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Who should we draft?

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Old
04-20-2013, 07:18 PM
  #326
triggrman
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Is Elias Lindholm that for behing the ones labelled elite?

Is Barkov?

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04-20-2013, 07:20 PM
  #327
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I think comparing MacKinnon to Duchene is tempering expectations.

None of them are elite...

...yet.

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04-20-2013, 07:34 PM
  #328
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Mackinnon has a way more complete game than duchene, way more hype and has been talked about for years before this draft. I have heard him compared to a lot of star NHLers but never once duchene,

Where do you get this comparison from?!?!

And for the person above that asked who is considered to be elite out of this draft, it's drouin mackinnon and jones in no particular order.

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04-20-2013, 08:12 PM
  #329
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Drouin, Nichushkin and Jones are the only elite talent in the draft this year as far as I'm concerned. Mackinnon is good, but it's a bit of a tossup whether Barkov or Mackinnon is better. I actually like Barkov better, I have a bad feeling about Mackinnon. If you guys pick 3rd overall, take Jones if he's there or Barkov. But I wouldn't trade up from 5th, just take Lindholm or Barkov. Lindholm will be a 1A or 1B center some day (2 years from now) as will Barkov. Not sure I can say the same about Mackinnon. Also if you pick later then 5th I'd suggest Erne, Mantha or Gauthier depending on where you pick. (:

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04-20-2013, 08:29 PM
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Mackinnon has a way more complete game than duchene, way more hype and has been talked about for years before this draft. I have heard him compared to a lot of star NHLers but never once duchene,

Where do you get this comparison from?!?!

And for the person above that asked who is considered to be elite out of this draft, it's drouin mackinnon and jones in no particular order.
on the prospect board, that seems to be the consensus comparison.

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04-20-2013, 09:04 PM
  #331
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Is there any possibility poile would consider nichushkin? After the whole radulov thing?

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04-20-2013, 09:11 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Is there any possibility poile would consider nichushkin? After the whole radulov thing?
Zero

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04-20-2013, 09:29 PM
  #333
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All of the talk about how we need to tank to get a top pick ignore reality about how those picks tend to perform. Failing for Nail got the same goal scoring this season as Legwand. Nugent-Hopkins .... 22g in 102 GP ... again, very Legwand-esque. That isn't to say those younger players don't have more upside right now, but, their current performance is not a significant upgrade over the perennial whipping boy.

Looking back at the past couple decades of performance ... expecting a point per game player is counting on a rarity. That is what people are actively cheering against a team they claim to be a fan of to get.

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04-20-2013, 09:54 PM
  #334
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Cheering against the team or not, either way we all know that with the amount of games left and the position we are currently in, it will be exciting to watch the draft! We never get this high of a pick, and it's awesome that we will get to select a top five pick in such a talented class of forwards.

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04-20-2013, 10:10 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
All of the talk about how we need to tank to get a top pick ignore reality about how those picks tend to perform. Failing for Nail got the same goal scoring this season as Legwand. Nugent-Hopkins .... 22g in 102 GP ... again, very Legwand-esque. That isn't to say those younger players don't have more upside right now, but, their current performance is not a significant upgrade over the perennial whipping boy.

Looking back at the past couple decades of performance ... expecting a point per game player is counting on a rarity. That is what people are actively cheering against a team they claim to be a fan of to get.
What is more likely? We get a decent center via the draft or via free agency/trade?

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04-20-2013, 10:12 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Cheering against the team or not, either way we all know that with the amount of games left and the position we are currently in, it will be exciting to watch the draft! We never get this high of a pick, and it's awesome that we will get to select a top five pick in such a talented class of forwards.


This we all know applies to maybe 10 people who post here ALOT. This is my first post in 4 days but I have watched the comical reactions of the TANK or bust people here with much amusment. The opinon of the young players in the organization has changed by the hour. One person states tyhat a wholeale rebuild is not needed but wants to have a top line necxt year of Wilson FF and this draft choice witha second line of Watson Legwand and Borque and a third line with Smith Hornqvist and Beck ANd the 4th from the remaining people from the roster. This is a huge rebuild and I didn't touch the defense.

This type team will fair about as good as the Oil or Ave's from this year. This is not a very good team right now even if all the injured players were back. Beck and Bartley have been the lone two who look to be ready for next year. FF will play here but there is not two other forwards to put with him to match his skillset so he will not be as effective as he could be.

I understand this opinion is not popular nor was my opinion of the team the first of the year and I do not pretend that it will be taken seriously but to humor myself I offer it out there just to enjoy the flammable reactions it will get.

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04-20-2013, 10:20 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
This type team will fair about as good as the Oil or Ave's from this year. This is not a very good team right now even if all the injured players were back. Beck and Bartley have been the lone two who look to be ready for next year. FF will play here but there is not two other forwards to put with him to match his skillset so he will not be as effective as he could be.
Agree on this. Beck, Bartley, and FF should be the only ones to earn spots out of camp next year. Bang, Watson, Mueller, Ekholm, Henderson, and whoever else is up here is nice to have as depth, but they are not ready (if they ever will be) for a full time roster spot.

There is an interesting divide in the fanbase right now over this "tanking" thing. I certainly can see both sides, but I lean towards this: I hope the guys come out and give it all every night, no excuses. But at the same time, I hope we lose those games. I don't want anyone to quit, and if we win, great, but it is better for this franchise to skate their arses off and still get beat.

Starting day 1 of next year, I'll be cheering as loud as anyone for us to win. I just want the cup here, and losing makes that closer to a reality than winning.

As for who we should draft, we have got to find a way to get Mackinnon in a Preds jersey, if at all possible.

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04-20-2013, 10:27 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
This we all know applies to maybe 10 people who post here ALOT. This is my first post in 4 days but I have watched the comical reactions of the TANK or bust people here with much amusment. The opinon of the young players in the organization has changed by the hour. One person states tyhat a wholeale rebuild is not needed but wants to have a top line necxt year of Wilson FF and this draft choice witha second line of Watson Legwand and Borque and a third line with Smith Hornqvist and Beck ANd the 4th from the remaining people from the roster. This is a huge rebuild and I didn't touch the defense.

This type team will fair about as good as the Oil or Ave's from this year. This is not a very good team right now even if all the injured players were back. Beck and Bartley have been the lone two who look to be ready for next year. FF will play here but there is not two other forwards to put with him to match his skillset so he will not be as effective as he could be.

I understand this opinion is not popular nor was my opinion of the team the first of the year and I do not pretend that it will be taken seriously but to humor myself I offer it out there just to enjoy the flammable reactions it will get.

I think Wilson had shown he can be a top line talent and was starting to live up to his hype before getting hurt. If you think FF has nobody of equal skillset to play with then I would have to disagree as we will most likely acquire one if drouin, mackinnon, barkov, or Lindholm and along with Wilson they are all very talented forwards, maybe not all first line ready, but very good.

Plus after unloading erat, we have lots of extra cap space we didnt before. And cap will be going down so some teams will have to make traded to be cap compliant. I could see this team being pretty damn good next season with the addition of a top four defender and a top six forward.

Example of team we could see,

Forwards,
Top six,
Wilson, FF, '13 top five pick, top six free agent, beck, hornqvist,
Bottom six,
legwand, fisher, gaustad, bourque, clune, spaling/Hali.

13th forward : Watson

I saw we move one of spaling/Hali, and move sk74 for a bag of picks of its available.

Defense,

Weber, josi
Top 4 ufa, Klein
Gill Blum/Ellis

7th dman : Bartley

I think that's a pretty solid team all backed up by rinne in net! I just don't know where Craig smith fits in.

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04-20-2013, 10:31 PM
  #339
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What is more likely? We get a decent center via the draft or via free agency/trade?
Define "decent" and specify the timeframe you're talking about for this player to perform at that level.

If expectations are a PPG player ... plan on disappointment. The last top forward drafted to perform at that level is Stamkos from 2008. Fail for Nail resulted in a first year of Legwand like performance. The 2011 #1 overall has four goals so far this season. Tavares is close to a PPG guy, but not there and his presence hasn't made the Isles a winner yet.

Without seeing who ends up on the market via compliance buyouts there is no way to guess who is available on the FA market this summer. Maybe those teams try to move players for picks and prospects rather than lose them for nothing via buyouts, but, we're still too far out to know.

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04-20-2013, 10:38 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Define "decent" and specify the timeframe you're talking about for this player to perform at that level.

If expectations are a PPG player ... plan on disappointment. The last top forward drafted to perform at that level is Stamkos from 2008. Fail for Nail resulted in a first year of Legwand like performance. The 2011 #1 overall has four goals so far this season. Tavares is close to a PPG guy, but not there and his presence hasn't made the Isles a winner yet.

Without seeing who ends up on the market via compliance buyouts there is no way to guess who is available on the FA market this summer. Maybe those teams try to move players for picks and prospects rather than lose them for nothing via buyouts, but, we're still too far out to know.

On a side note though. Tavares has islanders in playoffs, stamkos has lightning looking at a top five pick.

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04-20-2013, 10:44 PM
  #341
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For UFAS look at
Hawks
Flyers Nucks
Bruins
Habs
Wild
Pens

These teams are in a pickle and will need to shed a larger salary some more than one for the simple fact of being able to sign enough players to meet the minimum. Preds could sign a nice piece but would need to be very selective and should be able to. DP does not need to eat a salary for a one year deal or an overpaid declining forward. This could be the road block but there will be some nice pieces out there.

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04-20-2013, 11:25 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
All of the talk about how we need to tank to get a top pick ignore reality about how those picks tend to perform. Failing for Nail got the same goal scoring this season as Legwand. Nugent-Hopkins .... 22g in 102 GP ... again, very Legwand-esque. That isn't to say those younger players don't have more upside right now, but, their current performance is not a significant upgrade over the perennial whipping boy.

Looking back at the past couple decades of performance ... expecting a point per game player is counting on a rarity. That is what people are actively cheering against a team they claim to be a fan of to get.
I personally view it as two different ways of rooting for the team and, while I don't agree with your view, I don't want to rehash the argument.

However, I think your argument is pretty obviously flawed by setting a falsely high standard to show why "tanking" isn't "worth it".

First, I didn't see anyone saying they expect a PPG player but rather a higher pick. Second, you picked guys that are super early in their careers that aren't PPG- but there is no doubt we would still love to have them on the team for free though. In fact, the league is littered with guys like John Tavares, Pat Kane, Matt Duchene that aren't (yet) PPG players that we would kill to have on our team.

What I saw people say were:
1. Virtually every team that has won the cup in the last 10 years or so has had a top 3 pick
2. The difference between winning out and losing out is likely the 3rd pick instead of the 9th pick.

On that basis, here is a better comparison than the PPG straw man:

3 spot vs 9 spot since Preds entered the league:

1998 Brad Stuart vs. Mike Rupp (advantage #3)
1999 H Sedin vs J Lundmark (huge advantage #3)
2000 M. Gaborik vs B Krahn (huge advantage #3)
2001 Svitov vs T Rutuu (huge advantage #9)
2002 Boumeester vs. Taticek (huge advantage #3)
2003 Horton vs. Phaneuf (toss up)
2004 Barker vs. Smid (toss up)
2005 J Johnson vs B. Lee (advantage #3)
2006 J. Toews vs J Sheppard (huge advantage #3)
2007 K Turris vs Logan Couture (huge advantage #9)
2008 Bogosian vs. Bailey (advantage #3)
2009 Duchene vs J. Cowan (huge advantage #3)
2010 Gudbranson vs Granlund (advantage #3)

9-2-2 record, including some huge blowouts. This doesn't consider the players that were available between 3 and 9 in those years.

Is the potential draft improvement worth three end of the year losses? Pretty clearly yes. Is it worth rooting for those losses as a fan? Every fan (and we are all fans) can decide for himself or herself.

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04-20-2013, 11:38 PM
  #343
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Preds are still in 25th after Carolina lost again tonight. Carolina and Tampa play each other tomorrow. Best case scenerio is Carolina winning in OT and they both go around the preds and we drop to 28th. Regardless of who wins we drop to at least 27th tomorrow.

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04-21-2013, 07:40 AM
  #344
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Top three -Jones, MacKinnon, Droiun - then drop off -next Barkov- then drop off- next Nichushkin- then bigger drop off - Monahan, Nurse, Lindholm maybe more. Re Nichuskin. He's big and can really skate. GMs really need to do their homework and make sure he will come over. Nichcuskin, if he wants to play in North America, is probably higher than five.

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04-21-2013, 08:54 AM
  #345
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Top three -Jones, MacKinnon, Droiun - then drop off -next Barkov- then drop off- next Nichushkin- then bigger drop off - Monahan, Nurse, Lindholm maybe more. Re Nichuskin. He's big and can really skate. GMs really need to do their homework and make sure he will come over. Nichcuskin, if he wants to play in North America, is probably higher than five.
Don't want Radulov 2.0

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04-21-2013, 10:01 AM
  #346
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Hopefully Tampa Bay and Carolina goes into overtime. That would help us get at least top 3.

Also keep in mind that there might be a run on defense like last year and we could pick the first forward, its unlikely but possible.

For me I want Mackinnon, Drouin, Barkov, or Lindholm and I would be happy.

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04-21-2013, 10:22 AM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Webersmashpuck View Post
Hopefully Tampa Bay and Carolina goes into overtime. That would help us get at least top 3.

Also keep in mind that there might be a run on defense like last year and we could pick the first forward, its unlikely but possible.

For me I want Mackinnon, Drouin, Barkov, or Lindholm and I would be happy.

A run on dmen would be awesome! But I just don't see it happening with guys available like Mack, drouin, barkov, Lindholm, monahan, etc.

I think we pick whichever forward is available in this order.
1. Mack
2. Drouin
3. Barkov
4. Lindholm
5. Monahan

Keep in mind that this isn't the top five, I still think between those picks will be nichushkin and obviously jones, potentially nurse as well.

I still have a feeling poile will get into the top three whether we finish that low or via trade, but I think you see drouin or Mack in the gold next season.

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04-21-2013, 10:36 AM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
For UFAS look at
Hawks
Flyers Nucks
Bruins
Habs
Wild
Pens

These teams are in a pickle and will need to shed a larger salary some more than one for the simple fact of being able to sign enough players to meet the minimum. Preds could sign a nice piece but would need to be very selective and should be able to. DP does not need to eat a salary for a one year deal or an overpaid declining forward. This could be the road block but there will be some nice pieces out there.
Hawks- are fine as long as they let one of Stalberg or Bickell go
Bruins- won't re-sign Jagr or Horton, which will get them where they need to be
Flyers- Plan to amnesty one of Briere or Bryzgalov
Canucks- are fine, but can't re-sign Roy. MAY need to trade Ballard.
Habs- can't afford to re-sign Ryder for much(if any) raise, but could also trade broken down Gionta
Wild- is rumored to try to trade Heatley's last year, if not they'll buy him out and be fine.
Pens- won't resign Morrow; will sign Iginla if possible, and if necessary trade Paul Martin

I think a lot is being made of "cap teams making players available," but it's being exaggerated.

As for the draft..big game in Tampa\Carolina tonight. Would love it to go three points, but it should temporarily move us into fourth tonight either way.

I am starting to believe that Carolina is legitimately losing on purpose.

As I've been saying on Twitter...with the Preds not taking Nichushkin, there are only 3 legit "top line" forwards in this draft...Drouin, Mackinnon, Barkov. All three will likely go in the top four, which leaves "good" talent, but not "elite": Monahan, Lindholm, Shinkaruk, Erne.

It would be really nice to land in that 3 or 4 spot.

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04-21-2013, 10:37 AM
  #349
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Originally Posted by Webersmashpuck View Post
Hopefully Tampa Bay and Carolina goes into overtime. That would help us get at least top 3.

Also keep in mind that there might be a run on defense like last year and we could pick the first forward, its unlikely but possible.

For me I want Mackinnon, Drouin, Barkov, or Lindholm and I would be happy.
there will be a run on D, but it will be in the bottom of the top 10. Some great names...Nurse, Zadorov, Ristolainen, Pulock...but they're not top five picks, they're more like high end second pairing guys.

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04-21-2013, 10:38 AM
  #350
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Don't want Radulov 2.0
To an extent I agree, but he's probably the second most talented forward in the draft. I would at least give him an interview and a chance to sell himself.

For every Radulov, there's a Tarasenko or a Yakupov.

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