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The Worst GDT Ever Again: Devils visit Rangers 3pm

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Old
04-21-2013, 06:25 PM
  #1
EastonBlues22
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The Worst GDT Ever Again: Devils visit Rangers 3pm

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04-21-2013, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor Zach View Post
It was one of the big problems this year. There's no denying it.

This team is absolutely in the playoffs with a Lundqvist goalie on a team that plays in a Deboer system. Not even a doubt about that.

I'm really not trying to bury Marty as I've loved him more than any sports player, but this laissez-faire approach to him has reached the endpoint for me.
Lundqvist wouldn't save us, ever since those two Pittsburgh games, we have had 11 games where we have scored only 1 goal or worse shutout. You're talking about a goalie getting 11 shutouts this season + not including the games before the two Pittsburgh games.

try thinking more like a goalie that has won a Hart Trophy.

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04-21-2013, 06:26 PM
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Sir Fenwick Corsi
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To all the Brodeur haters, just look back at at 2007 and 2008. Yeah, maybe a still in his prime Marty steals this team a few more points and somehow squeaks them into the postseason, but guess what? The team is still mediocre just the same way it was 5 and 7 years ago. Those "playoff" teams got exposed as such when the games began to matter and Marty couldn't do a damn thing about it. It always goes far beyond goaltending.

As for the team, I'm not going to be one of those people that say blow the whole thing up, but this team needs to get better over the off season. There is no way around it. It was an extremely frustrating year to say the least, but can we really be all that surprised that this happened, especially in a 48 game season. The red flag was there from the very start when Parise left to go play boyfriend, and Lou had Butler, Josefson and Tedenby waiting in the wings. Never mind these guys panning out, you also had to assume that no one significant would either underachieve or get hurt. Well it never went right in any of those departments and here we are. It is what it is. Hard to be too upset about it when **** really hit the fan weeks ago.

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04-21-2013, 06:28 PM
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Right, and even with a Vezina caliber goalie in Rinne, Nashville STILL isn't in the playoffs (they're worse off than us and they have a better defensive core).. why? because they can't score a goal to save their lives.

Defense is incredibly important but useless without some semblance of offense.

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04-21-2013, 06:29 PM
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Did anybody ask Deboer about the Volch decision?

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04-21-2013, 06:29 PM
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04-21-2013, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilChuk View Post
Right, and even with a Vezina caliber goalie in Rinne, Nashville STILL isn't in the playoffs (they're worse off than us and they have a better defensive core).. why? because they can't score a goal to save their lives.

Defense is incredibly important but useless without some semblance of offense.
Rinne's fault? Only if his save % were .2 better.

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04-21-2013, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by nona weisbaum View Post
To all the Brodeur haters, just look back at at 2007 and 2008. Yeah, maybe a still in his prime Marty steals this team a few more points and somehow squeaks them into the postseason, but guess what? The team is still mediocre just the same way it was 5 and 7 years ago. Those "playoff" teams got exposed as such when the games began to matter and Marty couldn't do a damn thing about it. It always goes far beyond goaltending.

As for the team, I'm not going to be one of those people that say blow the whole thing up, but this team needs to get better over the off season. There is no way around it. It was an extremely frustrating year to say the least, but can we really be all that surprised that this happened, especially in a 48 game season. The red flag was there from the very start when Parise left to go play boyfriend, and Lou had Butler, Josefson and Tedenby waiting in the wings. Never mind these guys panning out, you also had to assume that no one significant would either underachieve or get hurt. Well it never went right in any of those departments and here we are. It is what it is. Hard to be too upset about it when **** really hit the fan weeks ago.
Nona. He's turning 41. That was then. This is now. Totally different scenarios.

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04-21-2013, 06:30 PM
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I wish I was mad.

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04-21-2013, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Luke3026 View Post
Did anybody ask Deboer about the Volch decision?
I cannot understand this one thing still.

I mean, this is the coach that doesn't like to change up his line-up if they are in a winning streak... even if those players coming out aren't helping at all..

Then in the midst of a winning streak that is the only shot at the playoffs.. he completely changes the line-up.

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04-21-2013, 06:31 PM
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Nona. He's turning 41. That was then. This is now. Totally different scenarios.
He's lost a step for sure, but you're seriously kidding yourself if you think he cost this team a post season birth. I mean ****, he wasn't even a part of the team for a 1/3 of the season.

My point still stands. This is an average team considering the injuries, departures and underachievers. Goaltending is way down on the list. Putting Brodeur in his prime on this team doesn't change any of that.

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04-21-2013, 06:31 PM
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Traitor Zach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilChuk View Post
Right, and even with a Vezina caliber goalie in Rinne, Nashville STILL isn't in the playoffs (they're worse off than us and they have a better defensive core).. why? because they can't score a goal to save their lives.

Defense is incredibly important but useless without some semblance of offense.
When have I ever denied that. I hate our offense right now. But anybody who just gives Brodeur a pass at this point, is asking for another losing season next year.

Goaltending is an issue we have to tackle this offseason. I am so emphatic about this I am convulsing as I type.

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04-21-2013, 06:32 PM
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PDB needs to cut the crap with his loyalty to the vets. Volch has been absolutely dreadful and yet he sticks with him over Fayne. Volch better be gone.

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04-21-2013, 06:32 PM
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We certainly need to grab a younger kid who can play 30-35 games if possible but I see no reason why Marty can't play 40-50 games next year.

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04-21-2013, 06:33 PM
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Traitor Zach to answer your question about Marty's save percentage in the last thread. A 900 save percentage is not good. Most of the reason it's that low is because he faces so few shots. Now you can't expect just because the team gives up under 15 shots a game that there will only be a couple good chances. Another reason his save percentage is where it is is because of our PK. His even strength save percentage is pretty good.

If you look at other goalies on teams with notoriously bad PK'S like Pavelec, and Markstrom they also have low save percentages.

At least once a game it seems Marty lets in a goal that is deflected or changes direction in front. These are impossible to stop, and I know from experience. It's in the back of the net before you realize it changed directions. Marty heard that PING when it hit the post before he even realized the shot wasn't coming the way it was aimed. Only way to stop those are if it hits you.

Also Marty is part of the reason he faces so few shots. Look at how many games this year he faced under 20 shots, or under 15, and look at how many games Hedberg did. Hedberg never played a complete game where the team allowed less than 20 shots this year. Marty's stickhandling breaks up in zone time, and cuts down on the amount of chances the other team gets. Watching him is enough to know this.

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04-21-2013, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilChuk View Post
Right, and even with a Vezina caliber goalie in Rinne, Nashville STILL isn't in the playoffs (they're worse off than us and they have a better defensive core).. why? because they can't score a goal to save their lives.

Defense is incredibly important but useless without some semblance of offense.
That was the point I was making in the other thread. Rinne's in his 'prime', they also have a franchise defenseman and Nashville's a top five lottery team because their offense is just as crappy as ours.

And people keep harping on Marty's save percentage, how about other goalies' save percentage against us? What is it like .950? (I'm not exaggerating much). Save percentage doesn't tell how many goals you allow or score though. I've seen plenty of crappy goalies have a .915-.920 save percentage cause they get a high volume of shots.

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04-21-2013, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by nona weisbaum View Post
He's lost a step for sure, but you're seriously kidding yourself if you think he cost this team a post season birth. I mean ****, he wasn't even a part of the team for a 1/3 of the season.
The entire team cost themselves a chance at the berth (Lou and Deboer included).

He's a part of the problem. I don't see what's so harsh about that. He's old. He's slow. He's not that good anymore. He's maybe a #1b type of goalie. His save% is brutal.

People keep harping on the offense, but that's been known since Zach signed elsewhere. The Brodeur issue was bubbling up even the last two seasons and was something a majority of us kept talking about out of concern until we got hot in the playoffs and made a run with Marty getting hot seemingly for a couple rounds.

I'm not saying we need to bury the guy, but we need to acknowledge reality.

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04-21-2013, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
Traitor Zach to answer your question about Marty's save percentage in the last thread. A 900 save percentage is not good. Most of the reason it's that low is because he faces so few shots. Now you can't expect just because the team gives up under 15 shots a game that there will only be a couple good chances. Another reason his save percentage is where it is is because of our PK. His even strength save percentage is pretty good.

If you look at other goalies on teams with notoriously bad PK'S like Pavelec, and Markstrom they also have low save percentages.

At least once a game it seems Marty lets in a goal that is deflected or changes direction in front. These are impossible to stop, and I know from experience. It's in the back of the net before you realize it changed directions. Marty heard that PING when it hit the post before he even realized the shot wasn't coming the way it was aimed. Only way to stop those are if it hits you.

Also Marty is part of the reason he faces so few shots. Look at how many games this year he faced under 20 shots, or under 15, and look at how many games Hedberg did. Hedberg never played a complete game where the team allowed less than 20 shots this year. Marty's stickhandling breaks up in zone time, and cuts down on the amount of chances the other team gets. Watching him is enough to know this.
So what you are really trying to say is, 1-3-1.

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04-21-2013, 06:36 PM
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That was the point I was making in the other thread. Rinne's in his 'prime', they also have a franchise defenseman and Nashville's a top five lottery team because their offense is just as crappy as ours.

And people keep harping on Marty's save percentage, how about other goalies' save percentage against us? What is it like .950? (I'm not exaggerating much). Save percentage doesn't tell how many goals you allow. I've seen plenty of crappy goalies have a .915-.920 save percentage cause they get a high volume of shots.
Save % means nothing to me when you have two players covering one opposing player and they STILL let him tip in a deflection in front of the goalie. I mean how can you play that soft and expect to win games?


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04-21-2013, 06:36 PM
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Goaltending is a problem, but scoring is a bigger one. With a better goalie, we'd have lost games 1-0 instead of 3-0. That'd be cool I guess. But with better offense, we're in the playoffs right now. So prioritizing, in the offseason if its EITHER a forward or two that can score OR a better goalie, I'd opt for the former. In a perfect world we get both, but that's unlikely.

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04-21-2013, 06:37 PM
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I firmly believe if we had another goalie in net for this team like Lundqvist or whoever, that he would have a higher save percentage, and face more shots, but that the GAA would be about the same as Marty's is.

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04-21-2013, 06:38 PM
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Listen, I really like a lot of you on this forum and I'm really emotional about this team as we all are. I don't try to get personal with anyone or throw tons of F-bombs.

I just think there is an elephant in the room here that people keep ignoring or have been for a couple years.

Maybe I'm the one who is wrong, and I hope I am, but I don't think I am, especially for our chances at success for next season.

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04-21-2013, 06:39 PM
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He is facing literally 10-15 shots a game in that stretch. Maybe 30-40% of those are quality ones.

We are outplaying our opponents consistently and the puck possession differential is bordering on mind-blowing proportions.

Is it too hard to ask for better than a .900 save %? That's what I keep coming back to. Just answer that. Please. With all due respect. I just want someone to answer that. You can break down GAA all you want, when you are a goalie, the save % is the holy grail of how a goalie is judged. Pure and simple.
So with that logic, Marty has been an average career goalie notably in the years he won the cup when his save % hovered around .900-.910

We scored 16 goals in that 10 game stretch, three games we didn't score at all, twice we scored once - that is half of that stretch right there with no offense

Goals are going to go in, it's just the way things work, there is only so much a goalie can do when the team in front of him can't put the puck in the net

You can't win hockey games when you can't score more than the other team, let alone score at all

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04-21-2013, 06:40 PM
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The two Callahan goals were not soft.

They were embarrassing bad.

I called for Moose to start the two msg games not because he gives us a better chance to win.
But because I knew we would get
Thoroughly outclassed by a more talented team.

I hate seeing our HOF franchise goalie mocked and embarrassed at that pit in front of our AHL and washed up defense.

Marty deserves better.
Pete should start moose or Kinkaid this Saturday.

Lundquist clearly is at a few higher levels than Marty now.
Father Time has caught up to the best ever.

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04-21-2013, 06:42 PM
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So what you are really trying to say is, 1-3-1.
In all honesty a defensive system I don't think truly helps a goalie as much as it's believed.

It works wonders for garbage backups like Brian Elliott in St Louis, but it's also hurt Jaro Halak in St Louis who has 3 shutouts this year, but a below 900 save percentage I'm pretty sure. And he's played like 10 games.

In a defensive system you never truly get in a groove at all. You could face 2 shots in a period, and then a total onslaught if your team goes on the PK, or at anytime really. Now we don't play a defensive system, but we do play a system that keeps play out of the defensive zone for the most part. Of which Marty is a big part, and he was during the trap years too.

In the years 98-99 to 01-02 Brodeur had a 906 save percentage for 3 of those 4 years, and a 910 in the other which was 99-00. It's hard to expect a 40 year old to play at a level he did when he was in his 20s. He also faced a minute amount of shots those years as well.

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