HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

PGT: Rangers @ Sabres 4/19/13

View Poll Results: 3 Stars
Clowe 22 22.68%
Brassard 10 10.31%
Nash 35 36.08%
Zuccarrello 13 13.40%
Richards 87 89.69%
Pyatt 2 2.06%
Hagelin 28 28.87%
Stepan 32 32.99%
Callahan 19 19.59%
Kreider 3 3.09%
Asham 0 0%
Powe 0 0%
McDonagh 8 8.25%
Girardi 0 0%
Del Zotto 1 1.03%
Stralman 5 5.15%
Moore 5 5.15%
Eminger 1 1.03%
Lundqvist 7 7.22%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-20-2013, 10:09 AM
  #226
zuckera1
#35
 
zuckera1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
That's because the team wins/loses despite Torts. Our defense has been all over the place this year. We have barely controlled the neutral zone. We are weak along the boards and with our forecheck. Less and less players are committing to the ridiculous "throw your body in front of the puck" sentiment.

He's getting less credit this year because he deserves less credit. The team starts slow and the team's play is clearly not an indication of the system he supports.

The theory that Torts was disrespecting Hank is quite narrow minded on its own. It was 8-3. No need to drive up the score even more. He's got to protect his players, running up the score could have potentially warranted Buffalo's enforcers to take runs at our players. If we had scored and someone took a run at Nash or Step and injured them for the rest of the season, this fan base would skewer Torts for not putting the 4th line out. With some people on this board, you just can't win.

But as for your "stop finding ways to criticize Torts" sentiment... the list is endless. His system is idiotic, in my opinion. He employs little-to-no logic when making decisions. He constantly meddles with lines, especially (it seems like) when they are beginning to work. And he's too stubborn for his own good.

He's a good guy. Perfect for a team of under achievers that need motivation. But we're past that stage now and he either can't or refuses to adapt to his current roster.
I hear ya man. I guess I'm a Torts apologist, but I still disagree with his line shuffling and in-game decisions at times. Our system is built for the playoffs, when games tighten up and physicality/defense becomes essential.

I just feel that some people on this board are just out to get Torts, and think that he can do no right. Even when we win convincingly, some of you guys still find ways to criticize him (like screwing Hank of the Vezina by putting the 4th line out and knowing they'd get a penalty and then BUF would score with 45 seconds left, really?).

You have to agree with me that Torts gets minimal credit when we win, and often gets the blame when we lose. Feel free to criticize him when we lose, but when we win, lay off

zuckera1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 10:15 AM
  #227
SA16
Two by two...
 
SA16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
I guess we should've pulled Hank up 5-0 in MTL. That game was over.

Seriously with this? One of the worst ideas I've seen on here.
Want to look up the percentages for how often teams come back from down 5 since the 04-05 lockout? You're basing your thoughts on a situation that almost never occurs because of a sample size of one game that we played.

Got it. http://espn.go.com/espn/elias?date=20091013

Happened ten times ever (up to when this article was written). No team has ever come back from down 6. And I'm sure most of those 10 were in the 80s or some other much higher scoring era. So like I said - you're taking the worst possible scenario even though its an extremely rare one and using that to make your case.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=489622
The post by pitlang towards the end seems to provide 9 of the 10 times - I don't know his source and did not verify the accuracy.

We're trying to win games and make the playoffs here - not win individual awards and play for stats. Leaving him in in a game like that serves no purpose. Games already locked up so he can't contribute anymore to help us win. But he can potentially get hurt (also a rare situation but less so and much more damaging) which would essentially instantly end our entire season.

And how would taking him out be any different than other things that happen? We played our top guys less and 4th line more cause we were up a ton (obviously can't top out top guys "out" because of course the 4th like can't play the entire game) when teams get huge leads in football they take their qbs and top guys out. At some point it's not worth the risk when there is legitimately zero reward.


Last edited by SA16: 04-20-2013 at 10:32 AM.
SA16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 10:47 AM
  #228
haveandare
Registered User
 
haveandare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 6,158
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I mean, fair enough. But he has added little to nothing in either end of the ice aside from decent to good ability to work the boards on the cycle for 40+ games now.

You can argue that he is a better defensive option, and that he makes better decisions in terms of when to dump the puck deep in the neutral zone. I wouldn't necessarily agree but the argument can be made, and that has to be why Torts has him on that line.

More than anything else I am just baffled that it isn't Newbury, Ferriero, even Segal/Mashinter playing 7min a night on the 4th line. In my opinion that is terrible prospect management.
Personally, I think it's an issue of wanting to wean CK into the game rather than wanting to put Pyatt up a line. I don't think fourth line minutes in the NHL are good for him long term, but if his game was missing some snarl and confidence, which I think it was, maybe letting him phase himself into the NHL game isn't such a bad idea. It's only been two games so far. Play on the fourth until he's consistently hustling and throwing his weight around, then move up to the third to start some supplemental offense, from there to the second etc.

haveandare is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 10:48 AM
  #229
Killem Dafoe
Moderator
modus operandi
 
Killem Dafoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Land of Bad Drivers
Country: United States
Posts: 15,617
vCash: 50
NHL.com reads "Blowout victory for NYR eliminates Sabres" damn it feels good to blowout a team again.

I woke up this morning and instead of reading the news with my coffee, I just stared at the score.

Killem Dafoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 11:09 AM
  #230
Crazed Beaver
Registered User
 
Crazed Beaver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Swamp
Country: United States
Posts: 740
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Personally, I think it's an issue of wanting to wean CK into the game rather than wanting to put Pyatt up a line. I don't think fourth line minutes in the NHL are good for him long term, but if his game was missing some snarl and confidence, which I think it was, maybe letting him phase himself into the NHL game isn't such a bad idea. It's only been two games so far. Play on the fourth until he's consistently hustling and throwing his weight around, then move up to the third to start some supplemental offense, from there to the second etc.
Agree 100%

His confidence doesn't seem to be there. He also isn't skating and banging like he is capable.
Doesn't deserve torts yoyo treatment but hasn't exactly played very well either.

Miller has defensive miscues but he is aggressive and hustles. For a limited min guy he fits the bill better. Kreider disappoints .......


Last edited by Crazed Beaver: 04-20-2013 at 12:55 PM.
Crazed Beaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 11:17 AM
  #231
JeremyNYR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 50
vCash: 500
I went to the game tonight and what a great game! There were many Rangers fans in attendance and you could hear their chants around the arena throughout the night!

I came in here thinking I'd see a lot of positive comments about getting a very important win, but instead people are whining about hurting Hank's stats and Vezina voting, and how particular players sucked out there. It's sad how many people can never just let themselves enjoy a GAME and be happy to see their team WIN. Obsessing on stats and individual trophy voting just makes it impossible to ever be satisfied as a fan. How about just rooting for Wins?

JeremyNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 11:23 AM
  #232
Rust Heisenberg
Registered User
 
Rust Heisenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuckera1 View Post
I hear ya man. I guess I'm a Torts apologist, but I still disagree with his line shuffling and in-game decisions at times. Our system is built for the playoffs, when games tighten up and physicality/defense becomes essential.

I just feel that some people on this board are just out to get Torts, and think that he can do no right. Even when we win convincingly, some of you guys still find ways to criticize him (like screwing Hank of the Vezina by putting the 4th line out and knowing they'd get a penalty and then BUF would score with 45 seconds left, really?).

You have to agree with me that Torts gets minimal credit when we win, and often gets the blame when we lose. Feel free to criticize him when we lose, but when we win, lay off
I'll give Torts credit when I think he deserves credit. I'll give Torts criticism when he deserves it too. That's how it should be. Some people hate him on here. I disagree with that. He seems like a genuinely good guy, but as a coach he's only effective when he can motivate his squad. This happened with him when he was in TB. Players grow sick of the constant call outs, the constant emphasis on only defense.

We did not win last night because of him. We came out flat footed... AGAIN. As a coach, that is on you. Players need to be focused and motivated to come right out of the gate. Isn't that his best characteristic? Motivating players? Why do they constantly come out in the 1st period looking like they've just woken up from a bender? We got some lucky bounces, the Sabres made some stupid mistakes, and we took a commanding lead as a result of those things. We did not play good team defense. We did not control the neutral zone. We worked the boards nicely but that's because after a certain point Buffalo gave up.

In addition, he's going to wear out our starting goalie. We keep winning, but how far are we gonna get if Henrik is fatigued as **** heading into the 1st round? This isn't a normal season with a normal Torts conditioning "hell month"... Henrik definitely did not condition himself to naturally last like this this season.

And last year, we tightened up way before the playoffs. This year, we're all loosy goosy. It's easy to say "we'll tighten up for the playoffs"... incorrect. Our play, even recently, has not given me any indication that the team will tighten up. The best we can hope for is that Staal comes back and helps limit Del Zotto's minutes (and boneheaded play making decisions), that Dorsett comes in and sparks this team whenever we need a boost (i.e every 1st period and if/when we hit our "paralysis mode" when we go down a goal or 2), that Torts wisens up and starts using appropriate line combinations, and that Henrik ascends to "God mode". This team isn't going to play Torts system in the playoffs very effectively.

Rust Heisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 11:44 AM
  #233
Hockey Team
Hunger Force
 
Hockey Team's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 4,485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
Want to look up the percentages for how often teams come back from down 5 since the 04-05 lockout? You're basing your thoughts on a situation that almost never occurs because of a sample size of one game that we played.

Got it. http://espn.go.com/espn/elias?date=20091013

Happened ten times ever (up to when this article was written). No team has ever come back from down 6. And I'm sure most of those 10 were in the 80s or some other much higher scoring era. So like I said - you're taking the worst possible scenario even though its an extremely rare one and using that to make your case.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=489622
The post by pitlang towards the end seems to provide 9 of the 10 times - I don't know his source and did not verify the accuracy.

We're trying to win games and make the playoffs here - not win individual awards and play for stats. Leaving him in in a game like that serves no purpose. Games already locked up so he can't contribute anymore to help us win. But he can potentially get hurt (also a rare situation but less so and much more damaging) which would essentially instantly end our entire season.

And how would taking him out be any different than other things that happen? We played our top guys less and 4th line more cause we were up a ton (obviously can't top out top guys "out" because of course the 4th like can't play the entire game) when teams get huge leads in football they take their qbs and top guys out. At some point it's not worth the risk when there is legitimately zero reward.
Yeah, when given the OPTION of putting in 4th line players in more when you're up a lot, the coach will do so. In football, players are frequently changed out.

You don't pull a goalie who's playing well in the middle of a period to stick in a cold backup. That's just retarded.

Hockey Team is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 11:57 AM
  #234
ImIdaho
Choo-Choo-Choose me!
 
ImIdaho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,151
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Team View Post
Yeah, when given the OPTION of putting in 4th line players in more when you're up a lot, the coach will do so. In football, players are frequently changed out.

You don't pull a goalie who's playing well in the middle of a period to stick in a cold backup. That's just retarded.
You're gonna have to put in that backup in sooner or later, and with the way things are now, it ain't happening.

ImIdaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 01:11 PM
  #235
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 11,714
vCash: 500
Gotta feel for the Sabres players, whose whole season went down the drain in less than 90 seconds.

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 01:16 PM
  #236
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 11,714
vCash: 500
By the way, all of this stuff about lundqvists fatigue is ridiculous. The Rangers will have to make it to the SCF for him to have played more games this season, including playoffs, than he did last season, not including playoffs.

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 01:21 PM
  #237
nyrpassion
Vetted.
 
nyrpassion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Washington DC
Country: United States
Posts: 4,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
By the way, all of this stuff about lundqvists fatigue is ridiculous. The Rangers will have to make it to the SCF for him to have played more games this season, including playoffs, than he did last season, not including playoffs.
but he did have more rest in between game last year. this year you have games every other day basically.

nyrpassion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 01:31 PM
  #238
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 11,714
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrpassion View Post
but he did have more rest in between game last year. this year you have games every other day basically.
The condensed schedule is also overblown. I think it worked out to an extra game every 2 months compared with a normal schedule.

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 01:37 PM
  #239
GFiP
Registered User
 
GFiP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,633
vCash: 500
Since the Gaborik trade we have gone from dead last in goals to 17th.

Thank you Glen Sather!

GFiP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 02:01 PM
  #240
segmentation fault
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Jersey City
Country: Italy
Posts: 1,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyNYR View Post
I came in here thinking I'd see a lot of positive comments about getting a very important win, but instead people are whining about hurting Hank's stats and Vezina voting
Honestly I didnt even think he was in the running let alone a contender to win. Why care so much?

segmentation fault is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 02:37 PM
  #241
Pizza
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,037
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyNYR View Post
I went to the game tonight and what a great game! There were many Rangers fans in attendance and you could hear their chants around the arena throughout the night!

I came in here thinking I'd see a lot of positive comments about getting a very important win, but instead people are whining about hurting Hank's stats and Vezina voting, and how particular players sucked out there. It's sad how many people can never just let themselves enjoy a GAME and be happy to see their team WIN. Obsessing on stats and individual trophy voting just makes it impossible to ever be satisfied as a fan. How about just rooting for Wins?
How refreshing.

I'm sorry to say that sadly, that kind of thinking is in the minority on this board filled with coffee shop type malcontents.

Let's Go Rangers!

Pizza is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 04:30 PM
  #242
frozenrubber
Registered User
 
frozenrubber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 1,992
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
The condensed schedule is also overblown. I think it worked out to an extra game every 2 months compared with a normal schedule.
The issue w/ this instance is 3 games in 4 days (with the 3rd game an early afternoon game).

If Lundqvist was torched for 4 goals in the 1st, Tortorella most certainly would of pulled him to rest him for the remaining games.

I could care less about the Vezina or stats.

frozenrubber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 04:33 PM
  #243
Bob Richards
Mr. Mojo Risin'
 
Bob Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 46,369
vCash: 50
We scored 5 goals in two minutes and 58 seconds.

I'm still trying to comprehend that.

__________________
"New day, new hope. Richards Buyout 2014". -Ail
Bob Richards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 05:20 PM
  #244
SA16
Two by two...
 
SA16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,028
vCash: 500
He understands. He doesn't comprehend.

SA16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 10:36 PM
  #245
Silence Of The Plams
Zemgod
 
Silence Of The Plams's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lancaster, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 17,827
vCash: 500
I'm trying comprehend the fact that (YES, I KNOW we go over this....) Kreider had seemingly super low minutes.

Silence Of The Plams is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 10:42 PM
  #246
JohnC
#FreeSteve
 
JohnC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 4,637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
I'm trying comprehend the fact that (YES, I KNOW we go over this....) Kreider had seemingly super low minutes.
I can MAYBE understand not wanting to play the 4th line more, but at least bump the kid up. They were killing them. Play him with Cally and Stepan if you're afraid he's gonna **** up defensively

JohnC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 11:08 PM
  #247
Cresto
In the pantry
 
Cresto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Gotta feel for the Sabres players, whose whole season went down the drain in less than 90 seconds.
their whole entire season went down in drain over 44 games.

Now if we're needing a point to clinch against the Devils next Saturday and the game is tied 0-0 with 90 seconds left and we got scored on twice then that's a whole season down the drain in 90 second.

Cresto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 11:14 PM
  #248
Silence Of The Plams
Zemgod
 
Silence Of The Plams's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lancaster, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 17,827
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcman View Post
I can MAYBE understand not wanting to play the 4th line more, but at least bump the kid up. They were killing them. Play him with Cally and Stepan if you're afraid he's gonna **** up defensively
That's my mentality, why even put him on the 4th/grind/etc line? Give him some TOI with players who don't get benched

Silence Of The Plams is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2013, 11:22 PM
  #249
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
SnowblindNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 17,263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by segmentation fault View Post
Honestly I didnt even think he was in the running let alone a contender to win. Why care so much?
Why wouldn't he be in the running? He has great stats. He's not a favorite, but his stats should make him a finalist.

SnowblindNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2013, 03:30 AM
  #250
Callagraves
Block shots
 
Callagraves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 6,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
He understands. He doesn't comprehend.
I believe this to be a Firefly reference.

Callagraves is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:55 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.