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2013 Draft Discussion Part 2

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Old
04-20-2013, 08:46 PM
  #851
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Dropped to 8th--2 points ahead of EDM, with the tiebreaker.

Best we can realistically do at this point is 7th going into the lottery (with quite a bit of help), but maybe we're just banking on karma.
I guess I'm ok with that. Fact is we are not as bad as those teams below us. There will be something good for us at 8th. A lot of teams would die for our current roster. We aren't that far off really

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04-20-2013, 08:53 PM
  #852
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I guess I'm ok with that. Fact is we are not as bad as those teams below us. There will be something good for us at 8th. A lot of teams would die for our current roster. We aren't that far off really
Carolina is not bad on paper either, and EDM is just a joke.

I think I can handle any of the other teams ahead of us winning the lottery.

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04-20-2013, 09:08 PM
  #853
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Carolina is not bad on paper either, and EDM is just a joke.

I think I can handle any of the other teams ahead of us winning the lottery.
I swear if edm wins the lotery again and has success finally they may catch more hate for tanking than the pens.

Sucks but it's nice to be a fan of a prideful org

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Old
04-20-2013, 09:12 PM
  #854
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From what I've heard about Zadorov, I guess I'd be happy with him. A lot of people on the forums seem to see a ton of potential in him. I Really wanted the flyers to get Nurse though. That's looking like a long shot every time we win a meaningless game.

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04-20-2013, 09:13 PM
  #855
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I swear if edm wins the lotery again and has success finally they may catch more hate for tanking than the pens.

Sucks but it's nice to be a fan of a prideful org
For all the crap EDM gets, TBL could easily end up with Stamkos (1st), Hedman (2nd), and Jones (1st) over the span of 5 draft years.

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From what I've heard about Zadorov, I guess I'd be happy with him. A lot of people on the forums seem to see a ton of potential in him. I Really wanted the flyers to get Nurse though. That's looking like a long shot every time we win a meaningless game.
If you have to pick a year to slip from #5 to #10, this might be it.

Zadorov or Ristolainen could easily end up being better than Nurse. I'm basically just deferring to those who have seen the guys play, but it seems like both have better offensive games than Nurse at this point--though some of that has to do with Nurse's role this year.

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04-20-2013, 10:10 PM
  #856
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Carolina is not bad on paper either, and EDM is just a joke.

I think I can handle any of the other teams ahead of us winning the lottery.
Carolina's D is awful along with their goaltending. I think the Staals are kind of overrated also.

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04-20-2013, 10:18 PM
  #857
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Looks like best case scenario at this point is 6th. Worst case would probably be 11th unless they won out or something.

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Old
04-20-2013, 10:27 PM
  #858
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Looks like best case scenario at this point is 6th. Worst case would probably be 11th unless they won out or something.
Basically.

If you simply project PPG out over the remainder of the year (setting aside match-ups)
Quote:
30 (1). FLA - 37 points
29 (2). COL - 38 points
28 (3). CAR - 40 points
27 (4). TBL - 41 points
26 (5). NSH - 41 points
25 (6). CGY - 44 points
24 (7). EDM - 46 points
23 (8). PHI - 46 points
22 (9). BUF - 47 points
21 (10). NJD - 48 points
20 (11). PHX - 50 points
19 (12). DAL - 51 points
...
Not perfect--CAR and TBL play each other, as do a few others--but that basic projection gives you a sense of what's reasonable. Even 6th is pushing it, really. We would need someone at the bottom to catch fire (in relative terms) during the last week.

7th - 9th would seem the most likely range.

For those who are wondering,

Quote:
30th place: 25.0%
29th place: 18.8%
28th place: 14.2%
27th place: 10.7%
26th place: 8.1%
25th place: 6.2%
24th place: 4.7%
23rd place: 3.6%
22nd place: 2.7%
21st place: 2.1%
20th place: 1.5%
19th place: 1.1%
...
Good news? Our lottery odds don't change drastically, and we're unlikely to get bumped further down.

Bad news? Our lottery odds suck.


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04-20-2013, 10:28 PM
  #859
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Carolina's D is awful along with their goaltending. I think the Staals are kind of overrated also.
Well their defense may suck but Ward is injured. He was a major loss for them.

And while I've always found Jordan Staal to be a little overrated, I don't think Eric Staal is overrated at all.

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04-20-2013, 10:37 PM
  #860
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Tonight was a stretch to believe we were going to lose. Carolina is just awful.

But I really could see us losing against NYI, BOS and OTT.

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04-20-2013, 10:50 PM
  #861
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From what ive read about Zadarov it doesnt seem like he has great offensive potential. Not really interested in another Coburn.

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04-20-2013, 10:58 PM
  #862
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Well their defense may suck but Ward is injured. He was a major loss for them.

And while I've always found Jordan Staal to be a little overrated, I don't think Eric Staal is overrated at all.
Part of the reason I find E. Staal overrated is that a Penguins writer said to me on twitter that he's better than Giroux and it's not even close.

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Old
04-20-2013, 11:11 PM
  #863
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Part of the reason I find E. Staal overrated is that a Penguins writer said to me on twitter that he's better than Giroux and it's not even close.
Was it that one guy Josh something? If so that guys ridiculous. He's like Bob Errey but writes articles.

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Old
04-20-2013, 11:14 PM
  #864
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From what ive read about Zadarov it doesnt seem like he has great offensive potential. Not really interested in another Coburn.
That's not necessarily true. He has high upside all around. He has pretty good offensive tools. This year he was given a shutdown role because London had a lot of guys that were already established in front of him. He has shown some nice offensive flashes during the playoffs this year so far. When some of those guys on the blueline leave next year for the pros then Zadorov will be given a chance to play in all situations.


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Old
04-20-2013, 11:19 PM
  #865
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
That's not true at all. He has high upside all around. He's a good skater with a good shot. He wasn't given an opportunity offensively on a stacked London blueline. With guys leaving for the pros he should be given that chance next year.
Eh, I think just overall his offensive "look". I know BCF likes him a lot, but his first pass and overall puck-moving ability is pretty average. Now of course it could grow like every other player, but at the moment, that's the main reason he is a 8-13 draft pick. If he had the whole package with everything else some people are stating he would up in the discussion with Nurse or maybe even Jones. But there is a reason he isnt. It's easy to state its because he was behind a stacked Knights team, but it's easy to make the same statement for many other players, like Risto behind a bunch of men in a mens league or Lindholm behind men in a mens league etc etc.

Dont get me wrong, if they draft him I'd 100% be fine with it, but lets not ignore the faults he does have. His draft profile is very similar to Coburns. People said the same thing about Coburns offensive ability.

In the end though, I am a Risto fan. I think he is a safer pick with maybe not as "high" potential as Zadarov but has a greater chance of reaching his.

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Old
04-20-2013, 11:29 PM
  #866
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Eh, I think just overall his offensive "look". I know BCF likes him a lot, but his first pass and overall puck-moving ability is pretty average. Now of course it could grow like every other player, but at the moment, that's the main reason he is a 8-13 draft pick. If he had the whole package with everything else some people are stating he would up in the discussion with Nurse or maybe even Jones. But there is a reason he isnt. It's easy to state its because he was behind a stacked Knights team, but it's easy to make the same statement for many other players, like Risto behind a bunch of men in a mens league or Lindholm behind men in a mens league etc etc.

Dont get me wrong, if they draft him I'd 100% be fine with it, but lets not ignore the faults he does have.
Yeah he has some flaws but he's pretty raw right now also. I wouldn't say he's limited offensively though. The tools are there, it's just whether or not he develops and takes them to the next level. At this point he's a high risk, potential high reward compared to Rist who's a safer pick of the two but doesn't have the ceiling like Zadorov.

It should be easier to have these prospect debates next week when know our fate in the lottery.

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Old
04-20-2013, 11:30 PM
  #867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
That's not true at all. He has high upside all around. He has pretty good offensive tools. This year he was given a shutdown role because London had a lot of guys that were already established in front of him. He has shown some nice offensive flashes during the playoffs this year so far. When some of those guys on the blueline leave next year for the pros then Zadorov will be given a chance to play in all situations.
If he's good defensively and just doesn't SUCK offensively, I'd be happy with Zadorov. I'd still prefer Nurse though. Seems like a more complete player with a higher ceiling.

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04-20-2013, 11:35 PM
  #868
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If he's good defensively and just doesn't SUCK offensively, I'd be happy with Zadorov. I'd still prefer Nurse though. Seems like a more complete player with a higher ceiling.
Nurse has a pretty high ceiling himself. He's also more polished than Zadorov at this point. I wish we somehow end up with Nurse but I'm not counting on it.

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04-20-2013, 11:37 PM
  #869
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
If he's good defensively and just doesn't SUCK offensively, I'd be happy with Zadorov. I'd still prefer Nurse though. Seems like a more complete player with a higher ceiling.
I think the Zadorov v. Ristolainen discussion is premised on Nurse being off the board.

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04-20-2013, 11:43 PM
  #870
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I think the Zadorov v. Ristolainen discussion is premised on Nurse being off the board.
Yeah. I'd probably take Z of Ristolainen, but I certainly wouldn't be upset about Ristolainen.

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04-20-2013, 11:56 PM
  #871
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At this point, barring winning the lottery, I see this pick getting packaged for someone.

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04-21-2013, 12:17 AM
  #872
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In the end, wouldn't be surprised if someone fell to us or if we reached for someone else depending on where we draft. Remember, at 8 if Couturier didnt fall, strong rumors and almost confirmation was that we were drafting Siemens who was looked at to be drafted around 15 or 16. If Homer likes a player no matter where he is, I think they will take that player. So players like Bo Horvat, Ryan Hartman, Max Domi, Ryan Pulock, Hunter Shinkaruk, Anthony Mantha, etc etc.

I can't remember the last time I wanted the Flyers to take someone at whatever pick they had and they chose someone else.

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04-21-2013, 07:04 AM
  #873
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I remember hearing about Robert Hagg as someone the Flyers are interested in-- however, that may have been due to thinking they were going to be picking later in the 1st round.

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04-21-2013, 07:34 AM
  #874
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I remember hearing about Robert Hagg as someone the Flyers are interested in-- however, that may have been due to thinking they were going to be picking later in the 1st round.
Hagg will more than likely end up being a day two pick. Holmgren had asked Mikael Renberg about Hagg and Renberg gave him a run down on him.

In terms of having the 8th overall choice, there's still a very high chance the Flyers end up with Nurse. Yes, I'm a big Zadorov fan, but if Nurse is available when the Flyers pick 8th, then he'll be the guy. I know that Zadorov is a physical specimen at 18 (6'5, 230 pounds), but when Nurse grows into his frame, he'll be just as imposing (6'5, 205 pounds).

In terms of comparisons, I wouldn't say Zadorov is Coburn 2.0. I'd say Zadorov is more like Zdeno Chara was when he played junior hockey - very good defensively and the raw offensive talent was there, but needed to be cultivated. Nurse is very much like Scott Stevens was when he played junior hockey - defensively adept with great offensive potential and a mean SOB.

As far as I'm concerned, the Flyers can't go wrong with either guy. If they end up moving the pick, it's only because they've acquired that elusive young puck moving defenseman with number one upside.

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04-21-2013, 07:46 AM
  #875
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Hagg will more than likely end up being a day two pick. Holmgren had asked Mikael Renberg about Hagg and Renberg gave him a run down on him.

In terms of having the 8th overall choice, there's still a very high chance the Flyers end up with Nurse. Yes, I'm a big Zadorov fan, but if Nurse is available when the Flyers pick 8th, then he'll be the guy. I know that Zadorov is a physical specimen at 18 (6'5, 230 pounds), but when Nurse grows into his frame, he'll be just as imposing (6'5, 205 pounds).

In terms of comparisons, I wouldn't say Zadorov is Coburn 2.0. I'd say Zadorov is more like Zdeno Chara was when he played junior hockey - very good defensively and the raw offensive talent was there, but needed to be cultivated. Nurse is very much like Scott Stevens was when he played junior hockey - defensively adept with great offensive potential and a mean SOB.

As far as I'm concerned, the Flyers can't go wrong with either guy. If they end up moving the pick, it's only because they've acquired that elusive young puck moving defenseman with number one upside.
I wish I could 'like' your posts.

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