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2013 Draft Discussion Part 2

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Old
04-21-2013, 07:37 PM
  #901
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
A 19 year old is going to come right from Sweden, play a position he's never really played before, and on the first line? Not only is that a ridiculous assumption, but you would have 3 guys on one line who are similar, puck possession players.
I was under the impression he was a LW? And already playing in a men's league over there? Oh well there goes that thought.

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04-21-2013, 07:39 PM
  #902
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I was under the impression he was a LW? And already playing in a men's league over there? Oh well there goes that thought.
I believe he is a natural C who can play RW, and that he doesn't necessarily project as NHL-ready.

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04-21-2013, 08:08 PM
  #903
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Edm up 1-0 let's let's go
Oil!

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04-21-2013, 08:34 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
I think we end up with Lindholm and I am 100 pct ok with that. He would fit in very well next season on the top line LW spot. Maybe we can move another peice for a later 1st and get a Zadarov, Ristolainen, Pulock type.
1st line next season? Doesnt sound like the Flyers way of bringing in rookies slow. :p

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04-21-2013, 09:42 PM
  #905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
A 19 year old is going to come right from Sweden, play a position he's never really played before, and on the first line? Not only is that a ridiculous assumption, but you would have 3 guys on one line who are similar, puck possession players.
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
I was under the impression he was a LW? And already playing in a men's league over there? Oh well there goes that thought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I believe he is a natural C who can play RW, and that he doesn't necessarily project as NHL-ready.
Don't know if he is NHL ready but he has played center and RW so he would not be out of position. If he does put up close to a ppg again though, I can easy see him coming over after next season. Don't know if he would be on the first line but he surely isnt a 4th line forward.

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04-21-2013, 10:38 PM
  #906
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I don't see us picking a forward I guess.

If we end up in a spot around 7-8 and nurse is gone when its our time to pick, I wouldn't be surprised if we made a deal with a team like Columbus to move down for multiple picks and grab 1 or 2 guya like Zadorov, Ristolainen or Pulock or one of them plus a winger.

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04-21-2013, 10:43 PM
  #907
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I don't see us picking a forward I guess.

If we end up in a spot around 7-8 and nurse is gone when its our time to pick, I wouldn't be surprised if we made a deal with a team like Columbus to move down for multiple picks and grab 1 or 2 guya like Zadorov, Ristolainen or Pulock or one of them plus a winger.
The way things are going, Columbus won't have a pick in the lottery, so that is a significant drop down. Pulock might still be there--but not the other two.

I wouldn't mind sliding back a spot or two if they are confident, but I think the safest course is to pick the best player. I'm hoping it isn't Lindholm, but you really never know what the future is going to bring.

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04-21-2013, 10:54 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
The way things are going, Columbus won't have a pick in the lottery, so that is a significant drop down. Pulock might still be there--but not the other two.

I wouldn't mind sliding back a spot or two if they are confident, but I think the safest course is to pick the best player. I'm hoping it isn't Lindholm, but you really never know what the future is going to bring.
You mean they hope they don't take Lindholm or a defender falls so we dont have to (or that he would be taken already).

I honestly think we will be right where Lindholm will be taken, if not by us, someone right around us. I can't see Lindholm falling out of the top 10.

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04-21-2013, 11:41 PM
  #909
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You mean they hope they don't take Lindholm or a defender falls so we dont have to (or that he would be taken already).

I honestly think we will be right where Lindholm will be taken, if not by us, someone right around us. I can't see Lindholm falling out of the top 10.
Yes. No. Both?

I believe we will pick between 7 and 9--but admittedly that could all change tomorrow.

If it is 7, then we should have at least two of Nurse, Nichushkin, Lindholm, and Monahan on the board--assuming that Jones, Mackinnon, Drouin, and Barkov are the top four.

At 8, we may well be left with one of them--as well as the option of Zadorov or Ristolainen. Lindholm would seem the most likely to slip to that point--with perhaps the exception of Nichushkin simply due to the Russian factor. I think I'd prefer they take Nichushkin to Lindholm (assuming that they are confident that they will get him in 2015), but I'm not as sure about Lindholm vs. the two remaining defenseman.

At 9, if everyone goes according to script (unlikely), we would be left with the simpler choice between the two defensemen.

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04-22-2013, 08:06 AM
  #910
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Yes. No. Both?

I believe we will pick between 7 and 9--but admittedly that could all change tomorrow.

If it is 7, then we should have at least two of Nurse, Nichushkin, Lindholm, and Monahan on the board--assuming that Jones, Mackinnon, Drouin, and Barkov are the top four.

At 8, we may well be left with one of them--as well as the option of Zadorov or Ristolainen. Lindholm would seem the most likely to slip to that point--with perhaps the exception of Nichushkin simply due to the Russian factor. I think I'd prefer they take Nichushkin to Lindholm (assuming that they are confident that they will get him in 2015), but I'm not as sure about Lindholm vs. the two remaining defenseman.

At 9, if everyone goes according to script (unlikely), we would be left with the simpler choice between the two defensemen.
If Lindholm is left at 8, I would see if there was someone willing to trade up to get him. Maybe Columbus's GM Kekalainen might really like him enough to give up two of their firsts to get him, which is a deal I would definitely do. The Flyers would probably then miss out of Ristolainen and Zadorov but might still get Pulock or Morrissey and then Hagg or Muller later. I could see the Flyers doing the same type deal for Nichuskin, even though I personally would take him at 8. Not so sure the Flyers would though.

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04-22-2013, 09:27 AM
  #911
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Relatively light day in Tank Watch 2013:

Quote:
Winnipeg v. Buffalo
Phoenix v. Detroit
Anaheim v. Edmonton
- We really need Buffalo to pick up a win tonight. Their last two games are tricky (@PIT, NYI), and they are only one point ahead of us (and we will own the tiebreaker).

- It is less likely that we catch PHX. They've got three more points and a game in hand. That's basically a play-out game for them in the West.

- Edmonton is reverting to their typical tank form. They are two points "behind" us in the standings with a game in hand, but we'll own the tiebreak, so they need three more points than us in the last few games. That's a big ask from a team that doesn't seem to care, and Anaheim can clinch the division with a win.

EDIT: At this point, I've near given up hope of jumping to 6th or 7th. Solidifying the 8th spot might be our best bet.

Also of note, there's growing speculation on FLA's board that the team will pick one of the two Halifax guys at #1 overall. Tallon has apparently been up there most of the weekend. Surprisingly, though, it seems like Drouin might be the pick over Mackinnon. That would seem a mistake for a team who already has a talented top-line winger in Huberdeau.

Today's Completely Pointless Mock Draft:
Quote:
1. FLA - Mackinnon / Drouin
2. COL - Jones
3. TBL - Mackinnon / Drouin (Drouin as heir to St. Louis?)
4. NSH - Barkov (they'd love this, I'd think)
5. CAR - Nichushkin (They did just sign Semin to a long-term extension--but I could see them going Nurse)
6. EDM - Monahan (though, again, I could see them going Nurse)
7. CGY - Lindholm
8. PHI - Nurse
- If CAR takes Nurse, I think Nichushkin falls to us (EDM would take Monahan, and I can't see CGY waiting two years on Nichushkin)
- If CAR takes Nichushkin and EDM takes Nurse, then CGY takes Monahan and Lindholm falls to us.


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Old
04-22-2013, 09:28 AM
  #912
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Did anyone else notice that the Ducks and Oilers played back to back games, with both being in Edmonton?

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04-22-2013, 09:44 AM
  #913
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Did anyone else notice that the Ducks and Oilers played back to back games, with both being in Edmonton?
Yeah I saw it a couple days ago, thought it was strange as well.

Sad part is the Oilers will lose both of them.

Can't stand Edmonton and their tanking ways.

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04-22-2013, 01:09 PM
  #914
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Say that EDM and CGY win a few and PHI and PHX do not. Say PHI ends up at #6 and PHX at #10

Say Jones is the only D off the board at #6 and PHI is on the clock.

PHX calls and offers #10 and #40 for #6 and #67.

Would you guys go for that?

Means PHX DEFINITELY goes F at #6 and you've only got to wait for #7, #8, and #9 to pick before you can take your D at #10. Good chance only one D goes in that span if Nichushkin and Shinkaruk go in those three picks. This would give Philly potentially their 3rd ranked D and TWO picks in the first ten selections in the 2nd round (their own and Phoenix's).

Close to fair?

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04-22-2013, 01:11 PM
  #915
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Say that EDM and CGY win a few and PHI and PHX do not. Say PHI ends up at #6 and PHX at #10

Say Jones is the only D off the board at #6 and PHI is on the clock.

PHX calls and offers #10 and #40 for #6 and #67.

Would you guys go for that? Means PHX DEFINITELY goes F at #6 and you've only got to wait for #7, #8, and #9 to pick before you can take your D at #10. Good chance only one D goes in that span if Nichushkin and Shinkaruk go in those three picks. This would give Philly potentially their 3rd ranked D and TWO picks in the first ten selections in the 2nd round (their own and Phoenix's).

Close to fair?
The thing is, at #6/#7, Nurse would be there as well, and he is someone the Flyers would be REALLY high on, I would think. As we are, we would need someone like Nurse BADLY.

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04-22-2013, 01:16 PM
  #916
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Quote:
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Say that EDM and CGY win a few and PHI and PHX do not. Say PHI ends up at #6 and PHX at #10

Say Jones is the only D off the board at #6 and PHI is on the clock.

PHX calls and offers #10 and #40 for #6 and #67.

Would you guys go for that?

Means PHX DEFINITELY goes F at #6 and you've only got to wait for #7, #8, and #9 to pick before you can take your D at #10. Good chance only one D goes in that span if Nichushkin and Shinkaruk go in those three picks. This would give Philly potentially their 3rd ranked D and TWO picks in the first ten selections in the 2nd round (their own and Phoenix's).

Close to fair?
I'm not sure about the value--it seems a little light on PHX's end--though only a little.

On the deal itself, it really depends how the top-5 goes. If Nurse is on the board, I doubt that the Flyers would do it--because he wouldn't last to 10, and the extra 2nd rounder (minus the 3rd round prospect) wouldn't likely be enough incentive to downgrade from Nurse to Zadorov / Ristolainen.

If the top 5 is Jones, Mackinnon, Drouin, Barkov, and Nurse, and the next best players are three forwards (Nichushkin, Monahan, Lindholm), then it might make sense.

EDIT: Just re-read the OP: if Nurse Jones is the only D of the board, then no, I don't think the Flyers would do it.

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04-22-2013, 01:40 PM
  #917
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I think the only way we trade down is if there's a prospect coming our way.

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04-22-2013, 01:45 PM
  #918
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If Lindholm is on the board at your pick, would you trade it straight up for Brandon Gormley? He's about NHL ready, and about as accomplished and decorated amateur career as you could hope for.

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04-22-2013, 01:51 PM
  #919
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If Lindholm is on the board at your pick, would you trade it straight up for Brandon Gormley? He's about NHL ready, and about as accomplished and decorated amateur career as you could hope for.
It would depend on who else was on the board, I suppose, but I've long advocated at least considering this course.

There are other variables as well: we have no idea whether the Flyers are one of the teams that would take a gamble on Nichushkin, but if they are, they might choose to find their PMD some other way; if they are willing to shop the 7th overall (for example), there might be other buyers, and depending on what we would need to add, I'd prefer a more proven commodity like Kulikov (if FLA defies the rumors and takes Jones) over Gormley.

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04-22-2013, 01:55 PM
  #920
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If Lindholm is on the board at your pick, would you trade it straight up for Brandon Gormley? He's about NHL ready, and about as accomplished and decorated amateur career as you could hope for.
I would much rather just try as hard as we could and move up two spots(around 6th overall) and draft Nurse. Nurse is the physical specimen we have been dying for on our blue line for a long long time. Gormley, while being a pretty good prospect, has some questions. He suffered a few injuries along the line. He really isn't a physical player either. He does provide some decent height, but compared to Nurse and Nurse's potential, I would make the move for him way before I contemplate that move.

Also if I am trading our pick this year, it's not for a prospect. We can get one of our own with the pick, I want a more established defender.

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04-22-2013, 02:01 PM
  #921
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Also if I am trading our pick this year, it's not for a prospect. We can get one of our own with the pick, I want a more established defender.
Eh, I dunno. I guess it depends what you mean by established--but there's certainly a logic in moving the pick for a prospect if you believe the prospect has equal or higher upside than the defenseman that you would take in that slow (and is further along in his development to boot).

For example, say we're picking 8th and the big-name forwards and top-2 defenseman are off the board Consensus says Lindholm, Ristolainen, or Zadorov would be the pick, but PHX calls and offers Gormley straight across for that pick.

It isn't unreasonable to suggest that Zadorov/Ristolainen and Gormely have similar upsides (2/3-types), and Gormely is obviously more developed. What's the downside to that move?


Last edited by Jack de la Hoya: 04-22-2013 at 02:04 PM. Reason: simplified hypothetical
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04-22-2013, 02:05 PM
  #922
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Eh, I dunno. I guess it depends what you mean by established--but there's certainly a logic in moving the pick for a prospect if you believe the prospect has equal or higher upside than the defenseman that you would take in that slow (and is further along in his development to boot).

For example, say we're picking 9th and someone jumped a bit and took Zadorov, and Jones, Mackinnon, Drouin, Barkov, Nichushkin, Monahan, and Nurse are off the board. Consensus says Lindholm is BPA, Ristolainen is next, and PHX offers Gormley straight across for that pick.

It isn't unreasonable to suggest that Ristolainen and Gormely have similar upsides, and Gormely is obviously more developed. What's the downside to that move?
The whole problem with this scenario though is how the Flyers value him. They could project one of the defenders or even forwards higher than Gormley, which would make more sense in keeping the pick and taking the player. That's why these ideas are complicated, because nobody knows how the Flyers value other teams players. That's why I say if we move that pick, go for a established player. Gormley might even bust and become nothing but a bottom pairing dman, we would then look like fools. At least trading for an established defender, we wouldn't have that risk.

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04-22-2013, 02:14 PM
  #923
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The whole problem with this scenario though is how the Flyers value him. They could project one of the defenders or even forwards higher than Gormley, which would make more sense in keeping the pick and taking the player. That's why these ideas are complicated, because nobody knows how the Flyers value other teams players. That's why I say if we move that pick, go for a established player. Gormley might even bust and become nothing but a bottom pairing dman, we would then look like fools. At least trading for an established defender, we wouldn't have that risk.
What sort of established defenseman do you think you can get for the 7th straight-up?

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04-22-2013, 02:17 PM
  #924
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What sort of established defenseman do you think you can get for the 7th straight-up?
It wouldn't just be our pick. I would also include other players and picks/prospects. It's a much safer play making a deal for an already established NHLer than moving that pick for a prospect still. It wouldn't just be the 7/8th overall going back, but it will help this team in the short and long run more than trading it for Gormley.

Now I honestly can't say who will be available, nobody does yet. I'm not talking Weber or Peity, but some other defenders who teams might be in a cap crunch or looking to change things up.

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04-22-2013, 04:26 PM
  #925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Say that EDM and CGY win a few and PHI and PHX do not. Say PHI ends up at #6 and PHX at #10

Say Jones is the only D off the board at #6 and PHI is on the clock.

PHX calls and offers #10 and #40 for #6 and #67.

Would you guys go for that?

Means PHX DEFINITELY goes F at #6 and you've only got to wait for #7, #8, and #9 to pick before you can take your D at #10. Good chance only one D goes in that span if Nichushkin and Shinkaruk go in those three picks. This would give Philly potentially their 3rd ranked D and TWO picks in the first ten selections in the 2nd round (their own and Phoenix's).

Close to fair?
Make it the #10 and Gormley for #6 and #67 and I think it's something the Flyers would seriously consider.

As for Gormley's injuries, one was a knee, one was his foot and the other was his neck. Nothing with regards to concussions and he's developing very nicely down in Portland. He's the youngest regular defenseman on the roster (just turned 21 in February) and is playing big minutes. Add him to the number 10 pick and the Flyers have helped revamp the defense pipeline. If the Flyers don't end up with Nurse, then the consolation prizes of Ristolainen or Zadorov are not very bad consolation prizes at all.

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