-19-2013, 04:21 PM
  #160
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Of all the things to worry about, people are still talking about Gionta?

I swear, some of you care more about your Leaf/Bruins fan friends calling the Habs smurfs than you do about hockey.
Big-****ing-go.

The only problem with Gionta is that he makes 1.5 to 2 more millions than he should.

But you'd have to think that his contract would be a nuisance not next year, but the other year. 14-15. His contract is up at the end of 13-14.

Could we get something for him next season, or even this summer, in case there's an opening for whatever improvement? Sure.

But until then, I'm not sure he's the problem. Besides, it's not like we're getting Iginla next season.

Yes, he's overpriced, and yes, he must be evaluated as per his contract. But will he really be taking the place of a better player? Not so sure.

EDIT : This team isn't signing Ribeiro, Jagr, Koivu or Boyes, and the only possible player who might be somewhat expansive is Clarkson.


Last edited by MXD: 04-19-2013 at 04:26 PM.
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04-19-2013, 04:25 PM
  #161
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YOU are saying that all he does is score. The truth is that he's a leader (team captain), a veteran with experience who produces as much during the regular season as in the playoffs, he's fast, and he's reliable defensively.

If you try to replace all of that, you'll pay for it and that's my point.

I swear people are dissing Gionta without thinking...
This is pretty much all that needed to be said about Gionta's game and impact on the team. We KNEW he was going to be an overpaid forward when he first signed here...why talk about it now? It is what it is.

Some people also think that changing a team's captain is like shuffling lines. There's more to it than that and to me Gionta is still a perfect captain for this team.

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04-19-2013, 04:28 PM
  #162
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This is pretty much all that needed to be said about Gionta's game and impact on the team. We KNEW he was going to be an overpaid forward when he first signed here...why talk about it now? It is what it is.

Some people also think that changing a team's captain is like shuffling lines. There's more to it than that and to me Gionta is still a perfect captain for this team.
The only problem (... I should post complete messages) is that... IF... the Habs can acquire an expansive player, Gionta is first on the to-leave list.

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04-19-2013, 06:03 PM
  #163
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If the habs want to stick with 3 offensive lines, I would not be against transitioning him to a 3rd line role, and let his contract ride out.

I still believe he's a useful PP weapon as long as you have him playing around the net for tips and loose pucks. He has a knack for those. Maybe not primary PP material, but still useful.

He's at the stage of his career and in his contract where the transition should be happening soon.

In the meantime, I think this club has way bigger and more immediate issues to deal with than brian gionta.

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04-19-2013, 06:11 PM
  #164
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How people dislike Gionta is beyond me. The guy is a top-notch, 25-30 goal, secondary scorer. He always goes to the dirty areas, to the front of the net, has great chemistry with Plekanec, and plays well in his own zone. He is also very fast, and has many leadership qualities. What is there not to like about this guy? Seriously!

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04-19-2013, 08:57 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
Gionta scores goal and backchecks.

Not sure what's wrong with him. I'm more concerned about Pacioretty, Desharnais, Markov, Ryder, Moen, Bouillon, Price, Bourque's play as of late.
One is our leading scorer while the other is arguably the most important player on this team (along with Subban).

Yea, be very concerned lol

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04-20-2013, 06:19 AM
  #166
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The only problem with Gionta is that he makes 1.5 to 2 more millions than he should.

But you'd have to think that his contract would be a nuisance not next year, but the other year. 14-15. His contract is up at the end of 13-14.

Yes, he's overpriced, and yes, he must be evaluated as per his contract. But will he really be taking the place of a better player? Not so sure.

EDIT : This team isn't signing Ribeiro, Jagr, Koivu or Boyes.
Can you name 3 consistent 26 goal scoters that make $3-3.5m? He isn't over priced, he is pretty much at fair market value.

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04-20-2013, 09:24 AM
  #167
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Can you name 3 consistent 26 goal scoters that make $3-3.5m? He isn't over priced, he is pretty much at fair market value.
Not sure where you're going with this one, as Gionta slowed down, which is mainly the reason his worth is more in the 3.5 range, and that's without tackling the fact that Gionta is a often a Cy Young nominee.

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04-20-2013, 09:31 AM
  #168
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Not sure where you're going with this one, as Gionta slowed down, which is mainly the reason his worth is more in the 3.5 range, and that's without tackling the fact that Gionta is a often a Cy Young nominee.
He's saying can you name 3 25+ goal scorers who make less than $4M? Obviously young RFAs not included.

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04-20-2013, 09:36 AM
  #169
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He's saying can you name 3 25+ goal scorers who make less than $4M? Obviously young RFAs not included.
Not sure where you're going with this one, as Gionta slowed down, which is mainly the reason his worth is more in the 3.5 range, and that's without tackling the fact that Gionta is a often a Cy Young nominee.

In other words, read what I write first, and why I consider the question to be a little tricky to begin with.

I concur that 3 millions per was possibly far fetched, though. Let's just say that 3.5-to-4 make more sense.

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04-20-2013, 09:56 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
How people dislike Gionta is beyond me. The guy is a top-notch, 25-30 goal, secondary scorer. He always goes to the dirty areas, to the front of the net, has great chemistry with Plekanec, and plays well in his own zone. He is also very fast, and has many leadership qualities. What is there not to like about this guy? Seriously!
You're a positive kinda guy, I like your posts but you spewed the same things about Gomez last season. You were wrong then, you're wrong now.

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The guy is a top-notch
No he's not. By all accounts he's been a secondary scorer his entire career. Except for one season.

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25-30 goal
Injured players don't win you games. He's scored 28+29+8+14 goals in his four years with the habs, that amounts to 19.75 goals per year. I know you can prorate and PDO and corsi all the way to the moon but there is virtue in staying injury free. He can't get credit for potentially scoring goals he's never scored. He's a 20-25 goal scorer anyways, he's never broke 30 except for that one season.

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secondary scorer
Agreed

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He always goes to the dirty areas, to the front of the net
He hasn't this season, except for very rare occasions but definitely not consistently. And definitely not effectively. He loses battles all over the ice, just watch the games I'm not making this up.

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has great chemistry with Plekanec
I'd argue that he kills a lot of plays that Pleks makes. They don't seem on the same wavelength at all.

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plays well in his own zone
Agreed

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He is also very fast, and has many leadership qualities.
Agreed. Well he's not Grabner-fast but he's fast and tenacious and good defensively.

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What is there not to like about this guy?
He's a smurf on a team with undersized forwards and a public image of being a weak, soft team. He's a Devil, he's not a Hab and he has no ties to the city (I dunno this really bugs me personally, I don't expect it to bother other people). His wife's name is Harvest and that really bothers me too.

I'm not saying he's a bad hockey player, it just sucks that he's underperforming and has such a high position on the team. You can't bench him, you can't call him out when he deserves it, he gets all the PP time he wants, he gets the best centre we have... and he has a year left on a 5m contract with a NTC.

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04-20-2013, 10:46 AM
  #171
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The only problem (... I should post complete messages) is that... IF... the Habs can acquire an expansive player, Gionta is first on the to-leave list.
Really? I have a few ahead of him, including Kaberle and Bourque...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Not sure where you're going with this one, as Gionta slowed down, which is mainly the reason his worth is more in the 3.5 range, and that's without tackling the fact that Gionta is a often a Cy Young nominee.

In other words, read what I write first, and why I consider the question to be a little tricky to begin with.

I concur that 3 millions per was possibly far fetched, though. Let's just say that 3.5-to-4 make more sense.
How is a player scoring at a pace of 26G per season and good defensively "slowing down"?!? Geeshhh people, think before you make up your mind on something...

And again, no one here has come up with a list of players who were UFA eligible, 25-30 goals a season, paid less than Gionta. We're still waiting and I have a feeling that we'll be waiting a while.

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04-20-2013, 10:48 AM
  #172
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Not sure where you're going with this one, as Gionta slowed down, which is mainly the reason his worth is more in the 3.5 range, and that's without tackling the fact that Gionta is a often a Cy Young nominee.

In other words, read what I write first, and why I consider the question to be a little tricky to begin with.

I concur that 3 millions per was possibly far fetched, though. Let's just say that 3.5-to-4 make more sense.
If Gionta was a UFA, I think every team would take him at $4.5m on a one year deal if they wanted to compete and had the cap space.

He isn't overpaid. I think a lot of teams that wanted to compete would take him at $5m because of the intangibles and Cup experience.

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04-20-2013, 11:51 AM
  #173
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The thing is that people want to trade him only because he's small, and well kind of useless on an offensive rush (both very reasonable arguments). The problems is that there really isn't many players that would be able to replace his defense, leadership, speed and (somehow) goals.

The only player on the UFA market that can really add size and possibly help the team at the same level as gionta (contributing different intangibles obviously) would be clowe imo. You lose speed, defense, goal scoring. You gain toughness, forcheck and size. Other than him I don't really see any available replacements. Gio brings more to the table than we give him credit for.

Maybe bergy can pull off some miracles though. Who knows
agreed, problem #1 is this

clowe will want 5 mil , and thats the problem with UFA`s grossly overpaid

JUST SAY NO , we have a short 5 mil in gio dontr make the same mistake with a bigger Clowe who cant skate and will not be effective after 2 years

WALK AWAY FROM THIS NONSENSE , how many Gio`s , Cammy, etc... fk ups do we need , wait 1 month into free agency and get someone on the cheap

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04-20-2013, 11:56 AM
  #174
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Really? I have a few ahead of him, including Kaberle and Bourque...


How is a player scoring at a pace of 26G per season and good defensively "slowing down"?!? Geeshhh people, think before you make up your mind on something...

And again, no one here has come up with a list of players who were UFA eligible, 25-30 goals a season, paid less than Gionta. We're still waiting and I have a feeling that we'll be waiting a while.
Gionta is indeed slowing down in the litteral sense, unless you haven't watched any game this season.

Mind you, he's still far from slow.

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04-20-2013, 11:56 AM
  #175
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If Gionta was a UFA, I think every team would take him at $4.5m on a one year deal if they wanted to compete and had the cap space.

He isn't overpaid. I think a lot of teams that wanted to compete would take him at $5m because of the intangibles and Cup experience.
one year you are correct

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