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Phoenix LXXIV: Be Seeing You

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04-20-2013, 02:08 PM
  #826
aqib
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No, its not that "simple". I've personally got over 3 decades worth of working as a "Consultant" under my belt. Dealing with primarily entertainment but so too some sports properties and Im talking serious stuff, global, big stages. I dont need to be lectured by you or anyone else as to what constitutes "reasonable fee structures", be it venue assessment, marketing, legal. Sure Im aware of others in my industry grossly over-charging, bad apples everywhere, in every sector. I suppose I could triple, quadruple my rates for whatever. Just sit around in a Fez smoking a Hookah all day & wait for the phone to ring. Not.... I sometimes wonder if
You know, not everything around here has to be construed or turned into personal attacks.

There is something called market rates. Bigger named firms get more credentialed people working for them therefore they can charge more money for their services. Firms only charge what people are willing to pay. So if you are charging less than you can get for your services well then you're just a heck of a guy and should be commended for your generosity.

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04-20-2013, 02:20 PM
  #827
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Perhaps I should say no one would want to do that in a suburban environment. Wrigleyville in Chicago is another example of people willing to deal with the problems of living near a ballpark. People would be willing to do it in a trendy part of the city, mostly because the traffic and noise isn't going to have a big difference on a game day versus a non game day.
Thats true. However, these days "suburban life style centers" where you have mid-rise apartment complexes/townhouses/retail/office all together have become fairly trendy. It gives people and urban feel without having to deal with urban issues like crime, subpar schools, etc.

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04-20-2013, 02:27 PM
  #828
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You know, not everything around here has to be construed or turned into personal attacks.... There is something called market rates. Bigger named firms get more credentialed people working for them therefore they can charge more money for their services. Firms only charge what people are willing to pay. So if you are charging less than you can get for your services well then you're just a heck of a guy and should be commended for your generosity.
Personal attack? Far from it. Simply pointing out some facts my good man. No way no how is Beacon in the range of $48K. Hell, I wouldnt pay them .48cents for an opinion and if I did, even asked them if it was raining outside, Id go check just to make sure. Go look up there forty eight thousand dollar "Glendale Arena Assessment Report" and then with a straight face try & tell me its worth every penny. Appears to have been written by a 1st year Community College student. That that fee is even remotely reasonable for the tripe they produced is beyond laughable. But g'head, defend them, defend gouging, usury fee's... and wont address your last sentence there as that is personal, and yes, I am a generous guy. Reasonable. I actually produce stuff thats worth more than what Im being paid for. Its called exceeding the clients expectations. Thats what professionals do, and they do it without taking advantage of & bankrupting whomever it is their doing work for & with. Ethics. Standards.

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04-20-2013, 05:46 PM
  #829
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I think they stay put, or it's Seattle.
The arrows are pointing that way, aren't they?

I don't buy the two-separate-decisions rationale. Separate but related. If a move to QC were at all likely, the NHL would be nuts to realign as it has. Too much work to undo it.

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04-20-2013, 06:25 PM
  #830
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The arrows are pointing that way, aren't they?

I don't buy the two-separate-decisions rationale. Separate but related. If a move to QC were at all likely, the NHL would be nuts to realign as it has. Too much work to undo it.
Quebec stays in the Pacific division for a season, then Detroit or Columbus is moved back to the Western Conference. Probably what they'd end up having to do, but I don't see the Coyotes moving to Quebec. Seattle or staying put IMO.

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04-20-2013, 06:54 PM
  #831
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Forget Seattle they are not ready. Its going to be very hard to go another season in Glendale IMO. Quebec is probably the answer. And we all know that its not by choice.

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04-20-2013, 07:01 PM
  #832
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Originally Posted by Mork View Post
The arrows are pointing that way, aren't they?

I don't buy the two-separate-decisions rationale. Separate but related. If a move to QC were at all likely, the NHL would be nuts to realign as it has. Too much work to undo it.
Since the realignment plan was announced after the Jamison deal (?) collapsed, I've thought it was pretty clear the Coyotes would be moving north, not east. I'm expecting another season here of, "we should know in a couple of weeks where we are on a local sale," when we're actually a placeholder for some northern city beginning with the 14-15 season.

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04-20-2013, 07:04 PM
  #833
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Since the realignment plan was announced after the Jamison deal (?) collapsed, I've thought it was pretty clear the Coyotes would be moving north, not east.
A couple of months ago, when the Seattle arena deal was even less secure than it is right now (and it still isn't a done deal). Now that would be extremely risky of the league to place all its eggs in Seattle's basket. Not that the league is always risk-averse....


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04-20-2013, 07:48 PM
  #834
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Bettman, and the league, are NOT going to let a 2nd team move to Canada within 3 years.

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04-20-2013, 08:39 PM
  #835
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Go look up there forty eight thousand dollar "Glendale Arena Assessment Report" and then with a straight face try & tell me its worth every penny.
Looks par for the course to me. I've certainly seen far more expensive reports look no better than that one.

And as CF pointed out - the report served its purpose, the purpose involved considerably more than $50k, so the money well spent for the folks who commissioned it.

 
Old
04-20-2013, 08:56 PM
  #836
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Originally Posted by RR View Post
Since the realignment plan was announced after the Jamison deal (?) collapsed, I've thought it was pretty clear the Coyotes would be moving north, not east. I'm expecting another season here of, "we should know in a couple of weeks where we are on a local sale," when we're actually a placeholder for some northern city beginning with the 14-15 season.
I think this is a very realistic asssessment.

Still, whatever happens will be somewhat surprising because every last option now seems improbable.

I think the NHL has really painted itself into a corner!

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04-20-2013, 09:50 PM
  #837
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Looks par for the course to me. I've certainly seen far more expensive reports look no better than that one. And as CF pointed out - the report served its purpose, the purpose involved considerably more than $50k, so the money well spent for the folks who commissioned it.
Sure it served its purpose. The number just gaudy enough to fool people into thinking this particular "Consultant" knew what they were doing, they with just enough credibility to pass muster until you dig a little bit. And ya, you wanna pull off scams of the magnitude Edward Beasley in conjunction with Kaites, the Reinsdorfs, Matt Hulsizer, Greg Jamison & the NHL were contemplating then absolutely, call in the Paper Hangers. TL Hocking, Beacon Sports Capital Partners LLC, the lot of em. If your perusing reports of the sort being discussed here, and that those sorts of rates & the content contained therein are "par for the course" in your business dealings? Good luck with that. Must make for some amusing days provided you havent got any money tied up in them. Precisely the sort of nonsense that caused the closure of the VSE. Like reading IPO's from the Casablanca Stock Exchange. Highly amusing.

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I think the NHL has really painted itself into a corner!
Thats what Im hoping, yet despite themselves, not because of their incredible vision & business acumen, they've been successful, are successful and will continue to be successful long after were all dust. That team could stay parked in Glendale, the NHL eating the losses for another 2-3yrs and theyd still get their money back, be made whole again; simply sell it to interests in Southern Ontario. No rush here whatsoever really. Purchase price, carrying costs.... all on the Visa card Mork.


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04-20-2013, 09:54 PM
  #838
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Forget Seattle they are not ready. Its going to be very hard to go another season in Glendale IMO. Quebec is probably the answer. And we all know that its not by choice.
Why not?

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04-20-2013, 09:56 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Bettman, and the league, are NOT going to let a 2nd team move to Canada within 3 years.
They will if they have no choice and Seattle isn't ready yet based on how drawn out the NBA negotiations are and Seattle has openly spelled it out- no NHL til NBA. Then again, maybe they'll surprise us with the Mexico City Cartel or the Jamaican Bobsledders.

Are there any suitable alternate host cities in the US? Kansas City lacks the will, Houston has someone blocking access to it.

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04-20-2013, 10:00 PM
  #840
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Do you guys really think that the NHL would have voted a realignment which would have included QC? Like really believe that? This would have created a complete media storm.

No way is the NHL gonna admit to a relocation before they need to. You know they are still looking to sell locally. Announcing a move to QC would have killed all options.

Now, for all we know, the BOG voted on a second re-alignement where the Coyotes move. Or not. You know, planning doesn't seem like the NHL forte. It's at best, a bush league.

I chose to believe that the team will not be sold locally. That the CoG won't pay for another year of NHL hockey in the desert and that Seattle is not ready. With that in mind, either there was a plan B all along, or QC is gonna play in central division next season.

Of course, for someone believing that Seattle is ready, then the new alignment makes sense.

Or maybe the NHL will keep operating at loss in Glendale for another year while waiting for Seattle to be ready. Seems like a pretty ****ing stupid decision. Probably the most likely to happen then, knowing the NHL.

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04-20-2013, 10:10 PM
  #841
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^^ Exactly. The NHL is going to decide in mid-March that it's ruling out all options other than Seattle and Glendale with a) no guarantee of how Seattle's NBA and arena bid will turn out and b) a new subsidy-averse city council in Glendale? The league works in mysterious ways, but that would be downright foolish.

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04-20-2013, 10:11 PM
  #842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RR View Post
Since the realignment plan was announced after the Jamison deal (?) collapsed, I've thought it was pretty clear the Coyotes would be moving north, not east. I'm expecting another season here of, "we should know in a couple of weeks where we are on a local sale," when we're actually a placeholder for some northern city beginning with the 14-15 season.
Not really, it's more about the owners screwing the pooch for the sake of their own egos. The 1st alignment proposal had any potential move covered:

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/stor...g-steam-in-nhl

QUE to East 2 Det/CLB back to Central, SEA stays pat.

Philly/Pitt hated it so the league had to scrap it.

The 2nd one also had this covered by just keeping Detroit in the West

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/73...alignment-plan

QUE to Conference C or SEA stays pat.

Then the players rejected it and we had the lockout. This led to some how Detroit getting enough influence to get themselves into the East without the vote failing and we have the current train wreck as presented.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=660138

This won't prevent a move to Quebec since they'll most likely just vote again and just bump Detroit back to the west.

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04-20-2013, 10:18 PM
  #843
Killion
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You know, planning doesn't seem like the NHL forte. It's at best, a bush league.
Ya, their completely reactive as opposed to being pro-active. Opportunists. Lack of critical thought from conception through business planning & execution, be it alterations to conference & divisional play, on-ice rules & regulations or what have you. No vision whatsoever. Almost impossible to try & figure out what they might do as they play pretty much everything on the fly. Make it up as they go along, justifications with semi-plausible doublespeak, hollow rhetoric.

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04-20-2013, 10:20 PM
  #844
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Agreed on the above. When the relaigment was approved, Daly even mentioned it can be opened up if a relocation needs to take place.

Though the lack of an opening in the East makes it appear that Seattle is their 1st choice and Bettman has that little oopsie a couple weeks ago ensoring the market, even if the Seattle sonics return/arean falls through, it doesn't guarantee the Yotes are staying put next year.

IMO, the league will keep this close to the vest until the Yotes are 100% eliminated....only 93.5% done

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04-20-2013, 11:22 PM
  #845
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They are refusing to die once again HUGE win for them tonight

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04-20-2013, 11:22 PM
  #846
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Ok, looking at their schedule:

Monday- @ Detroit
Wednesday- home vs. Sharks
Friday- home vs. Avalanche
Saturday- @ Anaheim (Huh? Last home game isn't televised in AZ? Just says KCOP, which is LA. Do they know something we don't? Or does Fox Sports AZ hold the Coyotes in such low regard they won't even bother to televise their final game of the season and perhaps as a team based in AZ?)

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04-21-2013, 12:10 AM
  #847
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Its the conspiracy I laid out before. The league just does not want to let this team die. The Coyotes are Bettmans pet project and he will make sure by hook or by crook that he drags this process out as long as possible in order to keep them in Glendale.

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04-21-2013, 12:35 AM
  #848
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Thats true. However, these days "suburban life style centers" where you have mid-rise apartment complexes/townhouses/retail/office all together have become fairly trendy. It gives people and urban feel without having to deal with urban issues like crime, subpar schools, etc.
There's one aspect of the urban experience that's missing from those developments: diversity. Part of the reason I prefer urban living to suburban living is the diversity, in multiple aspects. I enjoy having people in my neighborhood that do not necessarily come from the same life background as me, whether it is racially/ethnically, socioeconomically, politically, etc. City neighborhoods will have wealthy blue-bloods and working-class immigrants living side-by-side, interacting, sending their kids to school together, etc. That is something I enjoy that "suburban lifestyle developments" don't have.

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04-21-2013, 12:59 AM
  #849
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No, its not that "simple". I've personally got over 3 decades worth of working as a "Consultant" under my belt. Dealing with primarily entertainment but so too some sports properties and Im talking serious stuff, global, big stages. I dont need to be lectured by you or anyone else as to what constitutes "reasonable fee structures", be it venue assessment, marketing, legal. Sure Im aware of others in my industry grossly over-charging, bad apples everywhere, in every sector. I suppose I could triple, quadruple my rates for whatever. Just sit around in a Fez smoking a Hookah all day & wait for the phone to ring. Not.... I sometimes wonder if
Rack rate for large consulting firms vary but a senior manager rack rate is usually around 700 per hour. A consultant around 400 per hour. Independent or small firms rack rates are much less than that. I know you can go out and find them for 150 an hour for independent consultants at the consultant level. Still, at 150 an hour, along with 2,500 per week for travel, gets you 300 hours of time. Double the travel and the per hour and it comes down even more.

As for the final deliverable produced by Beacon, the CoG accepted the deliverable so they must have thought it was OK. Personally, if i turned something like that in, I would have been embarrassed but every person, regardless of their employer, have different viewpoints and standards for the work.

Also, the time interviewing is only one component as I pointed out before and you never know who else they interviewed during research before writing their opinion.

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04-21-2013, 01:01 AM
  #850
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Do you guys really think that the NHL would have voted a realignment which would have included QC?
No. Not at all until such time as QC gets a franchise.

If they knew QC were getting a franchise soon, they needn't have done anything at all until that happens.

The complicated scenarios decribed on this thread are mind-boggling and bizarre. Not to say it couldn't happen, but it sure seems unlikely to me. It would make more sense to do it all at once and move in a single direction.

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