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Gorges says 'We're soft'... Who is the soffest Hab?

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Old
04-21-2013, 12:20 AM
  #101
takip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
I agree that the idea of single out ONE player is stupid... thats why I called out almost the whole team.

The D-squad definitely needs a change this summer.
That is something we can agree on, my friend

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04-21-2013, 12:25 AM
  #102
IHaveNoCreativity
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Habs needed more grit, Drewskie is good but not the answer.

Bottom 6 is too soft.

Bottom pairing as well, I love Bouillon, but he can't be playing that style anymore.

Emelin's injury was horrible timing, Diaz and Weber are OFD's... Soft too...

Drewskie, Bouillon and Weber/Diaz should round out the bottom 3...

I guess Subban-Gorges, Markov-Emelin ? I don't watch too many Habs games correct me where I'm wrong.

Armstrong and Prust aren't enough.

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04-21-2013, 12:25 AM
  #103
FlyingKostitsyn
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Only on HFboards does being a fan mean turning on the team you cheer for at the slighest difficulties.

Thumbs up Takip for believing in our team even after repeated loss. If he's not being a true fan than I don't know who is. It pisses me off to see all these people here either hide in the woodwork when things go right only to come back spewing their hate at the slightest downturn or worse, do a complete 180degree turn on their opinions whenever things go wrong.

There certainly are problems right now but we have the tools to fix them, they just have to get things together and regain confidence and momentum.

Go Habs!

Go Armstrong, Blunden, Bourque, Desharnais, Dumont, Eller, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Gionta, Halpern, Moen, Pacioretty, Plekanec, Prust, Ryder, White, Bouillon, Diaz, Drewiske, Emelin, Gorges, Markov, Subban, Weber! Oh and Kaberle too!

Obviously this post will be greeted with much loath and get defecated upon - the people with sense here rarely stay long after a loss. Those who do stay usually have a worse opinion of our team than even Bruins fans have.

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04-21-2013, 12:26 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingkostitsyn View Post
only on hfboards does being a fan mean turning on the team you cheer for at the slighest difficulties.

thumbs up takip for believing in our team even after repeated loss. If he's not being a true fan than i don't know who is. It pisses me off to see all these people here either hide in the woodwork when things go right only to come back spewing their hate at the slightest downturn or worse, do a complete 180degree turn on their opinions whenever things go wrong.

There certainly are problems right now but we have the tools to fix them, they just have to get things together and regain confidence and momentum.

Go habs!

go armstrong, blunden, bourque, desharnais, dumont, eller, galchenyuk, gallagher, gionta, halpern, moen, pacioretty, plekanec, prust, ryder, white, bouillon, diaz, drewiske, emelin, gorges, markov, subban, weber! Oh and kaberle too!

obviously this post will be greeted with much loath and get defecated upon - the people with sense here rarely stay long after a loss. those who do stay usually have a worse opinion of our team than even bruins fans have.
QFTi

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04-21-2013, 12:27 AM
  #105
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Classic case of overreacting just relax. If they're still soft in the playoffs then call them soft and calling for those softies to be traded.

Ever since we clinched a playoff spot guys' compete level haven't been there its like they're playing scared because they wanna be healthy for the playoffs. So lets wait and see in the playoffs. The compete level that should be there like it was at the start of ten year isn't there.

Anyway after all these losses this place starts to lose its logical thinking until we start winning again soo gonna have to stop reading these boards until playoff time it seems.

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04-21-2013, 12:28 AM
  #106
takip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Only on HFboards does being a fan mean turning on the team you cheer for at the slighest difficulties.

Thumbs up Takip for believing in our team even after repeated loss. If he's not being a true fan than I don't know who is. It pisses me off to see all these people here either hide in the woodwork when things go right only to come back spewing their hate at the slightest downturn or worse, do a complete 180degree turn on their opinions whenever things go wrong.

There certainly are problems right now but we have the tools to fix them, they just have to get things together and regain confidence and momentum.

Go Habs!

Go Armstrong, Blunden, Bourque, Desharnais, Dumont, Eller, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Gionta, Halpern, Moen, Pacioretty, Plekanec, Prust, Ryder, White, Bouillon, Diaz, Drewiske, Emelin, Gorges, Markov, Subban, Weber! Oh and Kaberle too!

Obviously this post will be greeted with much loath and get defecated upon - the people with sense here rarely stay long after a loss. Those who do stay usually have a worse opinion of our team than even Bruins fans have.
Thanks, it's nice to see some positivity here!

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04-21-2013, 12:32 AM
  #107
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I still maintain that the Habs are overachieving... IMO they're a 6th place team, they have the world's best goalie.

I can't stand those Habs fans...

Every team slumps, and every player has rough patches... Better now then playoffs.

But I do agree that the Habs are soft, but there's softer teams. Come playoffs, anything can happen so I won't say that they're too soft to win. They do need more toughness.

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04-21-2013, 12:34 AM
  #108
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One thing I could see is the Habs going hard for a guy like Pascal Dupuis. He seems like he could answer some needs for your team. He can be a pretty gritty player.

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04-21-2013, 12:43 AM
  #109
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This defensive corps is soft for sure. That has been a given since last season. Nothing has changed since. People have to see that the defensive corps physically was the same last year. Markov has never been physical. Not his job. It will be the GM's job to address that need. But I think that Bergevin is not a 'stop-gap' type of GM. I think he wants his guys in Hamilton to get their chances. Tinordi will be here full time next season.

Like I wrote in the game thread, I think this team has just left its foot off the pedal because of the playoffs. They want to stay healthy before the big show. It's just my opinion, but it is strange that the cheating (2nd to the puck in the D-zone, etc.) has started just after the game against Buffalo.

Problem is: teams can rarely 'put the switch back on' at any time. Doesn't work that way. I sense the vets and the kids are not on the same page, effort-wise. And some kids showed frustration tonight in the 3rd.

I still believe Michel Therrien has done a good job this season, with a pretty ordinary lineup. But his non-use of Galchenyuk is borderline ridiculous right now.

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04-21-2013, 12:43 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takip View Post
Shouldn't you evaluate the season as a whole? I mean the Caps have always been in a weak division. Maybe you should have payed attention to which teams they played for a majority of the season.
Oh, I can do that, but it would play little relevance to the matter at hand similar to how knowing Roman history will do little to enhance the understanding of what happened in the 1700s.

My sample size is large enough, and since this is analysis of data over time, I have data in hand about aspects about their play such as being able to clear the zone, the scoring chances given up, how Tyler Sloan gave a goal to Crosby because he made a pass off of "dead" boards. Since this data is closer to the playoffs, this means it is more likely that what I see in games closer to the playoffs would show in some way in the actual playoff games.

Yes, Brendan Morrison had a beastly first two months, but that Brendan Morrison never showed up again. Oh, but he had a nice March, but that was against the SE teams only.

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04-21-2013, 12:48 AM
  #111
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well desharnais is small but at least he will occasionally finish a check hard, plekanec is by far the biggest puss** on the team.

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04-21-2013, 12:58 AM
  #112
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Are people seriously putting Patches in the "soft" category?

He is actually the last guy I would mess up with, just ask McDonagh.

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04-21-2013, 01:08 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Nicko999 View Post
Are people seriously putting Patches in the "soft" category?

He is actually the last guy I would mess up with, just ask McDonagh.
I think Patches just needs rest since he's probably got a bunch of little injuries affecting him. Of course, he isn't blameless nor is the coaching staff for sending him out there night-after-night, although you do have to commend his willingness to go out and play.

Yes, he isn't quite willing to drive the net or battle in the corners as he had in the past, but I believe his "softness" is not completely due to him "wanting" to be soft.

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04-21-2013, 02:03 AM
  #114
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My history of posting will show that I am an optimist and one of those eternal defenders of Habs players, BUT at this point, I find it funny that some people are still going "Chill out, these losses mean nothing, you're overreacting, this board is so dramatic, etc."

Like it's funny to read posts that don't consider the past 5 games (count us very lucky against Tbay for those PPs and posts) possibly the worst games in at least the past decade.

Not saying that this team is horrible and deserves to be swept. In fact I really like our team. But it's not who you have on paper, it's HOW you play and it's hilarious that people think that things are "OK".

At what point do you stop and wonder whether this team can not get blown out game in and game out?

I have faith for the playoffs, but let me be clear, this is going to require one ****ing hell of a turnaround and MT better have some magic up his ass that he's been waiting to unleash in these practices he never got to have. I love Price to death, but the cowboy better pull up those bootstraps cuz other teams are playing NHL hockey and we are making the teams that will actually be drafting in the top3 look like SC champs.

It's the little things, but they have to happen. Hope they do. As I said before, softness is not the problem here, not physically at least. Mentally, this whole team has gone soft.

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04-21-2013, 02:08 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by RealisticLeaf55 View Post
One thing I could see is the Habs going hard for a guy like Pascal Dupuis. He seems like he could answer some needs for your team. He can be a pretty gritty player.
I really like Dupuis. I wonder if the Pens want to swap our resident Franco star (whose name is actually Gabriel Dumont, but MT is too blind to see his potential at least above Moen). DD is having a bad season. I've always been a fan, but this season he's really let me down. I hope he gets his creativity/chemistry with ANYONE back cuz when he's good, he's very good. When he's bad. Aye oi!

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04-21-2013, 02:17 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Nicko999 View Post
Are people seriously putting Patches in the "soft" category?

He is actually the last guy I would mess up with, just ask McDonagh.
Uh yes. A big and strong guy like him should be a lot more physical. He often lose one and one battle. I've seen Gallagher win board battle way more than Pacioretty.

MaxPac has 52 hits in 40 games.

For a guy that has the total package to be a powerforward, he should hit a lot more than that, especially with a small team like ours. Even Eller has more hits than him. That's not Eller's game but at least he can recognize that in this small team, if a big guy like him doesn't hit, nobody is gonna do it.

It's kinda sad that our 2 wingers that crashes the net the most are Gallagher and Gionta.


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04-21-2013, 02:27 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
My history of posting will show that I am an optimist and one of those eternal defenders of Habs players, BUT at this point, I find it funny that some people are still going "Chill out, these losses mean nothing, you're overreacting, this board is so dramatic, etc."

Like it's funny to read posts that don't consider the past 5 games (count us very lucky against Tbay for those PPs and posts) possibly the worst games in at least the past decade.

Not saying that this team is horrible and deserves to be swept. In fact I really like our team. But it's not who you have on paper, it's HOW you play and it's hilarious that people think that things are "OK".

At what point do you stop and wonder whether this team can not get blown out game in and game out?

I have faith for the playoffs, but let me be clear, this is going to require one ****ing hell of a turnaround and MT better have some magic up his ass that he's been waiting to unleash in these practices he never got to have. I love Price to death, but the cowboy better pull up those bootstraps cuz other teams are playing NHL hockey and we are making the teams that will actually be drafting in the top3 look like SC champs.

It's the little things, but they have to happen. Hope they do. As I said before, softness is not the problem here, not physically at least. Mentally, this whole team has gone soft.
this.

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04-21-2013, 02:47 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
Uh yes. A big and strong guy like him should be a lot more physical. He often lose one and one battle. I've seen Gallagher win board battle way more than Pacioretty.

MaxPac has 52 hits in 40 games.

For a guy that has the total package to be a powerforward, he should hit a lot more than that, especially with a small team like ours. Even Eller has more hits than him. That's not Eller's game but at least he can recognize that in this small team, if a big guy like him doesn't hit, nobody is gonna do it.

It's kinda sad that our 2 wingers that crashes the net the most are Gallagher and Gionta.
Just like we tried to make Latendresse be Lucic? Let these guys play within their limits. Pacioretty isn't some super powerforward. In fact, he's not even somewhat of a powerforward, he's a big body who can make plays. I see no reason to turn him into something he's not. It's like asking Price to be a stand up goalie now. Why bother? It could be disasterous.

If habs want more grit and more toughness, go out and get it. You can expect players to finish their checks but you can't expect to transform people.

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04-21-2013, 03:19 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Just like we tried to make Latendresse be Lucic? Let these guys play within their limits. Pacioretty isn't some super powerforward. In fact, he's not even somewhat of a powerforward, he's a big body who can make plays. I see no reason to turn him into something he's not. It's like asking Price to be a stand up goalie now. Why bother? It could be disasterous.

If habs want more grit and more toughness, go out and get it. You can expect players to finish their checks but you can't expect to transform people.
And what are Pacioretty limits?

What's the harm for a player like him to finish his check? What's the harm for a player like him to crash the net? I'm not asking a player like Plekanec or DD to do that because its not their game but for a guy like Pacioretty, it would just make him a better player.

I don't want Pacioretty to be another Ryder. I want Pacioretty to work for his goal, not just standing there and wait for the perfect pass. I want Pacioretty to charge the net and score garbage goal. I want Pacioretty to crash the net to make room and create space for his smaller linemates. I want Pacioretty to finish all his check.

We already have a small team and if our big players like Pacioretty, Bourque and Moen refuses to crash the net and complete their check, it will be quite easy, again, to play against us.

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04-21-2013, 03:27 AM
  #120
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I would much rather Pacioretty score than hit. Doesnt mean he can't hit, and tbh I've seen him hit when he's not trying to score (to no avail). It's his play WITH the puck physically that is like Therrien (i.e. disappointing).

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04-21-2013, 03:33 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
And what are Pacioretty limits?

What's the harm for a player like him to finish his check? What's the harm for a player like him to crash the net? I'm not asking a player like Plekanec or DD to do that because its not their game but for a guy like Pacioretty, it would just make him a better player.

I don't want Pacioretty to be another Ryder. I want Pacioretty to work for his goal, not just standing there and wait for the perfect pass. I want Pacioretty to charge the net and score garbage goal. I want Pacioretty to crash the net to make room and create space for his smaller linemates. I want Pacioretty to finish all his check.

We already have a small team and if our big players like Pacioretty, Bourque and Moen refuses to crash the net and complete their check, it will be quite easy, again, to play against us.
It would make anybody a better player but it's not his game.

You want it to be his game but it isn't. If it were, he'd already be doing it.

Max hits sometimes and sometimes doesn't. He's not a consistent checker.

You have a better chance asking bourque to crash than max.

Sorry to say but you want max to be a PPG player with a mean streak. It won't happen. Guy is what he is and I'm fine with that.

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04-21-2013, 03:50 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
It would make anybody a better player but it's not his game.

You want it to be his game but it isn't. If it were, he'd already be doing it.

Max hits sometimes and sometimes doesn't. He's not a consistent checker.

You have a better chance asking bourque to crash than max.

Sorry to say but you want max to be a PPG player with a mean streak. It won't happen. Guy is what he is and I'm fine with that.
if you have to go with the "it's not his game" mentality, then the makeup of the team have to be redone. on the Patches/Plex/Gio line it's nobody's game to hit, on the DD/Ryder/Bourque line it's not Ryder and DD game to hit, on the EGG line it's not Galchenyuk or Gallagher game to hit...

and IT IS a problem when on their line the grittiest players are Plex and Gio, same for the DD line (although I understand Bourque being tentative -> concussion)

I mean, we have ONE line that constantly crash the net and al' and there's two rookies centered by a 23 years old on said line...

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04-21-2013, 03:53 AM
  #123
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Top 5 softest Habs:
1a. Desharnais
1b. Bouillon
2. Markov
3. Gionta
4. Weber (hopefully will be replaced soon)
5. Pleks (THERRIEN see notes below)

Notes:
1a. After he signed his contract, this dude literally disappeared and in terms of production he is putting up the same numbers as our third line. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get pushed off the puck in a women's league for godsakes. I know he can make amazing plays time to time; but his play as of late does not warrant him a spot on the top lines with top minutes.

1b. Bouillon kills momentum like no other on the team and doesn't check anyone (he lightly pushes them into the boards or spin dodges and allows them to not lose any speed); he also doesn't win most of his board battles nor makes any good defensive passes.

2. People are saying Markov has been the catalyst to Subban's success this season are delusional; if anything Subban is making him look better than he is. He's way too slow and doesn't give the extra effort to complete a play (keep puck in off. zone or backcheck)

3. He will sometimes be able to put the puck in the net in-close as we saw in the last few games, but other than those odd goals he brings no grit or intensity to the team. He also finds himself running around like a headless chicken wasting his energy in the neutral and offensive zone.

4. Weber.. I just don't want to say anything cuz it'd probably consist of only swearing and cursing.

5. Still our go to man, but it's hard for him to do anything really when Therrien is so set on not dropping Gionta/Desharnais out of the top two lines.

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04-21-2013, 05:00 AM
  #124
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Emelin really was the lynchpin of the D. So frustrating to have this many NHL Dmen but barely any physical ones. As much as our prospect depth is on the blueline, we need a MAJOR restructuring of HOW our defence works. As I said in another thread, at this point we need to rethink our current Defence, disregarding vet status or experience. Focus on roles, and what roles we're missing.

Subban, Pateryn, Tinordi, Boullion all have grit.

Gorges is playing the worst hockey he's played in a long time, maybe ever. Demote him and let him find his game.

Subban and Markov are obviously mainstays, making one of Diaz and Weber redundant (obviously Diaz is better)

Tinordi-Subban (Let Tinordi stay back and keep it simple while Subban attacks)
Markov-Diaz (Softest minutes)
Gorges-Pateryn/Boullion (Shut down stay at home pair. Boullion would be my #7, I'm high on Pateryn as a #6 right now.)

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04-21-2013, 05:14 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
I'm complaining for the same reason you just called me an idiot... because I'm pissed off.
if a hockey game makes you this pissed off you need a readjustment in your personal life.

and how did you survive last year? zomg

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