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Would the Habs benefit from a Heavyweight enforcer? Part 3

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Old
04-16-2013, 08:20 AM
  #276
Darch
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
While I'm glad to see that Bergevin didn't sell the farm to get temporary fixes, and the fact that the team is playing well, on't think for a minute that they didn't need help. Wait to see the bullseye in Prust's back. For a team to be tougher than the Habs, they only need two tough guys... unless Travis Moen wakes up and even then.
Don't count on Moen. He's clearly not interested in the 4th line minutes he's getting. He's not going to put himself on the line for a team he feels doesn't use him properly.

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04-16-2013, 08:32 AM
  #277
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Is that what you got from my post? Trade Gallagher?

Incredible.

Rosehill goes after Gallagher. Nothing. Rosehill goes after Pacioretty. Nothing.

If you liked tonight, then get used to it as we slide toward the playoffs. Every team in the playoffs knows now that the way to beat the Habs in a game is to physically beat them on the ice.

Target the talent, get away with it, target the talent some more and then laugh as you get away with it. Win the game, laugh at the Habs for taking it over and over again.

Gallagher is all heart. Too bad he is too small to stand up against Rosehill or the next goon to target him. No one on the team can do that. Prust tried. Prust is on the IR for fighting the goons and getting worn down. He got slammed on his shoulder by the ****ing tool Kaletta. No one else could or would stand up.

We dont need a damned enforcer. Right? I hope Bergevin is happy with the way the last two games turned out.
The last 2 games we gave up 12 goals against, what does that have to do with an enforcer? Our goalie struggled and our defense also.

Prust is not on IR he is supposed to play tomorrow night. He got hurt on an icing call and then reinjured it mildly on a hit from the ever ferocious Fransen.

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04-16-2013, 10:54 AM
  #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Is that what you got from my post? Trade Gallagher?

Incredible.

Rosehill goes after Gallagher. Nothing. Rosehill goes after Pacioretty. Nothing.

If you liked tonight, then get used to it as we slide toward the playoffs. Every team in the playoffs knows now that the way to beat the Habs in a game is to physically beat them on the ice.

Target the talent, get away with it, target the talent some more and then laugh as you get away with it. Win the game, laugh at the Habs for taking it over and over again.

Gallagher is all heart. Too bad he is too small to stand up against Rosehill or the next goon to target him. No one on the team can do that. Prust tried. Prust is on the IR for fighting the goons and getting worn down. He got slammed on his shoulder by the ****ing tool Kaletta. No one else could or would stand up.

We dont need a damned enforcer. Right? I hope Bergevin is happy with the way the last two games turned out.

I just found it sad that you said "May not win a Cup but Bergevin saved a 6th round pick to draft another undersized forward." Brendan Gallagher is an undersized 5th round pick, don't forget. I have no problem with a second Gallagher. I prefer him, Hudon, etc. than a Colton Orr. It's just that I'd rather get a goon during the summer, when it's free.

Do we need an enforcer. Maybe. It won't protect Gallagher from anything. Gallagher won't change his game. He will continue to crash the net. The others players will continue to try to intimidate him because they want to keep their jobs. He will come back because he is Gallagher. And they will continue. Montréal may dress a goon, he won't be able to stop others teams to hit or slash Gallagher because they want to keep their jobs. Rosehill will continue to play like a ****** because he wants $$$ and a roster spot in the NHL. They are more afraid of losing a job than a guy who will ask for a fight and who won't play with Gallagher since one is a top-6er and the other is a 4-6 minutes goon. A goon, it would be entertaining. It would be cool to see Bordeleau destroy Orr and Mclaren at the same time. No problem, but I just want to say that a goon is a marginal player. We should still need to score many goals and to defend. It won't prevent us from losing a game pretty badly sometimes.

Did the Bruins beat us two years ago with fighting ? Philly three years ago ? No. They weren't that physical. They scored more goals than us. Simple. Boston played good defence and Philly putted a lot of pressure on our defence. A team would be stupid to gooning a game in the playoff, it is too much dangerous. A penalty killing and it may mean the end. This is a reason why goons don't play in playoff. The regular season is far more physical. And don't forget that we are second in the eastern conference, without goon. I don't say it is a correlation. It's just that, like I said, goons are marginal player that don't play in playoff but they are entertaining. And we are a good team because we have good depth and a good system.

By the way, didn't Prust injured himself ? Like a month ago and has been injured in the game vs Toronto with a legal (and not that big) hit last saturday ? Pretty sure RDS showed it in the pregame. Obviously I hated the two last games. This is why I want my team to be better... at playing hockey. And why not fighting too, but it is secondary, because I want my team to be the best at hockey.

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04-16-2013, 10:56 AM
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
As it has been said for the last 20 years in Montreal..............."with our picks and prospects, our chances of going after the Cup will be great in two years."

Drewiskie is a waste. Bergevin is reminiscent of Gauthier going after Mara and Sopel and thinking that a band-aid on a gash needing 20 stitches would work.


Damn, I havent been this frustrated with the Canadiens management and coaching since last year.
What happened to the 'enjoy the ride' and 'stop whining' mentality some people were spewing after wins and losses.

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04-16-2013, 05:06 PM
  #280
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I wanted Parros in the deal when we traded Lapierre to Anaheim. Every team needs an enforcer.

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04-16-2013, 05:11 PM
  #281
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I love the people who think bergevin is like gauthier or gainey seriously use your heads guys he was the assistant gm to Chicago he has PLENTY of draft picks and I for one am happy he didn't do anything to get a stupid heavyweight enforcer. When tinordi is done growing he's gonna make Orr look like a ***** seriously

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04-16-2013, 05:11 PM
  #282
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Without adding an "enforcer" or an "HW" at all cost, this team sure could use a couple of aggressors out there.

I wouldn't mind a guy like Carcillo out there.

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04-16-2013, 05:14 PM
  #283
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How has Carcillo looked this year? He'd be more valuable than Parros, that's for sure.

Shame about missing out on Torres, he would have been nice if only for the nuclear option against Kadri.

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04-16-2013, 05:20 PM
  #284
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Exactly don't give up the farm on trade deadline for a team that realistically shouldn't be going for a cup run people are too exited that were in second and want to go for the cup not saying its impossible just not probable

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04-16-2013, 07:03 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
What happened to the 'enjoy the ride' and 'stop whining' mentality some people were spewing after wins and losses.
Great post. You win the internets.

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04-16-2013, 07:06 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Habs88 View Post
I love the people who think bergevin is like gauthier or gainey seriously use your heads guys he was the assistant gm to Chicago he has PLENTY of draft picks and I for one am happy he didn't do anything to get a stupid heavyweight enforcer. When tinordi is done growing he's gonna make Orr look like a ***** seriously
In two years, right?

The future always looks bright two years from now in Montreal.

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04-16-2013, 07:11 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
So panic has set in I see, and some fans are already turning against Bergevin, the same guy they were praising not all that long ago? Come on people... never too high, never too low!

Bergevin tried to address the lack of toughness by signing Prust. He could not predict that Travis Moen would become a figure skater and that Ryan White would lose his mind and his game at the same time.

When he realized that, he tried to get Sestito but Vancouver beat him to it because of their place in the standings. He then tried to get Clowe but he was way too expansive.

I say give the GM until this summer and you'll see that problem being addressed. Remember that the goal this year was to make the playoffs. Whatever happens now is gravy. Bergevin (and Therrien) have this team heading in the right direction.
You are correct.

Last night was a very frustrating game as we watched the Flyers beat our players on the ice, on the scoreboard and everywhere else.

The motto of take the abuse and beat the other team on the PP is proving to be a myth. No player with the talent of Gallagher should be allowed to take such punishment without a response from one of his teammates. Never.

Look at what the Flyers did to White after his dumb shoulder hit.

I will wait to see what Bergevin does in the offseason. Too late for this season. And the Leafs cant wait.

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04-17-2013, 04:43 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
So panic has set in I see, and some fans are already turning against Bergevin, the same guy they were praising not all that long ago? Come on people... never too high, never too low!

Bergevin tried to address the lack of toughness by signing Prust. He could not predict that Travis Moen would become a figure skater and that Ryan White would lose his mind and his game at the same time.

When he realized that, he tried to get Sestito but Vancouver beat him to it because of their place in the standings. He then tried to get Clowe but he was way too expansive.

I say give the GM until this summer and you'll see that problem being addressed. Remember that the goal this year was to make the playoffs. Whatever happens now is gravy. Bergevin (and Therrien) have this team heading in the right direction.
I will be patient til next October.

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Old
04-20-2013, 12:32 PM
  #289
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Mcgrattan got the 3th star again the ducks..... got 3 goals in 19 games, throw the body around and play good defensively.......but Armstrong and Moen are way better...

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04-20-2013, 12:51 PM
  #290
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The toughest , most enforcer rich team in NHL history was the Flyers of the mid-seventies. So the Canadiens went out, and Sam Pollock got the toughest gang of policemen and enforcers he could find to stand up to them!
Uh, no. Actually, he didn't. He built a team around Lafleur and Lemaire and Gainey and Savard and Lapointe, and they skated past the Flyers and beat them in four straight games and drove their dirty style out of the league, for a little while. The only truly physical player on that team was the great Larry Robinson, and though he fought a bit as a kid, by that time he was playing perfectly clean, very hard-checking hockey.
Nobody loses games because they don't fight. It just never happens.

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04-20-2013, 01:14 PM
  #291
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Hockey is entertainment and HW fights are entertaining

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04-20-2013, 01:44 PM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherbrookeW View Post
The toughest , most enforcer rich team in NHL history was the Flyers of the mid-seventies. So the Canadiens went out, and Sam Pollock got the toughest gang of policemen and enforcers he could find to stand up to them!
Uh, no. Actually, he didn't. He built a team around Lafleur and Lemaire and Gainey and Savard and Lapointe, and they skated past the Flyers and beat them in four straight games and drove their dirty style out of the league, for a little while. The only truly physical player on that team was the great Larry Robinson, and though he fought a bit as a kid, by that time he was playing perfectly clean, very hard-checking hockey.
Nobody loses games because they don't fight. It just never happens.
Selective memory.

You have forgotten the 80's with the tough Islanders and the enforcer rich Oilers.

Do you remember the 1989 Flames? The team that beat the Habs in the Stanley Cup Finals. They had Peplinski, Roberts, Otto and Tim Hunter who had 375 PIM.

I get what you are saying. Talent wins a Cup. But to dismiss the role of toughness and the need to have enforcers taking up for our skill players is foolish.

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04-20-2013, 03:37 PM
  #293
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this guy can't skate


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04-20-2013, 03:41 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by SherbrookeW View Post
The toughest , most enforcer rich team in NHL history was the Flyers of the mid-seventies. So the Canadiens went out, and Sam Pollock got the toughest gang of policemen and enforcers he could find to stand up to them!
Uh, no. Actually, he didn't. He built a team around Lafleur and Lemaire and Gainey and Savard and Lapointe, and they skated past the Flyers and beat them in four straight games and drove their dirty style out of the league, for a little while. The only truly physical player on that team was the great Larry Robinson, and though he fought a bit as a kid, by that time he was playing perfectly clean, very hard-checking hockey.
Nobody loses games because they don't fight. It just never happens.
Although I would agree with you on skills will triumph over thuggery, things have changed since then. The team needs to have a Prust like player that can also fight lay down the law when needed. MB needs to sign someone in the off season to fill this position.

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04-20-2013, 03:59 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Selective memory.

You have forgotten the 80's with the tough Islanders and the enforcer rich Oilers.

Do you remember the 1989 Flames? The team that beat the Habs in the Stanley Cup Finals. They had Peplinski, Roberts, Otto and Tim Hunter who had 375 PIM.

I get what you are saying. Talent wins a Cup. But to dismiss the role of toughness and the need to have enforcers taking up for our skill players is foolish.
Enforcers don't have a monopoly on toughness. You can build a tough team that doesn't have heavyweights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interlagos Blue View Post
Although I would agree with you on skills will triumph over thuggery, things have changed since then. The team needs to have a Prust like player that can also fight lay down the law when needed. MB needs to sign someone in the off season to fill this position.
I think most people would say that the need for an enforcer has been reduced in this era compared to previous ones. How many Prust-like players do we need, and how much better of a fighter does he have to be to lay down the law?

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04-20-2013, 04:04 PM
  #296
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Mcgrattan got the 3th star again the ducks..... got 3 goals in 19 games, throw the body around and play good defensively.......but Armstrong and Moen are way better...
3 goals eh ?

matched his best season

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04-20-2013, 04:04 PM
  #297
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[QUOTE=Sorinth;64335239]Enforcers don't have a monopoly on toughness. You can build a tough team that doesn't have heavyweights.
QUOTE]

No, you can't

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04-20-2013, 04:22 PM
  #298
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No, you can't
Brown - Beregeron - Ladd
Kunitz - Ott - Doan
Prust - Lapierre - Foligno
Moen - White - Kaleta

Schenn - Weber
Emelin - Kronwall
Bouillon - Gorges

Would this not be considered a tough team? Not really any heavyweights there.

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04-20-2013, 04:24 PM
  #299
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I am soooooooo mad at the Habs for sitting on their hands all season and not adding any muscle if for no other reason than to watch out for the little guys. I'm sick of seeing teams going after little Gallagher or Eller. Sick of it. PK Subban should not have to fight and Prust is already damaged goods thanks to Habs management being so hard-headed.

I wonder why the Pens picked up McIntyre?
I wonder why the Sens picked up Kassian?
I wonder why whoever picked up McGratton?
I wonder why Canucks picked up Sestito?
I wonder why Flyers picked up Rosehill?
I wonder why Leafs picked up Orr and McLaren (offseason)?

And so forth and so forth!!!!!! What is so good about Armstrong, Blunden, Moen, Dumont, anyone who plays on our 4th line that makes them irreplaceable?

I wonder what it will take to get these fat cats who run this team to wake up? Do ya think a beating in the first round might do the trick? Well, stay tuned.....

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04-20-2013, 04:44 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by SherbrookeW View Post
The toughest , most enforcer rich team in NHL history was the Flyers of the mid-seventies. So the Canadiens went out, and Sam Pollock got the toughest gang of policemen and enforcers he could find to stand up to them!
Uh, no. Actually, he didn't.
He built a team around Lafleur and Lemaire and Gainey and Savard and Lapointe, and they skated past the Flyers and beat them in four straight games and drove their dirty style out of the league, for a little while. The only truly physical player on that team was the great Larry Robinson, and though he fought a bit as a kid, by that time he was playing perfectly clean, very hard-checking hockey.
Nobody loses games because they don't fight. It just never happens.
Not preaching one way or another but you might not have used the best example there. After seeing the Flyers using intimidation to win two consecutive Cups, Scotty Bowman, then Montreal coach, got a bunch of goons to play a pre-season game vs Philly in the 1975-1976 season. Many say that move had turned the tables around as the Flyers were unable, from that point on, to intimidate the Canadiens who then went on to win four Stanley Cups in a row.

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