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Ethnic Russian players playing for the others

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Old
04-20-2013, 10:19 PM
  #26
Dynamo81
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
OR as we know them now, the kids who were born when the soviet players left the Russian leagues to go play abroad, and now we have the Galchenyuks and Barkovs and so on.
Yes but the majority of them were not developed in Russia, they are not a product of Russian hockey.

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04-20-2013, 11:05 PM
  #27
boris4c
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Actually, Belarusian is a nationality, but not an ethnicity. Belarusians and Russians are essentially the same ethnicity, along with Ukrainians. Any genetic differences among the Eastern Slavic branch of humanity are too small to classify.
Putting aside genetics, those are clearly different ethnic groups, especially the Ukrainians. If we would be going by genetics then you would that all kinds of ethnic groups are "too small to classify". Ethnic groups are not about genetics, and is often based on language, religion, culture and so on.

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04-20-2013, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story...cessful_lawyer

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04-21-2013, 03:11 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by boris4c View Post
Putting aside genetics, those are clearly different ethnic groups, especially the Ukrainians. If we would be going by genetics then you would that all kinds of ethnic groups are "too small to classify". Ethnic groups are not about genetics, and is often based on language, religion, culture and so on.
The division of ethnic groups is inside Ukraine itself. Eastern Ukrainians and most of Crimeans are ethnic Russians. Western Ukrainians are Galicians who are Catholic and not ethnic Russians.

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04-21-2013, 04:01 AM
  #30
boris4c
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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
The division of ethnic groups is inside Ukraine itself. Eastern Ukrainians and most of Crimeans are ethnic Russians. Western Ukrainians are Galicians who are Catholic and not ethnic Russians.
Not really, but whatever you say , as this is not the main point of the thread.

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04-21-2013, 04:55 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by boris4c View Post
Not really, but whatever you say , as this is not the main point of the thread.
Yes, really. The most of the Eastern Ukrainian and Crimean population is indeed ethnic Russian.

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04-21-2013, 06:19 AM
  #32
Franck
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Originally Posted by boris4c View Post
Putting aside genetics, those are clearly different ethnic groups, especially the Ukrainians. If we would be going by genetics then you would that all kinds of ethnic groups are "too small to classify". Ethnic groups are not about genetics, and is often based on language, religion, culture and so on.
I was just about to make a similar post before I saw yours.

Genetics isn't completely irrelevant, but it is only a minor factor in defining an ethnic group. Two people sharing chromosomes is pretty irrelevant if they speak different languages, observe a different religion and hold different cultural values.

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04-21-2013, 06:21 AM
  #33
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In team Belarus there are a lot of naturalized Russians. Just sayin

We (I mean Latvia) also have some ethnic Russian prospects like last year's 2nd round draft pick Teodors Bļugers, or Edgars Kulda who plays in WHL, Nikolajs Jeļisējevs who plays for HK Rīga or this guy:
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=50403

but these are all born in Latvia, have at least started to learn hockey in Latvia and in some cases one might even not immediately recognize that they are of Russian ethnicity due to intermarriage and stuff.

Of course after the collapse of the Soviet Union we had a lot of ethnic Russians (not born in Latvia) playing for our team but thankfully we didn't start to ''import'' players later as I personally am against raising the level of NT with Canadian, Russian, American or other imports. I'm even doubtful about Ainārs Podziņš, as he is of Latvian ethnicity but has had very limited if actually 0 ties to the country and its hockey system. But as he is a Latvian if he wants he should have ability to fight for the spot on the NT imho.

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04-21-2013, 02:31 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by slovakiasnextone View Post
Also Galchenyuk? Does one turn into being ethnically Russian by obtaining Russian citizenship? Because I was always under the impression that Galchenyuk was ethnically Belarussian? Unless his mother is Russian as I'm 100% positive abut his father being Belarussian.
Tricky topic. While being "ethnically Belarusian" he has an Ukrainian last name and speaks Russian natively but doesn't speak Belarusian or Ukrainian. As I understand he lived little more in Russia than anywhere else (played for Dynamo Moscow from the age of 9 to 15). So culturally I guess he is more Russian, or maybe Russian-American (then again you could say that about many Russian NHLers minus US passport). Ethnically? I have no idea. But he is surely closer to an ethnic Russian than "I am not Russian" Yakupov, heh. In any case all that huge territory is sort of a melting pot, especially for Slavs. Probably every 4th Russian citizen has an Ukrainian or Belarusian last name, and quite a bit of Ukrainian and Belarusian citizens have Russian names.


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04-22-2013, 02:33 AM
  #35
kaiser matias
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Somewhat related to the topic, but the Kazakh team that just got promoted to the 2014 World Championships was nearly all ethnically Russian. Only one ethnic Kazakh player on the team. The IIHF wrote an article about the future of Kazakh hockey, saying that while some younger players are ethnic Kazakhs, its still a mainly Russian sport, even with Russians being a minority in the country.


Widening the border

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Old
04-22-2013, 10:50 AM
  #36
Yakushev72
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Originally Posted by wings5 View Post
I wouldn't quite say that, Serbians and many Montenegrins have genetic differences from many Slavs.
Not that it is has anything to do with hockey, but anthropologists classify Slavs into 3 different groups: South (Serbians, Montenegrins, etc.), West (Poles, Czechs, Slovaks) and East (Russians, Belarusians, Ukrainians). The Wikipedia page suggests that the South Slavs are more distinct genetically than the other 2 groups. The East and West groups are substantially different in terms of language, alphabet, religion, etc.

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04-22-2013, 10:59 AM
  #37
Yakushev72
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Originally Posted by boris4c View Post
Putting aside genetics, those are clearly different ethnic groups, especially the Ukrainians. If we would be going by genetics then you would that all kinds of ethnic groups are "too small to classify". Ethnic groups are not about genetics, and is often based on language, religion, culture and so on.
I would argue that nationality and ethnicity are two different concepts, especially in countries populated by a lot of immigrants. You don't hear people described as "ethnic" Canadians, unless you are talking about Inuits in the Arctic Region. Wayne Gretzky may be an ethnic Belarusian, but he is rarely referred to in those terms. He is described as a Canadian, based on his national affiliation, which encompasses, language, culture, etc.

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04-22-2013, 11:08 AM
  #38
Yakushev72
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Originally Posted by Franck View Post
I was just about to make a similar post before I saw yours.

Genetics isn't completely irrelevant, but it is only a minor factor in defining an ethnic group. Two people sharing chromosomes is pretty irrelevant if they speak different languages, observe a different religion and hold different cultural values.
In Canada, the US, etc., you have people whose chromosomal roots are in Uganda, Scotland, and everywhere else. Customarily, Americans whose ancestral roots are in Uganda are referred to as "Americans," because ethnicity (Ugandan) is trumped by language and culture. Ethnically, they are called "African-American," which distinguishes them from "Caucasians."

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04-22-2013, 11:34 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
the amount is staggering without trying too hard: Barkov, Yashkin, Malgin, Starkov, Trukhno, Levandovskiy, Bykov, Krutov, Galchenyuk, Patzold (sp) and counting....The 90's really cost us the talent pool as well.
Let's stay with the facts.

Galchenyuk is an ethnic Belorussian and Pätzold is an ethnic German.

Nonetheless obviously the 90's had this effect. A lot of players and coaches and just non-hockey ppl moved out of Russia taking their kids with them or the kids were born outside Russia. Every case is different. I know my kid would play for Russia in a similar situation if he'd become a hockey player, but different parents handle that differently and it's their right to do so.

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04-22-2013, 11:37 AM
  #40
Atas2000
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Originally Posted by Slay View Post
Tricky topic. While being "ethnically Belarusian" he has an Ukrainian last name and speaks Russian natively but doesn't speak Belarusian or Ukrainian. As I understand he lived little more in Russia than anywhere else (played for Dynamo Moscow from the age of 9 to 15). So culturally I guess he is more Russian, or maybe Russian-American (then again you could say that about many Russian NHLers minus US passport). Ethnically? I have no idea. But he is surely closer to an ethnic Russian than "I am not Russian" Yakupov, heh. In any case all that huge territory is sort of a melting pot, especially for Slavs. Probably every 4th Russian citizen has an Ukrainian or Belarusian last name, and quite a bit of Ukrainian and Belarusian citizens have Russian names.
He hay a typical belorussian name. Just saying.

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04-22-2013, 11:40 AM
  #41
Yakushev72
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Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
Let's stay with the facts.

Galchenyuk is an ethnic Belorussian and Pätzold is an ethnic German.

Nonetheless obviously the 90's had this effect. A lot of players and coaches and just non-hockey ppl moved out of Russia taking their kids with them or the kids were born outside Russia. Every case is different. I know my kid would play for Russia in a similar situation if he'd become a hockey player, but different parents handle that differently and it's their right to do so.
It seems that the original focus of the thread was to consider the number of former Soviet players who took job opportunities in other countries, eventually choosing full citizenship. The term ethnic was used, but I'm not sure the intent was to be that narrow.

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