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Greg Sherman & Co - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM (Part II)

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Old
04-20-2013, 10:01 AM
  #451
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I know you were joking, but just putting link to our lineup, it was pretty horrible.

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04-20-2013, 10:34 AM
  #452
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Craig Anderson, for whatever reason, decided to metaphorically take his ball and go home. The Avs made an offer of, I believe, 2 years 7 million, AAV of 3.5m. He signed for 1 more year on Ottawa at an AAV of 3.187m. He took less to leave because he wanted a 3rd year, something the Avs weren't prepared to give him at that specific time. Who knows if they would have changed their tune once the season got closer to being over. If he would have had a better year then either the Avs' offer would have gone up, or he would have hit UFA and been able to potentially get a bigger payday. But instead he simply played like crap and his body language showed that of a person who simply didn't care.
It was a 4 year deal, actually.

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04-20-2013, 08:24 PM
  #453
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Seems every game PL comes to watch, the Avs lay an egg. Probably doesn't bode well for Sherman or Sacco.
Who's watching PL?

I suppose PL coming to games is a good sign. Though honestly, I'm not sure. I can't imagine that he looked at this team in the offseason and saw a last place WC team.

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04-20-2013, 09:03 PM
  #454
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Who's watching PL?

I suppose PL coming to games is a good sign. Though honestly, I'm not sure. I can't imagine that he looked at this team in the offseason and saw a last place WC team.


Josh just went up a few points in my books. I love bulldogs.

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04-20-2013, 09:06 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
Who's watching PL?

I suppose PL coming to games is a good sign. Though honestly, I'm not sure. I can't imagine that he looked at this team in the offseason and saw a last place WC team.
None of us did, and a few media pundits thought we'd make the playoffs. It was split really, people either thought we would fight for a playoff spot, or that we would be sitting where we are now.

It really feels like we're underachieving, even other teams fans after we lose games say things like "I don't understand how Colorado is THIS bad.".

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04-20-2013, 09:07 PM
  #456
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Who's watching PL?

I suppose PL coming to games is a good sign. Though honestly, I'm not sure. I can't imagine that he looked at this team in the offseason and saw a last place WC team.
Our only hope is that Pierre Lacroix stayed at a holiday inn last night.

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04-21-2013, 05:12 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
None of us did, and a few media pundits thought we'd make the playoffs. It was split really, people either thought we would fight for a playoff spot, or that we would be sitting where we are now.

It really feels like we're underachieving, even other teams fans after we lose games say things like "I don't understand how Colorado is THIS bad.".
Hmmm. Where to begin.

Erik Johnson as a #1 Dman.
Semyon Varlomov playing like a scrub.
Greg Zanon playing top pairing minutes and who is -15 on the season.
Matt Hunwick playing top pairing minutes.
Relying on Tyson Barrie to play somewhat capable defense which he is in-capable of.
John Mitchell on the 1st line.
Jamie McGinn playing top 6 minutes who is a -14 on the year.
Cody McLeod on the 3rd line.
David Jones playing like a bum.
The whole Ryan O'Reilly disaster and this team folding as soon as he came back.
Injuries to Landeskog, EJ, Stastny, Downie, Wilson etc.

It doesn't help when your NHL roster has maybe 3 or 4 top 6 forwards. The rest would be lucky to be 4th liners on good teams. Add that to maybe 1 or 2 NHL calibre Dmen infront of a goalie with a horrendous .901 save % and people are surprised why this team is bad??

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04-21-2013, 09:45 PM
  #458
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Shane O'brien on the first PP unit
Greg Zanon on the second PP unit

Are you kidding me?

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04-21-2013, 10:49 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by Heebs21 View Post
Add to the list:

Shane O'brien on the first PP unit
Greg Zanon on the second PP unit

Are you kidding me?
Cody McLeod on the PP

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04-21-2013, 11:04 PM
  #460
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Cody McLeod on the PP
Exactly. Sherman has done a terrible job building this team.

It starts on the backend and our D is beyond pathetic.

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04-22-2013, 07:11 AM
  #461
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Hmmm. Where to begin.

Erik Johnson as a #1 Dman.
Semyon Varlomov playing like a scrub.
Greg Zanon playing top pairing minutes and who is -15 on the season.
Matt Hunwick playing top pairing minutes.
Relying on Tyson Barrie to play somewhat capable defense which he is in-capable of.
John Mitchell on the 1st line.
Jamie McGinn playing top 6 minutes who is a -14 on the year.
Cody McLeod on the 3rd line.
David Jones playing like a bum.
The whole Ryan O'Reilly disaster and this team folding as soon as he came back.
Injuries to Landeskog, EJ, Stastny, Downie, Wilson etc.

It doesn't help when your NHL roster has maybe 3 or 4 top 6 forwards. The rest would be lucky to be 4th liners on good teams. Add that to maybe 1 or 2 NHL calibre Dmen infront of a goalie with a horrendous .901 save % and people are surprised why this team is bad??
c'mon.

Landeskog, O'Reilly, Duchene, Parenteau you are saying these guys are not top-6 material? Not to mention Stastny. You are just way too negative.

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04-22-2013, 10:20 AM
  #462
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Josh just went up a few points in my books. I love bulldogs.
Gotta love American Billionaries, they still shop at Kohl's.

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04-22-2013, 10:22 AM
  #463
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Originally Posted by Heebs21 View Post
Add to the list:

Shane O'brien on the first PP unit
Greg Zanon on the second PP unit

Are you kidding me?
At that point the game was pretty much over. It was more of an attempt to keep the Blues from scoring shorthanded. I'll say I didn't mind that at all.

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04-22-2013, 11:32 AM
  #464
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You know who I'm worried about Kroenke hiring, if he fires PL and Sherman? Given his lack of knowledge in the hockey community, he'll lilely just pick the most popular name.

And who's the most high profile GM out there, that has also fallen into a stanley cup to put on his resume? Yea, that guy. Not that I don't want PL gone, but I have a bad feeling we'll probably end up with Brian Burke as President/GM if the front office is cleaned out.

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04-22-2013, 11:36 AM
  #465
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Hmmm. Where to begin.
Heebs, I've been pretty negative on Sherman, as I believe he deserves some derision. However, I believe you're piling on a bit here. I'll engage in the discussion, if you're interested.

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Erik Johnson as a #1 Dman.
I agree that this has been the biggest disappointment for the Avs this season. This guy is absolutely packed with skill and talent, and doesn't play like it too often. I will not put all of the responsibility at Hunwick's and Sacco's feet either. He's simply not playing up to par, period.

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Semyon Varlomov playing like a scrub.
He was really good early one, and pretty bad later on. So far, not worth the picks they spent on him, but like with EJ, I see the skill. And like EJ, he needs to simply play better hockey.

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Greg Zanon playing top pairing minutes and who is -15 on the season.
Zanon has not been playing top pairing minutes. He does suck though.

And BTW, +/- is not a terribly meaningful statistic.

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Matt Hunwick playing top pairing minutes.
Agreed.

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Relying on Tyson Barrie to play somewhat capable defense which he is in-capable of.
I'll disagree here. Barrie has his faults defensively, but what 21 year old rookie doesn't? If you're not willing to live with some mistakes from young defensemen, you'll never be able to live through a rebuild of your team's defense.

BTW, Barrie's effort/compete level is generally pretty good also. He gets pushed around in the defensive zone sometimes, but IMO he gives it what he has.

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John Mitchell on the 1st line.
Like with McClement, a lot of people in here stretched their underwear over Mitchell. And like with McClement, I believe he's just OK - an easily replaceable 3rd/4th line tweener who's fine on the team in that role. He doesn't belong on a scoring line, agreed.

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Jamie McGinn playing top 6 minutes who is a -14 on the year.
Disagreement #2. McGinn has been pretty good as a Top 6 wing. Is he a top line wing? Perhaps not, but he's not out of place alongside Duchene and Parenteau, and in fact gives that line some physicality. I like McGinn.

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Cody McLeod on the 3rd line.
Or the 2nd line. McLeod doesn't belong up there, but you know what? I don't hold that against Cody, Sherman, or Sacco. McLeod gives the Avs the exact same (albeit limited) game every single time he plays. He's not going to work long term on a line with O'R and Landeskog, but what is Sacco going to do? Downie and Hejduk are hurt, and Jones doesn't deserve a NHL roster spot right now. Under those circumstances, who else should they be playing wing on the third line?

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David Jones playing like a bum.
He's just awful.

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The whole Ryan O'Reilly disaster and this team folding as soon as he came back.
Good point. Sherman looked like a complete buffoon. He got smoked.

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Injuries to Landeskog, EJ, Stastny, Downie, Wilson etc.
Yeah, that's sucked. But at whose feet are you putting the blame for that?

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Originally Posted by Heebs21 View Post
It doesn't help when your NHL roster has maybe 3 or 4 top 6 forwards. The rest would be lucky to be 4th liners on good teams. Add that to maybe 1 or 2 NHL calibre Dmen infront of a goalie with a horrendous .901 save % and people are surprised why this team is bad??
Yes, the Avs are not simply a player or two away. They have a number of holes to fill, and have a couple of really important players who need to massively step up their games. The rebuild is likely going to take longer than most people expected, unfortunately.


Last edited by ABasin: 04-22-2013 at 11:42 AM.
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04-22-2013, 12:04 PM
  #466
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You know who I'm worried about Kroenke hiring, if he fires PL and Sherman? Given his lack of knowledge in the hockey community, he'll lilely just pick the most popular name.

And who's the most high profile GM out there, that has also fallen into a stanley cup to put on his resume? Yea, that guy. Not that I don't want PL gone, but I have a bad feeling we'll probably end up with Brian Burke as President/GM if the front office is cleaned out.
I disagree. The Kroenke family is pretty smart business wise. In that sort of arena if you don't know something, you don't assume, you find somebody to point you in the right direction. That is what would happen if PL was fired (which he won't be). The Kroenke's will hire a group of consultants to find the best people for the organization.

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04-22-2013, 12:11 PM
  #467
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I disagree. The Kroenke family is pretty smart business wise. In that sort of arena if you don't know something, you don't assume, you find somebody to point you in the right direction. That is what would happen if PL was fired (which he won't be). The Kroenke's will hire a group of consultants to find the best people for the organization.
The proof's not in the pudding though. If they wanted to be smart business wise in the sense where they wanted to make sure they had the right people running things, PL would have been gone a long time ago, and Sacco never would have got an extension.

Kroenke doesn't have any sense of the nuances in hockey, and can't tell the difference. All he sees is PL's stanley cup rings, and he can do no wrong. They may hire some consultants, but he'll go for a Burke type just because he has a ring, and he's got the spotlight on him.

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04-22-2013, 12:25 PM
  #468
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The proof's not in the pudding though. If they wanted to be smart business wise in the sense where they wanted to make sure they had the right people running things, PL would have been gone a long time ago, and Sacco never would have got an extension.

Kroenke doesn't have any sense of the nuances in hockey, and can't tell the difference. All he sees is PL's stanley cup rings, and he can do no wrong. They may hire some consultants, but he'll go for a Burke type just because he has a ring, and he's got the spotlight on him.
It is obvious the Kroenke family believes in PL, and really I can't say I blame them too much in that. 2 cup rings speak loudly. As long as they trust PL to run the organization they will not get in the way of running things (the last thing you want is an owner that forces things down that the rest of the organization doesn't agree with). If they decide to fire PL, I'm sure they will bring in the best they can for the money they offer.

The Kroenke familly has done a pretty damn good job of building the Nuggets into a solid franchise. If they really want to, they can do the same for the Avalanche.

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04-22-2013, 03:16 PM
  #469
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It is obvious the Kroenke family believes in PL, and really I can't say I blame them too much in that. 2 cup rings speak loudly. As long as they trust PL to run the organization they will not get in the way of running things (the last thing you want is an owner that forces things down that the rest of the organization doesn't agree with). If they decide to fire PL, I'm sure they will bring in the best they can for the money they offer.

The Kroenke familly has done a pretty damn good job of building the Nuggets into a solid franchise. If they really want to, they can do the same for the Avalanche.
Here's the thing though--the Kroenkes have been active in directing the Nuggets without being meddlesome (i.e. Snider/Melnyk) so I don't see them doing anything like that with the Avs. The problem I have with their trust in Lacroix is that it's completely blind nowadays. I get it too--the guy has a sterling reputation in the hockey world despite the fact the franchise hasn't won a Cup in 12 years and counting--but I don't see how in hell they can continue with their policy of salutary neglect in light of the embarrassing situations the team has found themselves in this season. Between the O'Reilly situation, Sacco's clear incompetence, and Giguere's callout of the team, they're willfully ignoring things if they don't do anything about it.

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04-22-2013, 03:32 PM
  #470
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Here's the thing though--the Kroenkes have been active in directing the Nuggets without being meddlesome (i.e. Snider/Melnyk) so I don't see them doing anything like that with the Avs. The problem I have with their trust in Lacroix is that it's completely blind nowadays. I get it too--the guy has a sterling reputation in the hockey world despite the fact the franchise hasn't won a Cup in 12 years and counting--but I don't see how in hell they can continue with their policy of salutary neglect in light of the embarrassing situations the team has found themselves in this season. Between the O'Reilly situation, Sacco's clear incompetence, and Giguere's callout of the team, they're willfully ignoring things if they don't do anything about it.
We don't know if they are not going to do anything about it yet. If it comes next season and nothing has changed, then you can blast them. This season has made it obvious that at least 1 change needs to be made, Sacco, and a second one is really possible, Sherman.

Their trust in Lacroix is understandable. The guy won 2 cups and routinely had a cup contending team. Then the salary cap killed the roster and there was not enough prospect depth to deal with the change so the team eventually had to rebuild. Now the rebuild has had a couple of bumps, but nothing too severe yet. If you change your full structure now, it is almost like admitting this rebuild was a failure and it might be time to start over again. There is too much young talent on this team to do that, but if that happens in a couple years, I would be that PL is one of the first to be fired.

As for not winning a cup in 12 years... there are a lot of teams on that list. Talk about spoiled fans. Since the Avs won, the only teams to win the cup are: New Jersey, Detroit, Tampa, Carolina, Anaheim, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Boston, and LA. Teams like Philly, Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, NYR, etc. are all in the same boat in not winning a cup in the same period or longer.

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04-22-2013, 03:48 PM
  #471
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We don't know if they are not going to do anything about it yet. If it comes next season and nothing has changed, then you can blast them. This season has made it obvious that at least 1 change needs to be made, Sacco, and a second one is really possible, Sherman.

Their trust in Lacroix is understandable. The guy won 2 cups and routinely had a cup contending team. Then the salary cap killed the roster and there was not enough prospect depth to deal with the change so the team eventually had to rebuild. Now the rebuild has had a couple of bumps, but nothing too severe yet. If you change your full structure now, it is almost like admitting this rebuild was a failure and it might be time to start over again. There is too much young talent on this team to do that, but if that happens in a couple years, I would be that PL is one of the first to be fired.

As for not winning a cup in 12 years... there are a lot of teams on that list. Talk about spoiled fans. Since the Avs won, the only teams to win the cup are: New Jersey, Detroit, Tampa, Carolina, Anaheim, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Boston, and LA. Teams like Philly, Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, NYR, etc. are all in the same boat in not winning a cup in the same period or longer.
It's true--we're spoiled. Horribly spoiled. Just saying the luster has waned a bit since Lacroix's heyday, and that some of his insufferable tendencies toward nepotism and a terribly insular culture were things he could get away with before, but have become intolerable now. What drives me up the wall is that he stepped back from day-to-day duties due to health issues, yet has apparently not been willing to loosen the reins enough to let this franchise evolve without him. I'll admit that's a lot of conjecture on my part, but based on what I've read, it appears to be the case.

Lacroix does not need to win another Cup for me to get off his case--I ask for the same thing I asked for this season and didn't get: PROGRESS. I just want to see this rebuild working. And given the missteps this team took all season long, I'm not at all sure this is the case. If nothing changes this offseason, then yeah, I'll be even more vocal than before--but I'm reasonably confident that the axe will fall at least once, if not twice this offseason.

Also, I'd like to see some sort of evidence that Lacroix is not as insular and incestuous as he has been in years past. I'd like to see the organization bring in new blood from elsewhere and quit promoting from within. If Eric Lacroix is the team's next GM, it will confirm what I believe about Pierre.

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04-22-2013, 04:08 PM
  #472
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This year was a let down after last year, but that actually puts us back on schedule because this team overachieved in year one of the rebuild. Year two we collapsed in the second half of the season and picked up a high pick. Year 3 we made a big move to see how our kids could do being serious about making a run and filling one of our biggest holes. And now we had year 4 in which we tanked a shortened season.

Sacco needs to go, but if Greg from accounting does that and makes a shrewd addition to go with our high pick. This team would be ready to smart making runs in year 5 of the rebuild, just as they should be.

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04-22-2013, 04:11 PM
  #473
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This year was a let down after last year, but that actually puts us back on schedule because this team overachieved in year one of the rebuild. Year two we collapsed in the second half of the season and picked up a high pick. Year 3 we made a big move to see how our kids could do being serious about making a run and filling one of our biggest holes. And now we had year 4 in which we tanked a shortened season.

Sacco needs to go, but if Greg from accounting does that and makes a shrewd addition to go with our high pick. This team would be ready to smart making runs in year 5 of the rebuild, just as they should be.
Does buying out one of the one-way contract d-men count as a shrewd addition?

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04-22-2013, 04:15 PM
  #474
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Does buying out one of the one-way contract d-men count as a shrewd addition?
I was thinking more along the lines of signing Scuderi, Belov or another varly esque trade, but getting rid of Zanon would be a dream come true as well. HunnyBunny's shown he can eat nachos like a champ.

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04-22-2013, 04:33 PM
  #475
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This year was a let down after last year, but that actually puts us back on schedule because this team overachieved in year one of the rebuild. Year two we collapsed in the second half of the season and picked up a high pick. Year 3 we made a big move to see how our kids could do being serious about making a run and filling one of our biggest holes. And now we had year 4 in which we tanked a shortened season.

Sacco needs to go, but if Greg from accounting does that and makes a shrewd addition to go with our high pick. This team would be ready to smart making runs in year 5 of the rebuild, just as they should be.
I mean no offense, but I don't see how anyone can believe that the Avs are one UFA player and one draft pick away from 'making runs' next season. Making runs at what? The 9-11 seed playoff bubble?

I do agree with you that the current set of players playing at a much higher level is unlikely if they don't change the coach. A number of players need to up their play.

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