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Old
04-20-2013, 09:11 AM
  #326
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
I see an awful lot of people in here say that over and over, despite (in over 12 months) Downie playing but 22 games and scoring but 2 goals for the Avs. Why are so many people in here so happy?
Quincey was pain in the ass and probably reason why he was traded.

Of course Downie's health is concern just like Wilson's, but I still rather have Downie. At least he wants to be here and he's not whining.

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04-20-2013, 11:42 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Colorado Avalanche View Post
Quincey was pain in the ass and probably reason why he was traded.

Of course Downie's health is concern just like Wilson's, but I still rather have Downie. At least he wants to be here and he's not whining.
I hate the guy and thought he was pretty bad during his tenure here even though soooo many people stuck up for his ass. Having said that I hate that everything he said about the organization was right.

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04-20-2013, 12:11 PM
  #328
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That or the fact Anderson was down right awful before he was traded to Ottawa.
Well that's why they didn't want to pay him. Just pointing out why they traded them when their value was low as opposed to high. It was their last chance to get something for them, instead of paying them or letting them walk.

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04-20-2013, 12:16 PM
  #329
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Avs relashionship with Anderson went south well before he started to play like crap, it was right after he rejected what was a fair deal offered by the Avs.

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04-20-2013, 01:20 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Avs relashionship with Anderson went south well before he started to play like crap, it was right after he rejected what was a fair deal offered by the Avs.
Yep, pretty much this. But instead of sucking it up like a decent human being he decided to act childish and play his way out of town. He very well could have earned 5mil over 3-4 years if he had just repeated his season with us once again and stuck it to management at the time.

No regrets here though, not interested in having quitters on the team. Regardless of who they are, even if Varly, Duchy, EJ or any turns out to be a true blue quitter like Andy was, ship em the hell out. Good news is it's few and far between people with character defects like that, at least at the NHL level.

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Old
04-20-2013, 03:52 PM
  #331
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And yet Downie only has 2 less points than Quincey this season.
And Downie has 3 less than Erik Johnson.

So your point is....?

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04-20-2013, 04:07 PM
  #332
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Quincey was very inconsistent with us and it wasn't just 3 or 4 bad games in a row, he would go a month straight of playing like an AHL player. He had a lot of good stretches of play as well but you can't commit long-term to a player like that. There was talk of him getting $4-5M/yr at one point last season. Then he went and completely **** the bed for the Wings and got a two year contract for less than $4M. He was just recently a healthy scratch for a team desperately trying to make the playoffs and he's having another bad season. Sure he might be better than some of the guys we have on defense but that's not saying much.

It sucks that Downie got injured at the end of last season and this season but that was a good trade for us. It was only 20 games and I don't expect them to produce like that over 82 games but Landeskog-O'Reilly-Downie was one of the best lines in the NHL after the trade. Hopefully Downie returns close to the level he was at before and we re-sign him.

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04-20-2013, 04:22 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
And Downie has 3 less than Erik Johnson.

So your point is....?
That this thread has taught me that trades are measured in points, thus the Avs did well in that trade.

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Old
04-20-2013, 07:02 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
That this thread has taught me that trades are measured in points, thus the Avs did well in that trade.
Funny response, but still a bit of a dodge.

My original question though, is why so many fans in here are happy with the Downie trade, given he's been injured pretty much the whole time he's been with the team.

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Old
04-20-2013, 07:07 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
Funny response, but still a bit of a dodge.

My original question though, is why so many fans in here are happy with the Downie trade, given he's been injured pretty much the whole time he's been with the team.
Because Avs got the best player? That Downie has been injured is not fun, but not something that is relevant when it comes to evaluating a trade, unless one expects clairvoyance of their GM.

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04-20-2013, 07:30 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
Funny response, but still a bit of a dodge.

My original question though, is why so many fans in here are happy with the Downie trade, given he's been injured pretty much the whole time he's been with the team.
It's a knee injury, and Downie isn't exactly a speedster to begin with. He'll be effective in his role next year. It was a good trade, especially looking at how Quincey has played since the trade, while Detroit had the depth, Quincey was often scratched and generally is considered to have regressed or at the most stayed where he is.

Downie is the better and more valuable player IMO. We really missed Downie's nose around the net, a 40 point winger is a harder hit than it looks especially since Downie usually has more of an impact on the game than just the offense that he produces.

It wouldn't of been so bad if Jones had decided he was going to continue to be an NHL player, but we basically lost 80 points with Jones sucking and Downie out.

Just a thought here, but half of O'Reilly and Landeskog for much of the season, Jones sucking ass, and Downie out after two games is quite a bit of offense.

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04-20-2013, 07:51 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
Funny response, but still a bit of a dodge.

My original question though, is why so many fans in here are happy with the Downie trade, given he's been injured pretty much the whole time he's been with the team.
He's talented and plays the game with an edge, two things that can't be said about the majority of Avs players. Even though it's a small sample size, 14 points in 22 games is respectable.

The fact that he isn't soft as butter is enough to please me. Beyond sick of the Paul Stastny/David Jones-type play styles. You don't win playoff games with guys like these. Or regular season games apparently.

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Old
04-20-2013, 08:28 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
He's talented and plays the game with an edge, two things that can't be said about the majority of Avs players. Even though it's a small sample size, 14 points in 22 games is respectable.

The fact that he isn't soft as butter is enough to please me. Beyond sick of the Paul Stastny/David Jones-type play styles. You don't win playoff games with guys like these. Or regular season games apparently.
I hear you. I wasn't actually trying to analyze the trade there or pin blame on Sherman, but rather try and figure out why people are 'happy' with it, given the results.

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04-20-2013, 08:29 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Just a thought here, but half of O'Reilly and Landeskog for much of the season, Jones sucking ass, and Downie out after two games is quite a bit of offense.
Yes it is. Combine that with nothing coming from the blue line, and we have what we have. Can you imagine what this would look like if Duchene and Parenteau didn't show up big this season?

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04-20-2013, 08:47 PM
  #340
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Yes it is. Combine that with nothing coming from the blue line, and we have what we have. Can you imagine what this would look like if Duchene and Parenteau didn't show up big this season?
We wouldn't be worried about Florida, Calgary, Carolina, etc right now. 30th place would've been locked up 20 games ago.

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04-20-2013, 09:04 PM
  #341
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Abasin, here in Detroit, Quincey is the butt of a lot of jokes. On sports radio here, they make fun of the Quincey trade on a weekly basis. He's considered one of the worst players on the team by pretty much everyone in the city lol. We dominated that trade by getting Downie, even though he is hurt.

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04-20-2013, 10:39 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
Funny response, but still a bit of a dodge.

My original question though, is why so many fans in here are happy with the Downie trade, given he's been injured pretty much the whole time he's been with the team.
c'mon AB, this is JF Flurrie type hyperbole. Sherman has no control over whether or not the players he trades for get injured. Even if it is infrequent, Downie has been a positive in more games than he has been a negative. We haven't been able to say that about Quincey since 2009.

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04-20-2013, 11:28 PM
  #343
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I hear you. I wasn't actually trying to analyze the trade there or pin blame on Sherman, but rather try and figure out why people are 'happy' with it, given the results.
There's nothing else to be happy about?

But honestly, the Steve Downie trade is the one I'm most satisfied with throughout the Greg Sherman tenure. Unlike the Varlamov/Johnson trades, I feel this move is the one time where he didn't pay top dollar for a young player with upside. And as I said before, this is a player I actually like.

Granted, I was satisfied with both the Varlamov/Johnson trades initially. But as time has passed, they haven't worked out well due to a combination of their own play and the players surrounding them.

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04-21-2013, 01:21 AM
  #344
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I have taken great issue with Sherman over the Varlamov and EJ trades amongst other things but shipping out Quincey for Downie is really not one of them.

Downie might be hurt, but much like the Flash situation, they're freak things and your GM can't be expected to predict these things. In terms of value, it was a great trade, and if Downie can rebound from his injury it will continue to be good.

The biggest problem with the EJ and Varly trades is that those players haven't been put in positions to succeed. In EJ's case lack of strong veteran mentorship on the blueline is a real problem. You don't give up a package of that caliber and then throw your prized acquisition in the water to drown.

Same thing with Varly. Pay top dollar for a young goalie, don't get him a goalie coach, and put him behind one of the worst defense groups in the league. No wonder he's had consistency issues

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04-21-2013, 01:26 AM
  #345
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3 reasons why this rebuild looks like crap right now is that in addition to some of Sherman's mistakes, the Mueller, Flash, and Hishon injury situations meant three assets going out for nothing in return.

While Wolski and Hannan have snice played their way out of favor, those guys at the time were some of our tenured players with value, that NEEDED to be converted into suitable assets for the rebuild. And we got great talents for them, and lost them both. The Hishon injury situation means that we essentially have no 1st in 2008, 2010, or 2012. Pretty tough on a rebuilding team.

Between these events and Sherman's miscalculations the rebuild has been absolutely set back, but I don't think its unsalvagable. However, I do think that we're going to need a couple more years to turn the page, IF no more horrible mistakes are made (O'reilly situation ) and even more of what we originally thought might be our core will be replaced or upgraded.

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04-21-2013, 07:32 AM
  #346
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c'mon AB, this is JF Flurrie type hyperbole. Sherman has no control over whether or not the players he trades for get injured.
I never said he did, and wasn't pinning anything on Sherman. I was just wondering why people are happy with the results of the trade. It's kind of analagous to the Hishon draft pick. I don't blame anyone for it, and it's not anyone's fault, but the results haven't been good at all.

Anyway, no big deal. I was just wondering. Just wait til next year, I guess....

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04-21-2013, 07:37 AM
  #347
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Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
There's nothing else to be happy about?

But honestly, the Steve Downie trade is the one I'm most satisfied with throughout the Greg Sherman tenure. Unlike the Varlamov/Johnson trades, I feel this move is the one time where he didn't pay top dollar for a young player with upside. And as I said before, this is a player I actually like.
I've been critical of the EJ and Varlamov trades, and was on the fence with the Downie one. That one's kind of an incomplete, since we simply haven't seen Downie play much. Quincey's play has been pretty mediocre 2nd pairing defense, but given the play of Colorado's blueline this season, I'm having some difficulty picking apart other teams' defensemen.

The Sherman trade I did (and do) like, is the McGinn trade.

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04-21-2013, 07:38 AM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
3 reasons why this rebuild looks like crap right now is that in addition to some of Sherman's mistakes, the Mueller, Flash, and Hishon injury situations meant three assets going out for nothing in return.

While Wolski and Hannan have snice played their way out of favor, those guys at the time were some of our tenured players with value, that NEEDED to be converted into suitable assets for the rebuild. And we got great talents for them, and lost them both. The Hishon injury situation means that we essentially have no 1st in 2008, 2010, or 2012. Pretty tough on a rebuilding team.

Between these events and Sherman's miscalculations the rebuild has been absolutely set back, but I don't think its unsalvagable. However, I do think that we're going to need a couple more years to turn the page, IF no more horrible mistakes are made (O'reilly situation ) and even more of what we originally thought might be our core will be replaced or upgraded.
Some really good points made in this post.

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04-21-2013, 08:17 AM
  #349
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I never said he did, and wasn't pinning anything on Sherman. I was just wondering why people are happy with the results of the trade. It's kind of analagous to the Hishon draft pick. I don't blame anyone for it, and it's not anyone's fault, but the results haven't been good at all.

Anyway, no big deal. I was just wondering. Just wait til next year, I guess....
The result of the trade was getting Downie in an Avs jersey. Nothing else.

Downie or Hishon being injured isn't any different than Hejduk, Wilson or Stastny being injured.

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04-21-2013, 11:12 AM
  #350
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Since trading for Quincey, Detroit's record when Quincey is in the line up.

14W-36L.

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