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Would the Habs benefit from a Heavyweight enforcer? Part 3

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Old
04-21-2013, 10:27 AM
  #326
Sorinth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I just listed at least seven of them who could/would/did fight. They had more skill and they beat them with that skill, but they didn't go to Philly unarmed.

Nice try though.
And we have 9 players who've fought this season and are 7th in total fights.

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04-21-2013, 10:33 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
And we have 9 players who've fought this season and are 7th in total fights.
bid deal

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04-21-2013, 10:46 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
And we have 9 players who've fought this season and are 7th in total fights.
What's your point? I was responding to someone who said that the 70's Habs didn't have fighters.

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04-21-2013, 11:15 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
What's your point? I was responding to someone who said that the 70's Habs didn't have fighters.
No. He said they didn't have any goons who could only fight and not play (you know, what this thread is about). I'm pretty sure every single person on this board would be in favour of adding quality players who will also drop the gloves.

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04-21-2013, 11:39 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Prairie Habs View Post
No. He said they didn't have any goons who could only fight and not play (you know, what this thread is about). I'm pretty sure every single person on this board would be in favour of adding quality players who will also drop the gloves.
Uh? He said that the only truly physical player was Larry Robinson... Here, read for yourself...

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=324

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04-21-2013, 11:45 AM
  #331
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We need to get bigger and tougher. Simple as that.

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04-21-2013, 01:15 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
We need to get bigger and tougher. Simple as that.
And to think that White has been neutered.
And Prust is playing injured.

I predict 4 game exit - with injuries - to our beloved, and dainty, Habs.

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04-21-2013, 05:09 PM
  #333
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We need one, no doubt about it. Our 4th liners aren't much better. WE need another dimension and we need to light a spark under the rest of the team. I wouldn't stop at one either. One legit heavy and another tweener like prust.

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04-22-2013, 10:30 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by SherbrookeW View Post
"Not preaching one way or another but you might not have used the best example there. After seeing the Flyers using intimidation to win two consecutive Cups, Scotty Bowman, then Montreal coach, got a bunch of goons to play a pre-season game vs Philly in the 1975-1976 season. Many say that move had turned the tables around as the Flyers were unable, from that point on, to intimidate the Canadiens who then went on to win four Stanley Cups in a row."

I don't know you were in 1975-76, but it wasn't at the Forum. Winning or losing a pre-season game with "goons" -- who, exactly?-- had exactly nothing to do with the Habs triumph that year. It was true that, briefly, Bowman put together a muscle beach line of Chartraw, Bouchard, and I think Cam Connor, to show the Flyers that the Habs wouldn't be intimidated. But the Habs beat the Flyers entirely and exclusively by outskating and outskilling them, from beginning to end. Go back and read the SI round up of the series if you doubt this. Robinson laid a perfectly clean, perfectly solid hip check on Gary Dornhoffer, and that was it for serious physical play by Montreal in that series. Moral? Highly skilled play ALWAYS beats thuggery -- as witness the Red Army teams of the same era. A thug appeals to the thug element; it has nothing whatever to do with winning Cups.
Not sure what you're implying with the first sentence but if you mean I wasn't born, you're wrong. In fact, I doubt you're older than me since it doesn't ring a bell for you. I can't name the players Bowman brought along in Philly (no doubt Lupien, Bouchard and Chartraw were there) but I remember some of the reports; Risebrough fighting Clarke, I think Schultz leaving the bench, referee calling the game with some time left on the clock. That game was later considered as the element that changed the Canadiens attitude towards intimidation.

The Robinson hit on Dornhoefer occurred a few dozens feet below where I was sitting so yes I do remember it. I also remember the celebration in game 4 in Philadelphia, Lambert's goal in OT in Boston, Beliveau's 500th goal against the North Stars (hat trick) and even the Canadiens surprised victory in game 7 in Chicago with Henri Richard as the hero in '71. Must I assume you weren't born or too young to remember any of this?

As for your Red Army comment, another bad example. While Montreal tied them in one of the best games ever played at the Forum, the Flyers beat the Red Army while Clarke, Kelly, Van Impe and co. were intimidating them. The Soviets even left the ice, threatening to end the game.

You're just not finding the right examples that would prove your point.

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04-22-2013, 12:29 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
We need to get bigger and tougher. Simple as that.
We need a better defence. When 4 of your defencemen are comprised of Boullion, Weber, Drewinski and a rookie call- up of the week and your top three defencemen start to become worn down, no matter what level of toughness you insert, you're in trouble. This team has had a great run and has overachieved. To expect them to make any impact in the playoff is both wishful thinking and unrealistic. But sports is unpredictable. And if there is one thing that I have learned over the years, nothing is certain. Price may get hot and the star players may become re-energized. But if it doesn't happen, lets not throw this team under the bus. With the young players we have, a strong draft upcoming and a reasonable amount of cap space available, the future looks a lot brighter than it did a year ago.

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04-22-2013, 02:52 PM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Uh? He said that the only truly physical player was Larry Robinson... Here, read for yourself...

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=324
It's pretty clear from his posts that what he meant was the only person who could fight and win against oppossing heavyweight enforcers was Robinson.

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04-22-2013, 05:25 PM
  #337
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Interesting.

Pens are playing Sens tonight. The Sens are pissed off at Matt Cooke because they think that his cut on Karlsson was intentional.

So what does Bylsma do? Worry about the Sens tough guys targeting his skill players?

No. He makes the call to Wilkes-Barre/Scranton in the AHL and brings up Steve MacIntyre.

Should be a fun game if big Mac is dressed for the game.

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Old
04-22-2013, 05:27 PM
  #338
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Toughness on the back end is a more important issue than up front. We need to redesign the Defence as the #1 priority this offseason.

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04-22-2013, 05:39 PM
  #339
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Prust never topped 13 goals. Semenko had 12 and Schultz had 20 goals and 4 30 pts+ seasons.

Not comparing Prust to those heavyweights. Just pointing they were not goons only.
And tell Gretzky and Clarke they were not a huge part of their success.

We need a mean body on the ice, not only on the bench.

I wonder how many minutes Semenko played per game...

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04-22-2013, 06:21 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by MSSLYNX View Post
Prust never topped 13 goals. Semenko had 12 and Schultz had 20 goals and 4 30 pts+ seasons.

Not comparing Prust to those heavyweights. Just pointing they were not goons only.
And tell Gretzky and Clarke they were not a huge part of their success.

We need a mean body on the ice, not only on the bench.

I wonder how many minutes Semenko played per game...
not the same area. Both Semenko and Schultz would never get the same number in the modern days

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04-22-2013, 06:34 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by brian70 View Post
Not sure what you're implying with the first sentence but if you mean I wasn't born, you're wrong. In fact, I doubt you're older than me since it doesn't ring a bell for you. I can't name the players Bowman brought along in Philly (no doubt Lupien, Bouchard and Chartraw were there) but I remember some of the reports; Risebrough fighting Clarke, I think Schultz leaving the bench, referee calling the game with some time left on the clock. That game was later considered as the element that changed the Canadiens attitude towards intimidation.

The Robinson hit on Dornhoefer occurred a few dozens feet below where I was sitting so yes I do remember it. I also remember the celebration in game 4 in Philadelphia, Lambert's goal in OT in Boston, Beliveau's 500th goal against the North Stars (hat trick) and even the Canadiens surprised victory in game 7 in Chicago with Henri Richard as the hero in '71. Must I assume you weren't born or too young to remember any of this?

As for your Red Army comment, another bad example. While Montreal tied them in one of the best games ever played at the Forum, the Flyers beat the Red Army while Clarke, Kelly, Van Impe and co. were intimidating them. The Soviets even left the ice, threatening to end the game.

You're just not finding the right examples that would prove your point.
Bouchard won his fight against Schultz during the Playoffs in Philly and it was the end of the Broas Street Bullies domination.

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Old
04-22-2013, 06:50 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Maltese View Post
Bouchard won his fight against Schultz during the Playoffs in Philly and it was the end of the Broas Street Bullies domination.
Nah... the Philly domination was not even started at that point. Bouchard did win the fight but it never stopped the Broad street bullies style. Winning or losing the fight has pretty much nothing to do with the outcome of a single game.

You really thing Shultz and co. became Born Again Christians after that one fight?

From another site: During the 1972-73 season, Schultz's rookie year, Dave and Bouchard had 3 fights on Dec.3, Feb.17 and March 18. One fight was a draw, Bouchard beat The Hammer in one fight and Schultz pummeled Bouchard cutting him cut pretty good to take the edge in the series. Unfortunately they never fought again.

Philly won the cup the next 2 years.

Shultz was 6'1 185 btw. Not 6'5 240.

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04-22-2013, 07:26 PM
  #343
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The proper way to use an enforcer.

If you are not watching the Pens Sens game, you are missing what Montreal has been missing for many years.

Michalek hits Orpik high and Orpik responds by getting into Michalek's face. Linesmen break them up.

A shift or two later, Neil goes after Orpik. Big MacIntyre steps in front of Neil, Neil tucks his tail, skates away and all he can do is yap at the Pens bench.

If this were Sens vs Habs, Neil would not have had anyone step in and stop him from doing whatever he wanted to.

Kudos to the Pens from pulling big Mac up for this game. Hopefully Bergevin is watching and finally gets an idea for next season.

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Old
04-22-2013, 07:30 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
The proper way to use an enforcer.

If you are not watching the Pens Sens game, you are missing what Montreal has been missing for many years.

Michalek hits Orpik high and Orpik responds by getting into Michalek's face. Linesmen break them up.

A shift or two later, Neil goes after Orpik. Big MacIntyre steps in front of Neil, Neil tucks his tail, skates away and all he can do is yap at the Pens bench.

If this were Sens vs Habs, Neil would not have had anyone step in and stop him from doing whatever he wanted to.

Kudos to the Pens from pulling big Mac up for this game. Hopefully Bergevin is watching and finally gets an idea for next season.
The sad thing is you actually having to explain why we need a "tough guy" and how the game operates with those kinds of players.

It's not a knock on you. It's a knock on those who oppose this part of hockey.

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04-22-2013, 07:31 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
And we have 9 players who've fought this season and are 7th in total fights.
Just reviewed all 15 non-Prust fights. Not pretty.

White? Jumped Fleischman, could not hit Zach Smith and got in with Kurtis Foster. He must prove something at one point. Did not this year. Went back to last year: not better. Lost unanimous bouts with rookie Gudbranson, overmatched with Neil (not a surprise), did ok with McQuaid, jumped (again) Veilleux. Tends to get the first punch in and then not taking advantage.
Gorges? We remember how this turned out.
Subban? Cant fight.
Emelin? Cant fight. Got overwhelmed 3 times.
Bouillon did good against Ott.
Gallagher? Yikes
Dumont? not here anymore
Moen? Surprised me by going into real fights, not caught up in a situation. Very concerned with replacing his helmet instead of getting rid of it though. Tried to run away from Simmonds which was funny.

These 8 guys cannot/should not do it. Most of the times refs had to get in to stop the bouts. Or no real punches landing.

Nothing from our "power forwards" Bourque (rocked by one punch and did not ask for more in the Toronto game) or Max P.

Prust with 10 fights. Thats a lot... Fighting is down in poffs but is it out? Any help would be nice here.

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04-22-2013, 07:34 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
It's pretty clear from his posts that what he meant was the only person who could fight and win against oppossing heavyweight enforcers was Robinson.
That would be one more thing wrong then.

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05-05-2013, 08:52 PM
  #347
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Two full threads on this subject.

346 posts on this thread.

And the common denominator was that the Habs do not need tough guys.

"There Is NO FIGHTING In The Playoffs".

The Bruins and the Leafs have the two teams with the most tough guys.

Look at the ****ing box score last night. One pissed off Thornton fight against Fraser at the end of the game. That's it. No more than that. The other fight in their series was Komarov vs Kelly.

Now look at the Sens vs Habs. Because the Habs dont match up in size and toughness against Kassian and Neil, they take advantage of it and beat the **** out of the Habs on the ice.

Wonder why that happened? Because the Sens or any other team can. Nothing more than that. Pound the Habs and you win.

But the tough Leafs and Bruins are not fighting because they have plenty of tough guys.


That point is lost and will probably remain lost for most here.

Enjoy the ass whipping on the ice boys.

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05-05-2013, 09:26 PM
  #348
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We need to get bigger.

We need to ge tougher.

We need to have more players that can actually win fights.

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05-05-2013, 09:28 PM
  #349
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SouthernHab and Hannibal FTW

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05-05-2013, 09:40 PM
  #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Two full threads on this subject.

346 posts on this thread.

And the common denominator was that the Habs do not need tough guys.

"There Is NO FIGHTING In The Playoffs".

The Bruins and the Leafs have the two teams with the most tough guys.

Look at the ****ing box score last night. One pissed off Thornton fight against Fraser at the end of the game. That's it. No more than that. The other fight in their series was Komarov vs Kelly.

Now look at the Sens vs Habs. Because the Habs dont match up in size and toughness against Kassian and Neil, they take advantage of it and beat the **** out of the Habs on the ice.

Wonder why that happened? Because the Sens or any other team can. Nothing more than that. Pound the Habs and you win.

But the tough Leafs and Bruins are not fighting because they have plenty of tough guys.


That point is lost and will probably remain lost for most here.

Enjoy the ass whipping on the ice boys.
You guys can take Frazer Mclaren from us, honestly leafs fans just bash him to pieces, its not so nice.

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