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The Carey Price Discussion Thread (part 2)

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Old
04-21-2013, 12:22 AM
  #376
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Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
Price only had 1 great season in his career so I don't know why people say "he's done it in the past" ...yes just once.

He is an average starter. Nothing more, nothing less.

He is overrated at 6.5 M $
I don't agree with you in a sense he is way above average but I wouldn't pay ridiculous money until a goalie does something in the playoffs

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04-21-2013, 12:23 AM
  #377
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Originally Posted by galchenyuktocollberg View Post
I thought trading price + for Gudbranson huberdeau and Markstrom was good And I got torched so what do I know
i saw your thread!

Welcome to the "Price hater" club.

At the beginning of the season, i had an agreement with Toronto fans to trade Price for Reimer, Kadri, Colborne and Rielly. It contributed in earning me the tag of a "Price Hater"

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04-21-2013, 12:23 AM
  #378
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Winner. That's what I meant...I admit Price has consistently been beyond brutal the last couple weeks but people usually always him blame for every loss even when he shows up and the offense doesn't, it's ridiculous.
Are you serious ... look at how many people say "Price is elite". By the way, the Habs have been scoring a lot in the past few weeks so blaming it on the offense is ridiculous.

Price is not even in the top 30 in save percentage. That is BAD ...there is no way to look at it other than BAD! regardless of defense, offense, team, etc ..THAT IS BAD

Also, people should stop saying "price haters love seeing him lose" ... there's no such thing as a price hater. We are all hab fans and we are on this board because we like the team and we enjoy seeing them win. Why is it ok to call out Moen, Desharnais, Gionta, Kaberle, Gorges but not Price ?

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04-21-2013, 12:24 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by galchenyuktocollberg View Post
I don't agree with you in a sense he is way above average but I wouldn't pay ridiculous money until a goalie does something in the playoffs
so you dont have issue with Cam ward at 6 300 000$ ?

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04-21-2013, 12:24 AM
  #380
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
i saw your thread!

Welcome to the "Price hater" club.
I don't "hate him" I am just not delusional like some people here

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04-21-2013, 12:27 AM
  #381
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so you dont have issue with Cam ward at 6 300 000$ ?
That's kind of an acception price has been bad but wards contract is just gross he did win a cup but.....yikes. And that semin contract lol

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04-21-2013, 12:29 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by galchenyuktocollberg View Post
That's kind of an acception price has been bad but wards contract is just gross he did win a cup but.....yikes. And that semin contract lol
what about Quick next contract? (5,800,000 per years, forever)

If Price have issue, Quick is .901 this years.

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04-21-2013, 12:31 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
what about Quick next contract? (5,800,000 per years, forever)

If Price have issue, Quick is .901 this years.
If we won the cup last year I wouldn't give a ****

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04-21-2013, 12:32 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
Price only had 1 great season in his career so I don't know why people say "he's done it in the past" ...yes just once.

He is an average starter. Nothing more, nothing less.

He is overrated at 6.5 M $
Right now, its hard to argue with that but I think basically everyone in the league sees the potential in Price. Even from the recent poll, Price was being one of the front runner for the Vezina (crazy I know). Even in an interview on RDS, Theo Fleury and I think it was Lindros not sure, said Price should win the Vezina. We all know he won't even get nominated but lots of players and ex-players see Price as a really really good goalie.

He's still pretty far from reaching his peak though. Like I said, his mental toughness is pretty weak, especially at this moment. His technique is undeniable but when he has no confidence, he cheats on his position and "plays" the percentage. I'm no expert when most of the time, I don't see "fire" in his eye. Hitting the post with his stick is not enough for me, I want him to challenge the shot, I want him to be energetic, aggressive, that lets no one in his crease and no shy to push them away.

The way he is playing right now reminds me of the year he lost his job to Halak. When he got run over by Janssen. He was shaky and played with no confidence at all.

His biggest problem right now is inside his head.

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04-21-2013, 12:32 AM
  #385
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
what about Quick next contract? (5,800,000 per years, forever)

If Price have issue, Quick is .901 this years.
I very rarely agree with you...but I'm glad you're bringing up the fact that Price isn't the only overpaid goalie doing horrible (and worse too).

Good goalies can get paid have bad years, just like bad goalies can have good years and get pair. People seem to be split on which description fits Price...I think he'll have a stellar playoff and he'll prove the doubters wrong next year, we're seeing Price struggle like we've never seen before, it has to be temporary.

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04-21-2013, 12:34 AM
  #386
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Are you serious ... look at how many people say "Price is elite". By the way, the Habs have been scoring a lot in the past few weeks so blaming it on the offense is ridiculous.
He is elite. Pretty much every analyst in the league would agree. The players themselves had him at number 4 in a poll last week and up until this disastrous week he'd been in the top five save percentage since his career began... He's elite.
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Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
Price is not even in the top 30 in save percentage. That is BAD ...there is no way to look at it other than BAD! regardless of defense, offense, team, etc ..THAT IS BAD
Of course there's other ways to look at it. He's been solid almost all year long. He's had some bad games that have inflated that number and now he's going through the worst stretch of his career. That doesn't make him a bad goalie, it makes him like every other goalie in the league... a guy who has ups and downs.
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Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
Also, people should stop saying "price haters love seeing him lose" ... there's no such thing as a price hater. We are all hab fans and we are on this board because we like the team and we enjoy seeing them win. Why is it ok to call out Moen, Desharnais, Gionta, Kaberle, Gorges but not Price ?
Why should we stop saying this when it's clearly true? We've seen guys with names like CareyCosts come out even when he was playing well. We've seen guys devote pretty much all their posts to throwing pot shots at the guy no matter how he's playing.

I'm not sure what else we're supposed to call these guys when they clearly hate our goalie.

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04-21-2013, 12:35 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by galchenyuktocollberg View Post
If we won the cup last year I wouldn't give a ****
I am waiting at the end of the season to calculate the Correlation coefficient between a goalie performance and his saves%.

in the past few year the correlation was weak, but positive.

I am not sure there are any correlations this year, if there are one, maybe its a negative one (mean this season, lesser paid goalies was expected to have better saves %).

it will be interesting......

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04-21-2013, 12:38 AM
  #388
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
He is elite. Pretty much every analyst in the league would agree. The players themselves had him at number 4 in a poll last week and up until this disastrous week he'd been in the top five save percentage since his career began... He's elite.

Of course there's other ways to look at it. He's been solid almost all year long. He's had some bad games that have inflated that number and now he's going through the worst stretch of his career. That doesn't make him a bad goalie, it makes him like every other goalie in the league... a guy who has ups and downs.

Why should we stop saying this when it's clearly true? We've seen guys with names like CareyCosts come out even when he was playing well. We've seen guys devote pretty much all their posts to throwing pot shots at the guy no matter how he's playing.

I'm not sure what else we're supposed to call these guys when they clearly hate our goalie.
To add to your first paragraph.

ES save %: 0.920
PP save %: 0.812
SH save %: 0.972

He's a great goalie...our penalty kill is just pitiful, that's all there is to it. People just look at his overall save % when they should dig deeper.

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04-21-2013, 12:39 AM
  #389
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When I settle down after this lackluster 2weeks I will probably ultimately leave as a price fan. Frustration speaks louder then fact. Jimmy Howard has a bad contract to btw

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04-21-2013, 12:40 AM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
He is elite. Pretty much every analyst in the league would agree. The players themselves had him at number 4 in a poll last week and up until this disastrous week he'd been in the top five save percentage since his career began... He's elite.

Of course there's other ways to look at it. He's been solid almost all year long. He's had some bad games that have inflated that number and now he's going through the worst stretch of his career. That doesn't make him a bad goalie, it makes him like every other goalie in the league... a guy who has ups and downs.

Why should we stop saying this when it's clearly true? We've seen guys with names like CareyCosts come out even when he was playing well. We've seen guys devote pretty much all their posts to throwing pot shots at the guy no matter how he's playing.

I'm not sure what else we're supposed to call these guys when they clearly hate our goalie.
Carey Price is not in the top 5 in save %:

2012-2013 Price 33rd in Save %, 7th in Wins, 29th in GAA
2011-2012 Price 20th in Save %, 21st in Wins, 18th in GAA
2010-2011 Price 7th in Save %, 1st in Wins, 10th in GAA
2009-2010 Price 21st in Save %, 37th in Wins, 31st in GAA
2008-2009 Price 31st in Save %, 24th in Wins, 31st in GAA

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04-21-2013, 12:40 AM
  #391
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
I very rarely agree with you...but I'm glad you're bringing up the fact that Price isn't the only overpaid goalie doing horrible (and worse too).

Good goalies can get paid have bad years, just like bad goalies can have good years and get pair. People seem to be split on which description fits Price...I think he'll have a stellar playoff and he'll prove the doubters wrong next year, we're seeing Price struggle like we've never seen before, it has to be temporary.
I never had issue with Price, my main issue was always his contract. (and the anticipation of it). That why i often proposed we trade him. (well, i have issue with most high paid goalies.)

I just dont get my "Price hater" tag just because i was trying to trade Price for the like of "Reimer, Kadri, Colborne and Rielly"? or "Rask, Subban and Thomas."

Also proposed something around Huberdeau, but it wasn't accepted by Florida fans.

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04-21-2013, 12:44 AM
  #392
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Carey Price is not in the top 5 in save %:

2012-2013 Price 33rd in Save %, 7th in Wins, 29th in GAA
2011-2012 Price 20th in Save %, 21st in Wins, 18th in GAA
2010-2011 Price 7th in Save %, 1st in Wins, 10th in GAA
2009-2010 Price 21st in Save %, 37th in Wins, 31st in GAA
2008-2009 Price 31st in Save %, 24th in Wins, 31st in GAA
It was posted over and over again earlier... yes he is. At least he was before this stretch. Don't know how much it would change the numbers but since his career started his save percentage was tied for 5th with Miller among active goalies and a minimum of 275 games played.

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04-21-2013, 12:46 AM
  #393
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To add to your first paragraph.

ES save %: 0.920
PP save %: 0.812
SH save %: 0.972

He's a great goalie...our penalty kill is just pitiful, that's all there is to it. People just look at his overall save % when they should dig deeper.
Our PK sucks too. But Price has to play better than he has over the past half dozen games. He was very weak against Toronto and while he's been better, he hasn't been himself. The D has collapsed for sure, but Price has to step it up. We need him to be our best player and he's not doing it right now.

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04-21-2013, 12:50 AM
  #394
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Our PK sucks too. But Price has to play better than he has over the past half dozen games. He was very weak against Toronto and while he's been better, he hasn't been himself. The D has collapsed for sure, but Price has to step it up. We need him to be our best player and he's not doing it right now.
I completely agree with you, he's playing beyond brutal and it's sad to watch and he needs to step it up especially right now with the playoffs coming very soon. But for people to suggest we trade him? I just don't understand, most starters are paid 5-7m just like Price is.

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04-21-2013, 12:51 AM
  #395
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It was posted over and over again earlier... yes he is. At least he was before this stretch. Don't know how much it would change the numbers but since his career started his save percentage was tied for 5th with Miller among active goalies and a minimum of 275 games played.
Do you mean career % ? or the saves% in the past 5 years?

Most young goalies will be among the all time career saves% leader since the saves% of the average goalie improved a lot in the past decade.

and take a look there.....

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/recor...e-leaders.html

Price is 11-13th among the current goalie for his career saves %.

also take note that in the top 25 all time saves% leader, 21 are still active player. (Counting Thomas as active).

And by the way setting the bar at a minimum of 275gp was a good way to take out Rinne, Niemi, Howard, Hiller, Halak and Quick among the active goalie having a greater career saves% than Price.

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04-21-2013, 12:58 AM
  #396
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Do you mean career % ? or the saves% in the past 5 years?

Most young goalies will be among the all time career saves% leader since the saves% of the average goalie improved a lot in the past decade.

and take a look there.....

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/recor...e-leaders.html

Price is 11-13th among the current goalie for his career saves %.

also take note that in the top 25 all time saves% leader, 21 are still active player. (Counting Thomas as active).

And by the way setting the bar at a minimum of 275gp was a good way to take out Rinne, Niemi, Howard, Hiller, Halak and Quick among the active goalie having a greater career saves% than Price.
Here's the numbers as it was last week, he was tied for 6th. Quick qualified btw, Price was better. Rinne also qualified...

Hillier and Halak have barely been starters.


Goalies since 07-08 with 275 games played minimum:

Vokoun .921
Rinne .920
Lundqvist .920
Luongo .919
Backstrom .918
Price .916 (tied)
Miller .916 (tied)

And you're comparing Price in his early years including his rookie season against goalies in their prime.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 04-21-2013 at 01:07 AM.
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04-21-2013, 01:02 AM
  #397
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
I very rarely agree with you...but I'm glad you're bringing up the fact that Price isn't the only overpaid goalie doing horrible (and worse too).

Good goalies can get paid have bad years, just like bad goalies can have good years and get pair. People seem to be split on which description fits Price...I think he'll have a stellar playoff and he'll prove the doubters wrong next year, we're seeing Price struggle like we've never seen before, it has to be temporary.
Quick has a really good excuse though.

He got a really bad back injury (or something) which prevented him from training properly. Add to this the lockout, the fact his team won the cup last year, the fact he just signed a huge deal. If you're judging Quick on this you are making a mistake. Quick has shown he can do it. He was the only reason the kings even made the playoffs and he followed it up with a stellar performance in the playoffs.

Once Price does something close to that then we can cut him some slack. But right now he's paid more than Quick and he does not deliver at all, and has not delivered in the past either.

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04-21-2013, 01:05 AM
  #398
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To add to your first paragraph.

ES save %: 0.920
PP save %: 0.812
SH save %: 0.972

He's a great goalie...our penalty kill is just pitiful, that's all there is to it. People just look at his overall save % when they should dig deeper.
ES save % of 0.920 is in the bottom tier of starting goalies. It's bad.

And you can't excuse his PK save % by just dumping it all on the team in front of him. He shares part of the blame for this too. The goalie is a big part of a good PK. He has had difficulties tracking the puck all year long.

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04-21-2013, 01:05 AM
  #399
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Quick has a really good excuse though.

He got a really bad back injury (or something) which prevented him from training properly. Add to this the lockout, the fact his team won the cup last year, the fact he just signed a huge deal. If you're judging Quick on this you are making a mistake. Quick has shown he can do it. He was the only reason the kings even made the playoffs and he followed it up with a stellar performance in the playoffs.

Once Price does something close to that then we can cut him some slack. But right now he's paid more than Quick and he does not deliver at all, and has not delivered in the past either.
What? I never said Quick was bad lol. In most polls I rate Price and Quick pretty much evenly or else I put one after the other.
I think he's similar to Price in regards to fitting the 'a good goalie having a bad year' description. They've both been subpar this year tbh

Edit: I went back to read my conversation with the guy I was replying to, I can see how you thought I was saying Quick is a bad goalie on an overpaid contract but that's not what I meant.

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04-21-2013, 01:06 AM
  #400
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Quick has a really good excuse though.

He got a really bad back injury (or something) which prevented him from training properly. Add to this the lockout, the fact his team won the cup last year, the fact he just signed a huge deal. If you're judging Quick on this you are making a mistake. Quick has shown he can do it. He was the only reason the kings even made the playoffs and he followed it up with a stellar performance in the playoffs.

Once Price does something close to that then we can cut him some slack. But right now he's paid more than Quick and he does not deliver at all, and has not delivered in the past either.
Quick has had one great season though. That's it. He's older and he's played less games. No doubt he played out of his mind last season but overall Price plays more and has had better numbers.

At least until this week anyway..

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