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Old
04-11-2013, 09:01 PM
  #101
Bender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
The only thing that Kroenke would be guilty of is keeping Lacroix. So if you think Lacroix isn't the issue, then Kroenke isn't either. The coaching issue is a huge issue that most have with Lacroix. Lacroix will not hire the best available coach, he hires people he knows. Sherman, IMO makes absolutely no hockey decisions. I've stated my opinion a bunch of times, but I think Sherman was originally brought in to be Roy's assistant and when that fell through they just said screw it, we will hire him anyways. I think the front office has done a nice job on the ice, getting good young players where we had deficiencies. But they have done a horrible job of the development side of things. They are not hiring the best qualified people, and we are seeing the results. They NEED to hire a good coach and teacher, with discipline who commands respect. The next coach is a huge step for this franchise. You mess this one up and you may burn bridges with Duchene, EJ, Varly, and ROR. FO better get their **** together.

I think Lacroix being at the last game is a good sign. They are re-evaluating this team and I am assuming there will be some changes made.
Sherman - day-to-day operations of the team.
Lacroix - trades and player decisions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Giguere was probably the worst GM in the history of GMs, and there is no excuse from hiring coaches within the organization, but he was always bad for having average to below average coaches except for Coach Q.

Though I still do not understand the Sherman hate. Thinking he is a puppet under Lacroix is just assumptions and not facts.

What changes in what positions?
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
I've been one of the leaders of the Fire Sacco bandwagon for going on 3 years now. His time came and went long long ago in my books. It started with bad personnel decisions from him, sitting guys on the wrong nights, putting together bad line groupings etc.

Since then, I've really seen that his coaching philosophy lacks a proper system where we can play defensive hockey if needed. If we don't score, we won't win. Successful teams aren't built like that.

Yeah, we made the playoffs once under his tenure, but that year Craig Anderson stood on his head for over half of his starts. We won games but weren't a good team.

He needs to go.


If he doesn't get let go, then I will start calling for the heads up upper-management. I give Sherman the benefit of the doubt, for now, considering some of the deals he's made. I still will support the Johnson trade, for now, at least until we see how Siemens/Rattie etc turn out.

I also support his deals in regards to Quincey for Downie and the Varlamov trades. Those have all been pretty good, in my books. With that being said, did he actually make those trades or is that Lacroix?

That's where the problem lies with upper management for me. It's hard to blame people when you don't know who should take the blame. The hidden agenda, cloak and dagger **** from this management staff is the real problem more than anything.
Lacroix.

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Originally Posted by AslanRH View Post
He'll be a good President one day. Love the support for Giggy, Lando, and the young core.
Came here to post this and to make sure you guys listen to the little note at the end of that interview after the interview ends:

http://player.fm/series/hockey-central-at-noon

Listen at 29:50

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Old
04-11-2013, 09:10 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Came here to post this and to make sure you guys listen to the little note at the end of that interview after the interview ends:

http://player.fm/series/hockey-central-at-noon

Listen at 29:50
Kinda reinforces what we all hate to admit.

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Old
04-11-2013, 09:32 PM
  #103
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Not saying you're wrong Bender because you are probably right, but still Daren Millard, former NHLer Nick Kypreos and former NHL executive Doug MacLean.

But listening to these guys is like watching the full movie of Simple Jack three times.

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Old
04-11-2013, 10:30 PM
  #104
Bender
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Not saying you're wrong Bender because you are probably right, but still Daren Millard, former NHLer Nick Kypreos and former NHL executive Doug MacLean.

But listening to these guys is like watching the full movie of Simple Jack three times.
By no means am I saying that any of these guys are hockey geniuses but they are at the very least, way more connected than Dater can ever hope to be. Doug MacLean has had dealings with Pierre Lacroix in the past (Marc Denis trade etc...).

It's not so much about being great hockey minds as it is knowing the right people to know how certain organizations are run.

There are a lot more organizations that are structured this way than people actually know. The Blue Jackets are currently set up this very same way. Jarmo will still need John Davidson to sign off on player movement. Now granted, Jarmo knows much more about hockey than Greg 'hey, I just got promoted from running the snack stands' Sherman but the structure is still the same.

The Varlamov, Downie and McGinn trades, to me anyways, always seemed like classic Lacroix moves and the O'Reilly negotiations/fiasco removed the less than 1% doubt that I still had that Sherman was his own man at all.

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Old
04-12-2013, 02:40 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Not saying you're wrong Bender because you are probably right, but still Daren Millard, former NHLer Nick Kypreos and former NHL executive Doug MacLean.

But listening to these guys is like watching the full movie of Simple Jack three times.
The only thing worse than listening to that trio, is watching the video. Three of the most obnoxious idiots in hockey. Especially MacLean acting like he's up on a pedestal when he gives his opinion, after the way he ran the Blue Jackets.

That said, even a trio of idiots knows PL needs to go for the Avs to really change course.

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Old
04-12-2013, 02:51 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
To me, it looked like a bad trade then and it looks even worst now. The only way this trade looks better in the short term is if Siemens becomes a reliable top 4 dman, otherwise is a complete failure.
Yep. Avs got an OK player, but gave up two darn good ones.

Too bad.

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Old
04-12-2013, 02:52 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post

Came here to post this and to make sure you guys listen to the little note at the end of that interview after the interview ends:

http://player.fm/series/hockey-central-at-noon

Listen at 29:50
That's profoundly depressing, but not in the least surprising.

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Old
04-12-2013, 03:05 PM
  #108
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moved a quick question to the EJ thread.

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Old
04-16-2013, 01:11 PM
  #109
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Not sure if this is the right thread but

Quote:
13. I'm careful with Colorado, because the Avalanche operate very secretly. It's hard to say what this organization is going to do. I do believe Sakic's been asked before to take an increased role, but decided he wasn't ready. There were two reasons: he wants to make sure he's fully prepared and wants to be an involved father to his three children.
Quote:
14. Sakic did attend at least one major Board of Governors meeting during the lockout, which led to speculation he's considering more responsibility. If you look at Elway's job with the Broncos, he's not the day-to-day general manager. He oversees the "big picture," like convincing Peyton Manning to go there. Sakic's children are teenagers now. Can he balance family with the "Elway role?" That's the key.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...up-oilers.html

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Old
04-16-2013, 01:46 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
Not sure if this is the right thread but





http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...up-oilers.html
I read this as well. I'd love to have Sakic calling some players personally. The only problem is that most NHL players don't have the class to respect somebody calling them in the way Manning did with Elway. A lot of players these days are known to follow the money. Doesn't matter who they play for.

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Old
04-16-2013, 01:50 PM
  #111
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I would rather have Sakic as GM than EL, but considering how bad PL's health issues are, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he wants to make his son GM and hope he has a long and good job security career before he dies.

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Old
04-16-2013, 02:18 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
I would rather have Sakic as GM than EL, but considering how bad PL's health issues are, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he wants to make his son GM and hope he has a long and good job security career before he dies.
I hope PL lives for ever. Rooting for science here.

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Old
04-17-2013, 09:12 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Sherman - day-to-day operations of the team.
Lacroix - trades and player decisions. Lacroix.

Came here to post this and to make sure you guys listen to the little note at the end of that interview after the interview ends:

http://player.fm/series/hockey-central-at-noon

Listen at 29:50
Demoralizing when you realize that the root cause of what ails this franchise is the guy(s) in charge and their operating principles and that those guys, or their progeny, are still making the major decisions and will probably be doing so for quite a while longer.

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Old
04-20-2013, 11:38 PM
  #114
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According to Dater Lacroix has essentially been President in absentia. Now that the team is in the gutter he's back to day-to-day operations.

If I was Kroenke that **** wouldn't fly.

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Old
04-20-2013, 11:51 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hek View Post
According to Dater Lacroix has essentially been President in absentia. Now that the team is in the gutter he's back to day-to-day operations.

If I was Kroenke that **** wouldn't fly.
If you were Kroenke, you wouldn't know the difference.

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Old
04-21-2013, 01:34 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
I didn't mind the trade then, and I still don't mind it.

IMO, EJ is a better overall defenseman.
And, IMO, Stewart was lazy, and I don't think he wanted to be here.
Stewart was awesome here and I would love to have a guy like that right now who can score big goals, be an intimidating presence out there and defend his teammates. Sure he's inconsistent but so are EJ and Varly.

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Old
04-21-2013, 01:44 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
Stewart was awesome here and I would love to have a guy like that right now who can score big goals, be an intimidating presence out there and defend his teammates. Sure he's inconsistent but so are EJ and Varly.
Stewart was not a necessity, he was a luxury. Johnson was and still is a necessity

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Old
04-21-2013, 03:37 AM
  #118
Hennessy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Came here to post this and to make sure you guys listen to the little note at the end of that interview after the interview ends:

http://player.fm/series/hockey-central-at-noon

Listen at 29:50
It's not playing for me. Could someone give me a summary?

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Old
04-21-2013, 05:11 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Came here to post this and to make sure you guys listen to the little note at the end of that interview after the interview ends:

http://player.fm/series/hockey-central-at-noon

Listen at 29:50
I asked Dater about the Vegas thing on twitter since he was the first to mention it but he didn't reply. I think I posted it here earlier this season as well but no one knew.

Dater mentioned a long time ago that Lacroix moved to Vegas and was rarely in Denver. I think it was after he had that serious health scare. That's why he's never seen at the home games (until recently) but he has been at games in Phoenix, Anaheim, LA, etc. (We drove from Vegas to LA this past summer and got there in around 5 hours I think so it should be a really quick flight for Lacroix). So our owner doesn't attend many (any?) home games and our team president lives in Vegas.

They're right about the fact that Sakic can never really have control of the Avs organization because Lacroix will always have his fingerprints all over it. It's sad that we can't even laugh at the Islanders, Blue Jackets, Oilers, etc anymore because the Avs might be the biggest joke in the league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennessy View Post
It's not playing for me. Could someone give me a summary?
Try this link (around 20 mins in):

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/hocke...--April-11.mp3


Last edited by Avs_19: 04-21-2013 at 05:16 AM.
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Old
04-21-2013, 05:54 AM
  #120
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I remember thinking at the time, regarding the EJ trade, that the Avs didn't appear to do that well out of it. Granted, at the time I was really just a hockey fan and wasn't yet an Avs fan.

However. Directly comparing Shattenkirk with Barrie and Elliott is a slightly null point. Shatty was a first round defenseman. Barrie and Elliott were not. Despite having a good level of success post draft, they were always gonna be more of a project than a defenseman taken 14th overall as opposed to 49th and 62nd.

Also, Shattenkirk was put in a better place to thrive after the trade. He went to a team with solid D in Jackman and Coliacovo and an emerging stud in Pietro. You can't say similar pieces were here for EJ. He gives us a bonifide top pairing defenseman. Whether he's a true #1 or more of a #2 is still up for debate. But can really only be debated when he has that other piece next to him.

Stewart was a bit more of a question mark for me. As a non Avs fan at the time, I couldn't understand why he was given up. He potentially looked like a perennial 30ish goal scorer. But a 1st and McClement coming back seemed reasonable, perhaps not great given the 2nd too.

For me this trade still can't be really evaluated until;
1. EJ has a legitimate partner who is at his level.
2. Siemens and Rattie are given a chance to develop.

Stewart will likely always be the hot and cold floating player, more potential than punch. Shatty will be a good PMD. I think people here evaluate this badly because all we really have to show for this trade is EJ thus far. If McClement was still, and playing well as he has been, would people be as upset with this trade?

As for the rest of the trades Sherman has made while I've been here? Varly? Possibly overpaid, again difficult to tell given that we know he certainly has the talent, but doesn't quite have the D in front yet. Downie? Yes, good trade. Quincey might have been a piece who would have helped this season but with downie out its not like you have the counterbalancing effect from this trade. Still like downie a lot, wasn't a huge Quincey fan. Galiardi/Winnik for Sgarbossa/Connolly. Too early to really tell, Sgarbossa is playing well in the AHL. Needs more time. Galiardi has continued his lack of a true position/playing type on a stacked SJS team. Winnik is no loss.

All in all, assuming Sherman made those trades and not PL, I'm reasonably happy with the work of Sherman, certainly since I became a fan. Before that, I can't really comment since I wasn't about. He seems to be making smart trades recently. Sacco can eat ****. I have no system or true intricate knowledge about the game and even I can see they lack direction and functionality.

The organisation are far too secretive for my liking. I want to feel connected to my team. I always want to be able to see whats happening, not to a ridiculous extent, but certainly to feel more attached to the player. That's why I loved the 24/7 series. Getting to see the players interact more naturally rather than the same BS cliched interviews you see. Even something like Oil Change would be interesting to watch to see more of the players as people. This is particularly damning from someone who has absolutely no access outside of their website and the game feeds on NHL gamecenter.


Last edited by ScotAv: 04-21-2013 at 05:58 AM. Reason: EDIT: yikes thats an essay. sorry, in university mode/not studying
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Old
04-21-2013, 08:17 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennessy View Post
It's not playing for me. Could someone give me a summary?
"Does [Joe Sakic] need to take over that organization?"

"I don't think you'll ever take control of that organization. Because Lacroix's always going to have his finger on it...

"From his place in Vegas. His palatial estate in Las Vegas."

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Old
04-21-2013, 09:19 AM
  #122
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You forgot McGinn. I think that trade was huge win for Avs.

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Old
04-21-2013, 09:20 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
Stewart was awesome here and I would love to have a guy like that right now who can score big goals, be an intimidating presence out there and defend his teammates. Sure he's inconsistent but so are EJ and Varly.
Say hello to Gabe Landeskog. He's a better version of Stewart, who will defend his teammates. I'm sure this will be more evident as he gets older. He's already a better player, leader etc anyways.

This trade can be discussed to death, but like most trades, we won't know the winner for 3-5 years anyways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post


Try this link (around 20 mins in):

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/hocke...--April-11.mp3
Thanks!


Last edited by WornWithPride: 04-21-2013 at 09:29 AM.
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Old
04-21-2013, 09:32 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by WornWithPride View Post
Say hello to Gabe Landeskog. He's a better version of Stewart, who will defend his teammates. I'm sure this will be more evident as he gets older. He's already a better player, leader etc anyways.

This trade can be discussed to death, but like most trades, we won't know the winner for 3-5 years anyways.


Thanks!
Stewart has better hands, a better shot, and is on a whole different level of standing up for teammates. I don't think they're really comparable. Don't get me wrong, I love Landeskog and think he is a much better player, but I'd love to have Stewart on the Avs still/again. Shattenkirk I don't really care about because he's replaceable, but Stewart is pretty rare.

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04-21-2013, 11:10 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
Stewart has better hands, a better shot, and is on a whole different level of standing up for teammates. I don't think they're really comparable. Don't get me wrong, I love Landeskog and think he is a much better player, but I'd love to have Stewart on the Avs still/again. Shattenkirk I don't really care about because he's replaceable, but Stewart is pretty rare.
This is so wrong. First I don't know how you can compare a 2nd year rookie to Stewart, second at least Landeskog plays some defense compared to Stewart who waits at the blue line looking for a Stastny pass.

Give it some time and Landeskog will be much better in every aspect of the game, except maybe for putting up 40 goals, but does have the potential for it.

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