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Long-term roster-building discussion (Full contract chart in post #1)

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Old
04-20-2013, 09:00 PM
  #451
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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it's hard to take people seriously when they talk in absolutes about this upcoming off-season. unless its something along the lines of TK must walk.
No doubt. But...man does TK gotta go.

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Old
04-20-2013, 09:02 PM
  #452
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Orpik+TK+Glass should be the ones traded. That's just under 7M for those 3. Orpik+TK to Oilers for a 2nd+prospect. Glass to anywhere for whatever is best offer.

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04-20-2013, 09:25 PM
  #453
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Orpik as been a Pens stallwart and as one more year on his contract. Martin may have more appeal in that he has two years locked up but a little pricey. Just trying to sign Dupuis, Murray and Iginla and leave some room. I agree Orpik is heading south, but the Pens think highly of him as a long time Penguin. Dupuis if signed still gives the Pens the Crosby line of Dupuis and Kunitz. Malkin with Neal and Bennett is also really good even if Iginla walks. But the Pens still need a young preferably RH shot for third wing. I am sure the Pens would want to extend Sutter but have no idea what the cost is so I only have Letang and Malkin for 2014/15 season.

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04-20-2013, 09:48 PM
  #454
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FORWARDS
Beau Bennett ($0.900m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) ($0.900m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Jarome Iginla ($5.000m)
Pascal Dupuis ($2.500m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Matt Cooke ($1.500m)
Versatile 4th liner-Dustin Jeffrey ($0.688m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Craig Adams ($0.675m)
DEFENSEMEN
Simon Despres ($0.840m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Scott Harrington ($0.894m)
Matt Niskanen ($2.300m) / Douglas Murray ($2.000m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.701m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)
OTHER
Buyout: Brooks Orpik ($0.000m)
Buyout: Jussi Jokinen ($0.000m)
Buyout: Tanner Glass ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,238,833; BONUSES: $307,500
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $2,368,667

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04-20-2013, 10:36 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Yeah, I hadn't thought much about the cap constraints for other contenders. I don't imagine Iginla would want to go back to the WC and face Calgary on a regular basis, either.

Ack, I don't want to put too much stock in this. Gets my hopes up, haha.
I'm not saying to get our hopes up, but we shouldn't use Doan as an example or assume he absolutely would turn down 4m.

He very well may, but Iggy is a guy who will have more than a few opportunities to make quite a nice income when he retires due to his name and ties to the Flames.

If he could make 12m over 3 yrs with the Pens vs 16-17m over the same term with a mediocre team, I doubt he will chase after several million more ala Jagr, to be honest.

All just a guess and I may be way off. I just know all those who DO come back will need to take paycuts, except Dupuis.

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04-20-2013, 10:56 PM
  #456
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I think Iginla signs with Pens after the playoffs. He will get 5M for 3 years, Morrow will get offered 3M for 2 years, Murray 2M for 2 years. I think Iginla/Murray will be back, Morrow if he gets a cup, will probably try his luck with the best offer he gets. Probably the Islanders.

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04-21-2013, 12:50 AM
  #457
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Originally Posted by chethejet View Post
Pens can only afford Iginla and must trade Martin. I wonder what Martin will bring from Edmonton or the Wild in a draft pick. If Martin is traded, then Sign Murray for 2 year 2.5 million per. Dupuis at 3 million is the cost to keep him. He may get a bigger offer but that is out of the Pens control. Kunitz, Orpik, and Glass trade Jokinen frees up 10 million for Letang and Malkin which is about 5M in 2014. Next year trading Martin for a pick 2013 gives the Pens 13 million in wiggle room for next year Dupuis 3M, Murray 2.5M and Iginla at 5M that totals 10.5M. Morrow is gone as the Pens need to play Bennett and develop another young winger. So signing those three in 2013/14 has the Pens at approx 2.5 million under. In 2014/15 Pens have 6M to work with assuming cap is at 64M. Martin has to go for a draft pick to make this happen.
You need to cancel your account if you think Paul Martin still needs to be traded.

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Old
04-21-2013, 03:28 AM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Malkinstheman View Post
FORWARDS
Beau Bennett ($0.900m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) ($0.900m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Jarome Iginla ($5.000m)
Pascal Dupuis ($2.500m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Matt Cooke ($1.500m)
Versatile 4th liner-Dustin Jeffrey ($0.688m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Craig Adams ($0.675m)
DEFENSEMEN
Simon Despres ($0.840m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Scott Harrington ($0.894m)
Matt Niskanen ($2.300m) / Douglas Murray ($2.000m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.701m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)
OTHER
Buyout: Brooks Orpik ($0.000m)
Buyout: Jussi Jokinen ($0.000m)
Buyout: Tanner Glass ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,238,833; BONUSES: $307,500
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $2,368,667
no way jokinen is being bought out next year.
0% chance.

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You need to cancel your account if you think Paul Martin still needs to be traded.

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Old
04-21-2013, 07:45 AM
  #459
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If Morrow takes a serious discount I can see him sticking around.

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Old
04-21-2013, 07:56 AM
  #460
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I really do think Morrow will stick around...especially if Iggy sticks around.

What I think gets lost in these two, they aren't your typical hockey players. They played for their respective teams for a very long time. They had deep, deep roots there. Their families are established there, and neither player has ever been traded. You go from a big beautiful house with your kids and wife, to a hotel room. I could not imagine in my wildest being able to go out and perform under these circumstances. Not at all. That being said, I think both want to win in the worst possible way. The Morrow we've seen...that's not a front. That's a guy who will not back down.

I hope both stick around because I think it's a mutually beneficial relationship. They bring something we need, and the off the ice stuff is huge too. You're not going to rattle this team like teams were able to in the past. Why? Another leader in Murray on the back end, two outstanding leaders in Morrow and Iginla at forward, and a great veteran goaltender in Vokoun.

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04-21-2013, 12:15 PM
  #461
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To sign all the players like Murray, Iginla, and Dupuis, the Pens have to clear some room. Trading Martin with a 5 million hit is IMHO the best option for the biggest bang. Nisky, Letang and Simon D are puck moving defensemen are more than adequate. The cost to doing this is more than the cap for next year. Something has to give, and I don't think Orpik is on the block. Plus Martin is much more appealing this year than at any time since he signed here. I suggest Dupuis is more important signing than Iginla. Murray gives the Pens that physical presence that Orpik used to present.

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Old
04-21-2013, 12:25 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by chethejet View Post
To sign all the players like Murray, Iginla, and Dupuis, the Pens have to clear some room. Trading Martin with a 5 million hit is IMHO the best option for the biggest bang. Nisky, Letang and Simon D are puck moving defensemen are more than adequate. The cost to doing this is more than the cap for next year. Something has to give, and I don't think Orpik is on the block. Plus Martin is much more appealing this year than at any time since he signed here. I suggest Dupuis is more important signing than Iginla. Murray gives the Pens that physical presence that Orpik used to present.
Martin is more important defensively than he is as a puck moving d-man. He is just plain better than Orpik. He should be kept unless we absolutely need the difference between his and Orpik's salary.

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04-21-2013, 12:30 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by chethejet View Post
To sign all the players like Murray, Iginla, and Dupuis, the Pens have to clear some room. Trading Martin with a 5 million hit is IMHO the best option for the biggest bang. Nisky, Letang and Simon D are puck moving defensemen are more than adequate. The cost to doing this is more than the cap for next year. Something has to give, and I don't think Orpik is on the block. Plus Martin is much more appealing this year than at any time since he signed here. I suggest Dupuis is more important signing than Iginla. Murray gives the Pens that physical presence that Orpik used to present.
Trading a guy who's been at worst our 2nd best defenseman is a terrible idea. Orpik has been on the decline for years and does not bring anywhere near 3.75 mil in value to us at this point.

We would instantly become a worse team if we dealt Martin. One could argue that losing Orpik would be addition by subtraction at this point, nevermind the cap savings.

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Old
04-21-2013, 12:38 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Trading a guy who's been at worst our 2nd best defenseman is a terrible idea. Orpik has been on the decline for years and does not bring anywhere near 3.75 mil in value to us at this point.

We would instantly become a worse team if we dealt Martin. One could argue that losing Orpik would be addition by subtraction at this point, nevermind the cap savings.
Only problem would be who plays with Martin next year? Dunno if Bortuzzo is ready for that role. I wouldn't count on Eaton after a long playoff run. Murray is a bottom pairing guy at this point in his career. And I doubt DB is going to run two rookies in his top 4 with Despres and Dumoulin.

I think our defense stays largely the same until Despres is more proven and guys like Dumoulin and Harrington get their feet wet.

Nisky might be a logical trade candidate if we're resigning Murray. We have plenty of guys who can step into his role next year.

Dupes is likely going to walk. Cooke as well. TK has to be traded. The guys we brought in will sign on the cheap IMO. We'll be fine.

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04-21-2013, 12:48 PM
  #465
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Only problem would be who plays with Martin next year? Dunno if Bortuzzo is ready for that role. I wouldn't count on Eaton after a long playoff run. Murray is a bottom pairing guy at this point in his career. And I doubt DB is going to run two rookies in his top 4 with Despres and Dumoulin.

I think our defense stays largely the same until Despres is more proven and guys like Dumoulin and Harrington get their feet wet.

Nisky might be a logical trade candidate if we're resigning Murray. We have plenty of guys who can step into his role next year.

Dupes is likely going to walk. Cooke as well. TK has to be traded. The guys we brought in will sign on the cheap IMO. We'll be fine.
I'm in the minority, but I've always liked Martin and Engo together.

Despres - Letang
Martin - Engelland
Murray - Niskanen
Bortuzzo

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04-21-2013, 01:01 PM
  #466
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Only problem would be who plays with Martin next year? Dunno if Bortuzzo is ready for that role. I wouldn't count on Eaton after a long playoff run. Murray is a bottom pairing guy at this point in his career. And I doubt DB is going to run two rookies in his top 4 with Despres and Dumoulin.

I think our defense stays largely the same until Despres is more proven and guys like Dumoulin and Harrington get their feet wet.

Nisky might be a logical trade candidate if we're resigning Murray. We have plenty of guys who can step into his role next year.

Dupes is likely going to walk. Cooke as well. TK has to be traded. The guys we brought in will sign on the cheap IMO. We'll be fine.
I don't think that's an option. We have to move out some salary.

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04-21-2013, 01:15 PM
  #467
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I don't think that's an option. We have to move out some salary.
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Jarome Iginla ($4.500m)
Beau Bennett ($0.900m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Brenden Morrow ($2.000m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Jussi Jokinen ($2.100m)
Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Craig Adams ($0.625m)
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Brooks Orpik ($3.750m)
Simon Despres ($0.840m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Douglas Murray ($2.000m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.800m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.567m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,323,333; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $1,976,667

Nearly 2 mil in cap space with only 2 fourth line forwards to add. Keeping our most expensive D-men. Resigning Murray in lieu of Nisky. Resigning Morrow in lieu of Cooke. And giving Sid a longterm linemate in Iggy.

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04-21-2013, 02:09 PM
  #468
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If we let Kennedy go and trade Glass then that's what, $3.5m saved?

That should be enough for some extensions but I could see the benefit in moving Orpik too.

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04-21-2013, 02:40 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Jarome Iginla ($4.500m)
Beau Bennett ($0.900m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Brenden Morrow ($2.000m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Jussi Jokinen ($2.100m)
Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Craig Adams ($0.625m)
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Brooks Orpik ($3.750m)
Simon Despres ($0.840m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Douglas Murray ($2.000m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.800m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.567m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,323,333; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $1,976,667

Nearly 2 mil in cap space with only 2 fourth line forwards to add. Keeping our most expensive D-men. Resigning Murray in lieu of Nisky. Resigning Morrow in lieu of Cooke. And giving Sid a longterm linemate in Iggy.
No Dupes though.

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Old
04-21-2013, 03:44 PM
  #470
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No Dupes though.
He's gone IMO. He'll get 4 mil on a longterm contract. We can't come close to that.

Jokinen is a great utility forward who can help alleviate losing Dupes.

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04-22-2013, 12:47 AM
  #471
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Here's a crazy idea...what about trading Kunitz while his value's at an all-time high in the off-season - before he can command a deal we can't afford in the summer of 2014 - if we re-sign Morrow, Iggy, Dupes, and Cooke?

Bennett - Crosby - Iginla
Morrow - Malkin - Neal
Jokinen - Sutter - Dupuis
Cooke - Vitale - Adams

That's still a very deep, versatile line-up.

Pretty clear his huge numbers are a product of Crosby, and we could conceivably get a Top 10 pick for him at this point. From an asset management perspective, it could make sense.

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04-22-2013, 01:07 AM
  #472
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Here's a crazy idea...what about trading Kunitz while his value's at an all-time high in the off-season - before he can command a deal we can't afford in the summer of 2014 - if we re-sign Morrow, Iggy, Dupes, and Cooke?

Bennett - Crosby - Iginla
Morrow - Malkin - Neal
Jokinen - Sutter - Dupuis
Cooke - Vitale - Adams

That's still a very deep, versatile line-up.

Pretty clear his huge numbers are a product of Crosby, and we could conceivably get a Top 10 pick for him at this point. From an asset management perspective, it could make sense.
I was thinking the same thing. Although im not sure about a top 10 pick..

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04-22-2013, 07:31 AM
  #473
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Kunitz seems like a guy who will keep signing short term deals on the cheap to stay with a contender and playing with Sid.

The offseason is pretty simple to me. You get Malkin and Letang resigned. Make Dupuis your best offer. If he goes to free agency, thank him for his time here and move on. Let Cooke walk. Trade Kennedy. Resign Iggy for anything reasonable. Offer Morrow a cheap one year deal. Figure out the defense for next year and if Murray is a guy that fits in.

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04-22-2013, 08:13 AM
  #474
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Kunitz seems like a guy who will keep signing short term deals on the cheap to stay with a contender and playing with Sid.

The offseason is pretty simple to me. You get Malkin and Letang resigned. Make Dupuis your best offer. If he goes to free agency, thank him for his time here and move on. Let Cooke walk. Trade Kennedy. Resign Iggy for anything reasonable. Offer Morrow a cheap one year deal. Figure out the defense for next year and if Murray is a guy that fits in.
I'm starting to wonder if they will let Cooke walk because of the trouble his name seems to keep causing for the org, even though he has cleaned up his game.

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04-22-2013, 08:15 AM
  #475
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I'm starting to wonder if they will let Cooke walk because of the trouble his name seems to keep causing for the org, even though he has cleaned up his game.
He might be gone regardless. If we look at it from a pure value standpoint, he's about the least essential FA forward. And I like what he brings.

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