HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

Interview Dave Feschuk talks about his last article in the Star. Burke wants credit

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-19-2013, 08:34 PM
  #251
francis246
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 239
vCash: 500
Burke doesn't deserve credit in my opinion. His reluctance to get rid of certain players would have hurt this team. Also I think Burke would have made the Luongo deal. So no he doesn't deserve credit for this team being a playoff team. I think Carlyle deserves the most credit as he won the group over, he got the guys to buy into his system. Also he isn't rushing the young players. Giving Kadri a chance is huge and I think he's handling the Gardiner situation fine.

francis246 is offline  
Old
04-19-2013, 08:39 PM
  #252
egd27
#freethebigpicture
 
egd27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,389
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by francis246 View Post
Burke doesn't deserve credit in my opinion. His reluctance to get rid of certain players would have hurt this team. Also I think Burke would have made the Luongo deal. So no he doesn't deserve credit for this team being a playoff team. I think Carlyle deserves the most credit as he won the group over, he got the guys to buy into his system. Also he isn't rushing the young players. Giving Kadri a chance is huge and I think he's handling the Gardiner situation fine.
Yup. Thank goodness Nonis brought in Carlyle. Not to mention Kadri.

egd27 is offline  
Old
04-19-2013, 08:43 PM
  #253
Rockinz
Leafs 4 the cup
 
Rockinz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Leaf Land
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,110
vCash: 500
Burke wants credit because he deserves credit.

Rockinz is offline  
Old
04-19-2013, 08:46 PM
  #254
Teeder9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,738
vCash: 500
Never minded Burke. Didn't care in the least about the press conferences or the image he projected. Neither contributed to the teams on ice awfulness. What I did mind was keeping Wilson after it became apparent he wasn't the answer here. Didn't like the Kessel trade either, but it's hard to argue the results. In the end, this is the team he built for better or worse and Nonis will likely put his mark on it sooner rather than later. We'll see how it goes.

Teeder9 is offline  
Old
04-19-2013, 09:01 PM
  #255
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 57,696
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulster2626 View Post
Who's singling him out? All we're saying is the current team has his fingerprints all over it, and he deserves some credit for building what appears to be a pretty good hockey team.

Doesn't matter if other teams are doing well - what matters is that this one is.
Burke deserves more credit for the results of the team while he was in control effecting them, then afterwards when others are now.

Lets not lose sight of the fact he was fired for his performance and replaced.

Nonis and Carlyle the people in charge now are due the credit for the success of the team, as its now governed by their decisions.

__________________
Signature: There is no greater demonstration of Fan patience then to suggest to "Play the Kids " and be willing to accept the consequences of those actions..
Mess is offline  
Old
04-19-2013, 09:18 PM
  #256
agropop
Registered User
 
agropop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Windsor
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,068
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Burke deserves more credit for the results of the team while he was in control effecting them, then afterwards when others are now.

Lets not lose sight of the fact he was fired for his performance and replaced.

Nonis and Carlyle the people in charge now are due the credit for the success of the team, as its now governed by their decisions.

Their decisions didn't build the team, Carlyle didn't hire himself... Does Nonis get credit for JFJs draft selections too?

Nonsense.

agropop is offline  
Old
04-20-2013, 09:13 PM
  #257
Espher
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Fredericton, N.B.
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,495
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Espher Send a message via AIM to Espher Send a message via MSN to Espher Send a message via Yahoo to Espher
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeWantACup View Post
IMHO I love that Dave threw a few shots back at Burke, as I said in the show anyone who says he wants to haunt the Leafs is no friend.

I hope Burke gets shot down every time he talks down about our team. This guy has the guts to go speak at MIT and says to the stats folks "Statistics are like a lamp post to a drunk. Useful for support but not for illumination." His redioric hurt this team.
Well, at least we know Feschuk has a fan.

Espher is offline  
Old
04-20-2013, 10:42 PM
  #258
number72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,840
vCash: 500
JFJ wants credit for drafting Reimer. Man is burke so needy that he needs to feel validated. Give it up Burke

number72 is online now  
Old
04-21-2013, 12:45 AM
  #259
Krazy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,835
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
JFJ wants credit for drafting Reimer. Man is burke so needy that he needs to feel validated. Give it up Burke
When Burke was here he always gave JFj credit for Reimer and the players he brought in. Why wouldn't he.... Burke deserves credit for staying the course and saying he believes in Reimer. Burke called him the real deal when many were clamouring for a trade.

You have to give credit where it is due and its not all for Burke. Just the vast majority.

Krazy is offline  
Old
04-21-2013, 12:57 AM
  #260
Superstar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,592
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by francis246 View Post
Burke doesn't deserve credit in my opinion. His reluctance to get rid of certain players would have hurt this team. Also I think Burke would have made the Luongo deal. So no he doesn't deserve credit for this team being a playoff team. I think Carlyle deserves the most credit as he won the group over, he got the guys to buy into his system. Also he isn't rushing the young players. Giving Kadri a chance is huge and I think he's handling the Gardiner situation fine.
Everyone of influence in this Leafs' organization that runs this hockey team is there because of Burke: The management team, the scouts, Nonis, Carlyle, and many of the players. You can say you don't like him and his style, but to deny Burke credit is ignorant. (And you know he didn't hire Wilson right?) His bane was keeping Wilson an extra year too long, but he did hire Carlyle.

Superstar is offline  
Old
04-21-2013, 06:38 AM
  #261
Platapie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,741
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Burke deserves more credit for the results of the team while he was in control effecting them, then afterwards when others are now.

Lets not lose sight of the fact he was fired for his performance and replaced.

Nonis and Carlyle the people in charge now are due the credit for the success of the team, as its now governed by their decisions.
You're smarter than this Mess. Burke and Leaf nation collectively paid almost a decade for the free wheeling, prospect trading eras prior to JFJ, then the absolute mediocrity that was JFJ and then to an extent Fletcher.

Burke inherited a team with next to no talent and has set it up extremely well both now and in the future. JVR, Lupul, Phaneuf, Kadri to name but 4 were complete steals. You could even argue Kadri fell in his lap but none of the others were anything but sheer robbery and this team is awful without them.

The big difference this year is the emergence of Kadri, JVR and goaltending. To claim Burke should not get credit is absolutely asinine. This is his team through and through, and it wasn't by sitting still.

Platapie is offline  
Old
04-21-2013, 07:03 AM
  #262
hullsy47
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,577
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeder9 View Post
Never minded Burke. Didn't care in the least about the press conferences or the image he projected. Neither contributed to the teams on ice awfulness. What I did mind was keeping Wilson after it became apparent he wasn't the answer here. Didn't like the Kessel trade either, but it's hard to argue the results. In the end, this is the team he built for better or worse and Nonis will likely put his mark on it sooner rather than later. We'll see how it goes.
we could have made the playoffs before this if burke had canned wilson two years earlier ...especially when he got a free years pay this year !!.burke msay be a decent hockey man ,but if u cant fire a coach or make a major trade to skake up a team ,those errors will factor if he works again ......id like to see carlyle have more say in player /personal moves .....
he just seems to be so aware of his player at all times ,something burke and his bull ,,,, loyalty didnt produce.

hullsy47 is offline  
Old
04-21-2013, 07:36 AM
  #263
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 54,539
vCash: 500
Certainly Burke gets some credit for the team, same way that JFj does, and to a lessor extent Fletcher.

But let's not forget Nonis did quite a bit of the work on some key trades, so Nonis gets some credit as well for assets prior to being named GM.

A team isn't built in less than 5 years. No one person in Detroit has taken credit for their success. A team player doesn't stand alone when it comes to accepting the rewards.

And well, let's get to the bottom of this, what credit are we talking about the same credit that 15 other GM's are going to get this year?

Setting the bar pretty low here are we?

__________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Keon

He was the Leafs' leading scorer in the 196364, 196667 and 196970 seasons, and the team's top goal scorer in 197071 and 197273. Keon was considered one of the fastest skaters in the NHL, and one of the best defensive forwards of his era.[3] He would usually play against the opposing team's top centre, and developed a reputation for neutralizing some of the league's top scorers. In 197071, he scored eight shorthanded goals, setting an NHL record.
ULF_55 is offline  
Old
04-21-2013, 07:54 AM
  #264
CreeksideStrangler
Registered User
 
CreeksideStrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: London, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,245
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Certainly Burke gets some credit for the team, same way that JFj does, and to a lessor extent Fletcher.

But let's not forget Nonis did quite a bit of the work on some key trades, so Nonis gets some credit as well for assets prior to being named GM.

A team isn't built in less than 5 years. No one person in Detroit has taken credit for their success. A team player doesn't stand alone when it comes to accepting the rewards.

And well, let's get to the bottom of this, what credit are we talking about the same credit that 15 other GM's are going to get this year?

Setting the bar pretty low here are we?
How does this team even remotely resemble jfj or fletcher??? Your reaching... its 99% burke

CreeksideStrangler is offline  
Old
04-21-2013, 08:05 AM
  #265
asdf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country:
Posts: 2,008
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hullsy47 View Post
we could have made the playoffs before this if burke had canned wilson two years earlier ...especially when he got a free years pay this year !!.burke msay be a decent hockey man ,but if u cant fire a coach or make a major trade to skake up a team ,those errors will factor if he works again ......id like to see carlyle have more say in player /personal moves .....
he just seems to be so aware of his player at all times ,something burke and his bull ,,,, loyalty didnt produce.
I like Carlyle and was not a fan of Wilson in the least, but this is a simple, baseless argument.

One of the key reasons for the turnaround is that the team was absolutely cursed with goaltending in previous years under Wilson, while this year they received goaltending at a level that they haven't had since 2004. Coincidentally, or maybe it's not a coincidence, that's the last time they made the playoffs.

Who knows if they are where they are now if they fired Wilson earlier. Maybe Lupul doesn't emerge under a different coach. Maybe Kessel doesn't become the player he is know under a different coach.

Instead of being revisionists, and I am guilty of this myself, maybe we should accept that various things, even things that may have seemed bad, have contributed to where the team is now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Certainly Burke gets some credit for the team, same way that JFj does, and to a lessor extent Fletcher.

But let's not forget Nonis did quite a bit of the work on some key trades, so Nonis gets some credit as well for assets prior to being named GM.

A team isn't built in less than 5 years. No one person in Detroit has taken credit for their success. A team player doesn't stand alone when it comes to accepting the rewards.

And well, let's get to the bottom of this, what credit are we talking about the same credit that 15 other GM's are going to get this year?

Setting the bar pretty low here are we?
I don't think Burke is saying he deserves all of the credit for the team. In fact, one of the reasons that we know Nonis did a lot of the work on trades is because Burke told us. This is something has done in the past as well; give his people credit.

He had to go through the bad years with the team due to previous regimes, and had to take the resulting criticism from the fans and media. Then he gets fired right before the team turns it around, and not only is he not getting the credit from some people, there are some that are making the correlation that his dismissal is the reason for the improvement with the team.

Burke's feeling is natural.

asdf is offline  
Old
04-21-2013, 08:17 AM
  #266
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 54,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CreeksideStrangler View Post
How does this team even remotely resemble jfj or fletcher??? Your reaching... its 99% burke
Who is their starting goalie?
Who are Kulemin, Gunnarsson, and Komarov and the PK?

Sorry, but Burke didn't create this team out of nothing. The team is gifted with 7 draft picks every year, yes even if you were the GM the league would give you 7 draft picks.

Getting Phaneuf wasn't magic, they traded quite a few assets that were on the team for Phaneuf. And from what I read Nonis did a lot of the work on this deal. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=413804

Schenn (Fletcher) begat van Riemsdyk.

Is Genesis 1:31 about Burke?

Lupul and Gardiner (what happened to him?) in my opinion are absolute steals that Burke did. Signing Beauchemin as UFA and then trading him back to the Ducks for a salary dump and prospect. Sometimes those salary dumps ...

ULF_55 is offline  
Old
04-21-2013, 08:27 AM
  #267
Pi
Registered User
 
Pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,667
vCash: 100
I love how people are quick to give Burke credit...don't forget that this is the same GM that was hesitant to fire his best friend DESPITE coming out and saying that he and Wilson differed on their vision of the hockey team and the fact that Wilson did NOT want a rough/truculent team.

Burke preached a tough team but was unable to deliver. Nonis and Carlyle walked the walk instead of talking the talk.

I give him credit for assembling the roster, I give him zero credit for the playoffs though. Wilson should have been fired 2 years ago.

Wilson is the ONLY coach in the Leafs ~100 year history that remained a coach despite failures year after year. Paul Maurice was better than Wilson...let that sink in.

Pi is offline  
Old
04-21-2013, 08:31 AM
  #268
kilgro
Thank you Burke!
 
kilgro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,270
vCash: 500
he gets about 80% of the credit in my books. the man worked wonders for not only the Leafs but our organization as a whole and the Marlies too.

kilgro is offline  
Old
04-21-2013, 08:42 AM
  #269
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 54,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilgro View Post
he gets about 80% of the credit in my books. the man worked wonders for not only the Leafs but our organization as a whole and the Marlies too.
I give him credit for taking some of the influence of MLSE away from the decisions.

I see no reason why JFj could not have rebuilt the team when he went to the board and they said no other than he was a young executive, whereas Burke had his pedigree.

Funny that it took 3 years for the board to accept JFj's plan, even after going through Fletcher and a year of Burke's accelerated plan. Even Burke was ignorant to what had to be done or had to fight the board's desire for playoffs revenue.

ULF_55 is offline  
Old
04-21-2013, 08:45 AM
  #270
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,787
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by CreeksideStrangler View Post
How does this team even remotely resemble jfj or fletcher??? Your reaching... its 99% burke
99% Burke ?

Reimer
Gunner
Kul
Komorov
Grabo
Frattin

all non Burke and we're not sitting in a playoff spot without Reims .

hotpaws is offline  
Old
04-21-2013, 08:46 AM
  #271
kilgro
Thank you Burke!
 
kilgro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,270
vCash: 500
i still think JFJ could have been a good GM for us had he been given full control. he has a great eye for talent

kilgro is offline  
Old
04-21-2013, 08:57 AM
  #272
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,787
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilgro View Post
i still think JFJ could have been a good GM for us had he been given full control. he has a great eye for talent
Being a good scout doesn't mean you'll be a good GM .

hotpaws is offline  
Old
04-21-2013, 08:59 AM
  #273
kilgro
Thank you Burke!
 
kilgro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,270
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Being a good scout doesn't mean you'll be a good GM .
well i'm not saying he would have been Brian Burke good but i think he would have done a lot better job had he been given the control

kilgro is offline  
Old
04-21-2013, 09:03 AM
  #274
eyeball11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,742
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by francis246 View Post
Burke doesn't deserve credit in my opinion. His reluctance to get rid of certain players would have hurt this team. Also I think Burke would have made the Luongo deal. So no he doesn't deserve credit for this team being a playoff team. I think Carlyle deserves the most credit as he won the group over, he got the guys to buy into his system. Also he isn't rushing the young players. Giving Kadri a chance is huge and I think he's handling the Gardiner situation fine.
So you would refuse him credit based on your imagination?

eyeball11 is offline  
Old
04-21-2013, 09:05 AM
  #275
eyeball11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,742
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Burke deserves more credit for the results of the team while he was in control effecting them, then afterwards when others are now.

Lets not lose sight of the fact he was fired for his performance and replaced.

Nonis and Carlyle the people in charge now are due the credit for the success of the team, as its now governed by their decisions.
.....as were the people responsible for Chicago, Boston and Pittsburgh.

eyeball11 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:02 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.